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night_on_earth
Hired Hero
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posted September 15, 2006 04:25 PM |
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war machines and tactics
I hope this was not beaten to death before. At least I did not manage to find it in the library despite excessive use of the search function.
What are possible applications for war machines beside their obvious purpose? I list some advantages and disadvantages which came to my mind.
Advantages
1. Protection for shooters or other "sensible" troops (asymmetrical for attacker and defender).
2. Soaks up damage from chain lightning.
3. War machines often attract the AI, which can be benefitial in narrow fights.
4. Even when the last stack is blinded, the hero can flee if he controls at least one war machine.
Side question: How for God's sake can the AI flee in this situation by using an ammo cart?
Disadvantages
1. Together with obstacles, war machines can severly hamper your troop's movement on the battlefield. (1)
2. Target for area spells like "frost ring" or area attacks like liches "death cloud".
3. A ballista without the artillery skill can unblind an enemy stack.
4. Creatures with a 2-hex attack can deal damage "through" a war machine to an enemy stack without retaliation.
5. A first aid tent without the according skill can impede battle tactics for demon farming or the sacrifice spell (highly unlikely but possible).
What are your tactics concerning war machines?
(1) In one of my last games the opponent's heavy walkers were completely stuck between his war machines and battlefield obstacles. I blocked five stacks with one troop while taking out his shooters with my main army.
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night on earth
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 26, 2007 04:10 AM |
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I wanted to thank everybody who contributed to this thread. It's given me inspiration to take my game to new levels, as well as shown me some interesting things. I have a whole new respect for Force Field now  I'm not a good player, though I should be. I can't really add anything except MAYBE the following:
Luna. Say what you will about the Conflux, but I have yet to see a hero more self reliant than Luna. If you ever see her, buy her. Even if she only comes with a single fairy, she can conquer much of the world. She won't be up for fighting against other humans. Creatures with immunity to fire/2nd level magic she will have to leave behind. She won't be able to take on fliers until she has at least Advanced Fire (she comes with Basic Fire). She won't be able to take on archers until she can get mass Forgetfulness. There are a couple other oddities such as Pit Lords that will resurrect each other IN the Fire Wall, or Master Genies, who can grant each other immunity.
Why Luna? She comes with Fire Wall and a specialty whereby her FW is doubled. Get the Orb of Impetuous Fire and the bonus is applied AFTER her specialty, giving her a triple FW. That aside, she still starts off with an 80 point FW, and each spell Power point makes it hotter. Why do I say even if she only comes with one fairy? If you have a single, weak stack, it will be easier to hide behind your own walls. Being weak, the enemy will split off into as many as 7 stacks, effectively amplifying how deep the FW will burn. If you choose no other skills, she's guaranteed to have Advanced Fire within three levels, making her wall 3 hexes. Which will allow her to take on fliers and even crypts by hiding the fairy against the left edge of the battlefield.
Sure you'll have to keep her magic charged and stop at nothing to poost her Power rating. But in one game, I took down lots of Mighty Gorgons in week 2 or 3 with a couple dozen Sprites thanks to their double width and taking damage from two separate walls at the same time. They were guarding the Orb of Impetuous Fire, which allowed her to take down Dwarven Holds and Naga Banks with the same couple dozen Sprites. With Luna, LESS is more
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted March 30, 2007 11:51 AM |
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I have not read all the tactics in this post but did read all the important ones and must say are very creative.I think dreamrest u have a point there about luna.
To be honest i don't use magic heroes as main but i use them as power scouts. Luna, Deemer,Alamar aslin and solmyr are my fav scouts.
I will share what hero selections i look for in my gameplay.This one is what i use or prefer to use in a jebus xl temp:
Heroes i look for :
1) Main will be a babarian preferbly craig or any super might with 5% bonuses as tazar, meph and so on.
2) 2-4 scouts(i.e with basic or advance scouting and with heroes with log or path as start), 1 Scholar and 2-4 magic heroes.
3) 2 magic heroes will be sent to follow the roads to other towns while the scouts sent for the unchartered feild.
4)Scholar will explore road while visiting the shrine( lookin for slow and haste at most cases).
5) 2 magic heroes i would love to have is luna and deemer .
