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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Unbeatable Combination?
Thread: Unbeatable Combination? [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
jiels
jiels


Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
posted December 07, 2001 03:49 AM
Edited By: Hexa on 26 Jan 2002

Unbeatable Combination?

hey Strategy people,

I have noticed that most of the people in here (except Mad)  know a ton about heroes!  More so then me..

I recently lost to this combination, and am wondering if anyone could tell me how to beat it.  (I have one solution, btw)

My opponent had Craig hack, shackles of war, orb of inhibition and the armor of the damned.  Could you beat this combination?  You are mass slowed, cursed, weakened and sorrowed first turn and can't retreat/surrender or dispel.  Meanwhile Hack's speciality is decimating your troop advantage.  

Anyone have any ideas?

jiels(is unlucky at..well, most things )

Edit: revived!@

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Undead_Knight
Undead_Knight


Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
posted December 07, 2001 04:10 AM

You forgot to mention what was the map
On Hg,Bm or random map it is not very strong combination
The most simple solution is to sit in city and destroy catapult when he will come  

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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted December 07, 2001 04:14 AM

mass prayer could help here!
____________
If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@

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jiels
jiels


Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
posted December 07, 2001 04:30 AM

Map was a random Xl, month 2.

Undead Knight- How can I destroy catapault with no lightning spell?  Otherwise that seems like a good suggestion.

Hexa-  Orb of inhibition prevents spells so no mass prayer.  If I had the AA then maybe that would work..

jiels (thanks you for your efforts)

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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted December 07, 2001 04:43 AM

damn,,,,, sorry I didn't read your entire post

PS: I'm usually to quick to answer!@

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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@

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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 07, 2001 05:18 AM

admit it.

you're @$$ed!

____________
- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models.  Well ... the ones his age (18-26)  

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Undead_Knight
Undead_Knight