These heroes are great for clearing out some tough gaurds and blocks. I have some pictures of a couple of week1 battles i had with luna, first to clear road and get a arti gaurded by lots swordsmen and then the second to take a dweling and a box and a few more things cramped together. It was a dirt road in tat map which i find the probabilty is more to have displaced arties and crop of things gaurded by one powerful stack which in this case was throng dendroids.
In the last scenario, i did not even have to use all my mana, and they are very effective.
If in case u can't get the job done the first time u can always retreat fill up and go with it again. These hereos are also very effective to weaken gaurds so that the main can finish off.
In temps like jebus ofcourse there is a 1 hero limit to scout the strength of border gaurds and these heroes are excelent for that too, as luna can do huge damage to hydras and less slow units as deemer and solomyr can kill a considerable amount usin their special skill.
The poor mans teleport is very vital in most maps and could be used to your advantage in many situations.If u have a good chain, then ur main can be bought back at any point of that chain if a town i present.
When playin a random map its very vital that u use everything u have to an advantage.From ur heroes as shown above to terrain and other options as poor mans teleport.
Gurnison and arlich can also be expert scouts as they have a good speciality and coupled with a speed unit can clear a great deal of the map of small critters gaurding resource piles. Ofcourse gurni rocks for main anytime  .
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 30, 2007 12:15 PM |
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Edited by Demarest at 12:16, 30 Mar 2007.
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Quote:
oops clearly im useless at trying to load pics lol, how do i upload pics to my posts, help
You could use http://imageshack.us It's free to use and you don't have to sign up. Go there and upload a pic from your PC (sometimes it's slow). When it's done, it will show you several fields with code in them. I think the last one is called direct link to image. Click on that and it will automatically highlight the entire address. Copy it by pressing CTRL+C, then in your post here, when it asks you for the address, paste it there by pressing CTRL+V. Obviously it's a lot easier if you have two browsers open, or if you're using Firefox, two tabs. Hope that helps
Luna's specialty doesn't lend her to a main hero. If I ever pick her to start, my "main" hero might not even be bought until the second week. At which point, they usually can set out with JUST four Firebirds and tackle any Crypt or Crucible they find, and usually the Stores as well. Meanwhile, Luna's just chugging along fighting anything and everything she can, going for power anywhere she can get it because it raises the bar on what she can fight. Once you have Advanced Fire Magic (I usually won't choose ANY secondary skill for her except maybe Intelligence until she gets Advanced), you can take on fliers. Or even sooner if you're faster than them. Just wait first turn, fly as far as you can, then at the start of the second turn, hide in the bottom right corner, which fits her wall perfectly Once she has Expert Forgetfulness, she can even take on shooters. Only real trick is against double width creatures. You have to be careful not to be next to the Fire Wall, but leave a one hex gap. Second round, if you need to, you can fill the gap with a second wall and they will still come at you, taking two wall's worth of damage (which with Luna, is effectively Fire Wall x4!) even though they wouldn't've first round if you were up against it. Other than that, it's just a matter of taking the amounts of enemies you find, dividing them by seven, and deciding if you can take them with a single wall or two.
Did you know that the Orb of Tempestuous fire figures in AFTER her special? Which effectively gives her triple Fire Wall damage!
It doesn't matter if you start with Luna or not. If you find her, hire her. She can clear out the entire area around where you hire her all by herself She's my favorite toy hero.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted March 30, 2007 01:53 PM |
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Thanks demarest, is working fine now. Read the post again demarest its almost fully complete now .
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Demarest
Known Hero
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posted March 30, 2007 03:12 PM |
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Looking good.
You would've liked a map I played a couple days ago. In the first week, she was able to drop the defender of a Pandora's Box. Inside were 35 Fire Elementals. Which of course are immune to Fire Wall  So I passed her Fairies off to a scout and she actually eliminated an opponent before the end of first week. It was nice having the Fires because then her magic lasted longer as I could actually just fight all lesser fights. All of this was for free
If she gets +4 Power and Expert Fire, she can even take on a full Imp Crucible by herself. For the low price of 12 magic points. And of course as her Power gets higher, what she can knock off by herself grows. Even with just the one Fairy she might come with.
If you actually start with Conflux, she's more flexible if you can upgrade the Fairies to Sprites day one since the high speed and no retaliation will let her take on slower enemies sometimes without having to use Fire Wall. Saves magic points. Of course, don't build the Upgraded Lantern if you weren't given the Altar of Air, or else you won't be able to build the Pyre week one.
Okay, I'll get off my Luna kick now. I've just never heard anybody else cover how sick and self-sufficient she is.
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devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted March 30, 2007 10:07 PM |
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Well i play alot online and usually no necro and conflux is the norm so i rarely play those towns. So luna is just a random luck factor in my gameplay. i Get them and i use them for their worth.
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Devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted May 17, 2007 02:24 PM |
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What you will find in the map and how well it is used is very important, although i would disagree when you(rock bull)say tat the hero which you use is not very important. Once you play at an acceptable level, and know how to capitalize on varios map objects, then it is very vital to select an appropriate hero.As we all know each class of hero has high probabilities of acheiving certain skills, so choosing the right hero will always give an edge. Eg: a scout babarian(eg gurnison) equiped with a balista can clear alot of blocks right from the word go whereas a beastmaster(eg burwolf) with a balista will need some more things to work on before he can wonder out.
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rock_bul
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posted May 20, 2007 09:38 AM |
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Devangle1984 and SwarpLord
if you have good hero - this is not your winning tiket for the victory!
will help you more to make it easly (the victory) - yes, but is very insufficient...
you can have tazar with 12 gnols only in second 2 heroes in tavern = the same, and you can hav ivor with 12 elfs 25 cents and 2 more ramparts heroes in tavern with 6 elfs and 25 cents = 24 elfs and 75 cents only from your first 3 heroes, from castle +7 elfs and 14 cents = 31 elfs and 89 cents you can have in day1 without any dweling. With this army you can play with any hero. for a few days you will make many levels. but with your tazar with 35 gnols you can do nothing...
so, shortly, your hero can help you more, but is not your guarantee for your win!
first you must play smart, know how use this what you have (no matter how poor it is) and never make bad desidions like surrending. every bad position is possible to win.
PS: What for this i like to play random. Engoj is bigger if you can play with any hero and any town. This must be NO problem for you
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first you need to know what exactly you want, then wish it!
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Devangle1984
Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
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posted May 20, 2007 09:32 PM |
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Rockbull, we draw a similar conclution, though looking at two sides, i never said a solid hero is a garunteed win, i just said its a good start. And a hero selection is always not just about mains either, scouts heroe's are just as important.In that example u told me, if tat was an xl map, then i would rather have tazar, and have tat army u gave me minus the 12 elves anytime. But i do agree on the fact that other things are an important factor, but what iam trying to say is that a wise hero selection is also a contributing factor, not a sure winner.100% of the time i play random maps and as u said it is vital to use ur options wisely and thats the reason i love it too.
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Athena
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 07, 2007 10:16 AM |
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Also i forgot to mention that hypno can also be usefull in stripping enemy retaliatory strike (with exception of griffins and similars).
For example, using any enemy(usually low lvl) stack on hes lvl 5 strongest stack to strip theirs reataliation for that turn, u can freely atack that same hi lvl stack without fear from suffering huge losses on its mighty retaliatory strike, and sometimes if all your forces combine to attack that single stack its possible to couse them so much dmg to actually gain upper hand in conflict and win battle.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 07, 2007 12:02 PM |
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If the hypnotize spell worked to open the gate, u didn't had the latest patch installed. With Heroes 3 SoD version 3.2, it won't work anymore.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted June 08, 2007 12:02 AM |
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Quote:
if you have good hero - this is not your winning tiket for the victory!
will help you more to make it easly (the victory) - yes, but is very insufficient...
you can have tazar with 12 gnols only in second 2 heroes in tavern = the same, and you can hav ivor with 12 elfs 25 cents and 2 more ramparts heroes in tavern with 6 elfs and 25 cents = 24 elfs and 75 cents only from your first 3 heroes, from castle +7 elfs and 14 cents = 31 elfs and 89 cents you can have in day1 without any dweling. With this army you can play with any hero. for a few days you will make many levels. but with your tazar with 35 gnols you can do nothing...
so, shortly, your hero can help you more, but is not your guarantee for your win!
first you must play smart, know how use this what you have (no matter how poor it is) and never make bad desidions like surrending. every bad position is possible to win.
PS: What for this i like to play random. Engoj is bigger if you can play with any hero and any town. This must be NO problem for you
I get your point. But that's dependant on heroes. For example, all fortress heroes start with lizards as well (i think?) and if you get brom, then you have basilisks. The only problem with this is fixed hero selection. I also like to play random, I just set my town for fortress and do not pick hero.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 08, 2007 10:03 AM |
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Quote:
I get your point. But that's dependant on heroes. For example, all fortress heroes start with lizards as well (i think?) and if you get brom, then you have basilisks...
Would be cool if you could count on that, but reality is different. There are fortress heroes who never start with lizardmen (e.g. : Gerwulf, Drakon...), 1 who only starts with lizardmen (Wystan) and nearly all others could have gnolls only, or even gnolls, lizards and flies to start with.
It is quite a difference starting with ROSIC and 20 gnolls in 1 game, or Tazar + 18 gnolls, 4 lizards and 3 flies resp. Bron + 16 gnolls and 7 basilisks in the next game.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Sub_Zero
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 17, 2007 04:41 PM |
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building a hero....do you really build it like frank writes on the first page? does it depands on templates? on maps like extreme 2 i find it very important to have skills like pathfinding, offense, armorer and tactics. if you turn it down to get logistics faster you may not get it offered again. of cource getting logistics+earth fastest possible should be the goal on rush-templates, but what about maps where you don't meet to early?
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 17, 2007 05:50 PM |
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Franks way of picking 2nd skills is not the way to go imho. If you are offered a new usefull skill, take it. It may never be offered to you again.
You should only take an exsisting skill over a good new skill in very rare ocations where you for example need exp earth here and now. You should also go for an expert skill instead of a new skill if you expect the final battle very soon or if there isnt much xp left on the map.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted January 16, 2008 04:03 PM |
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The damage is calculated seperately for each of the two stacks hit. Even the base damage is "rolled" twice.
As mentioned elsewhere, luck will only increase the damage dealt to first stack, i.e. the one you attacked.
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Hindorff
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posted June 23, 2008 05:23 AM |
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Quote:
Franks way of picking 2nd skills is not the way to go imho. If you are offered a new usefull skill, take it. It may never be offered to you again.
You should only take an exsisting skill over a good new skill in very rare ocations where you for example need exp earth here and now. You should also go for an expert skill instead of a new skill if you expect the final battle very soon or if there isnt much xp left on the map.
It's obviously a very circumstantial choice---I'd say it depends upon the map and the hero. Some heroes can pass up skills to work on other ones because they're just offered it so often. I try to avoid generalizing a secondary skill strategy unless I at least know the town, and preferably the hero.
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ong_y_j
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 27, 2008 05:52 AM |
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Quote:
As promised before, i copied the "1 angel vs 250 magogs" tactic from the Efreet sultans thread and paste it here into the Homm3 tactic thread:
For those of you who tried it and failed so far, here some hints:
- Cast shield first round to recieve less damage
- Always place your angel between 2 stacks. If u only have 1 stack "touching" your angel, it will move away and all others will shoot at you.
- When placed between 2 stacks, always attack the lower stack of magogs. Why? Simple...coz that way, u decimate both stacks at the same speed. You attack the lower one, and u retail to the attack of the top one.
-If both stacks are down to 10-20, fly your angel between the next 2 stacks.
- Cast cure early enough, coz when u r down to about 50 hitpoints, u will get attacked by range, coz they will be able to kill u with one shot.
- When all stacks are down to 10-20, start again from bottom to the top. Only attack once and give one retail, coz then the magogs are down to 4-7 each, which would be too low to survive an additional hit.
Just a short query: Isn't it better to cast stone skin over shield? After all, stone skin raises your def. strength which means more resistance against combat and range attacks, whereas shield only works against combat damage?
Thanks in advance for the clarifications.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted July 28, 2008 01:46 PM |
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Some usefull infos about "StoneSkin vs Shield" can be read here.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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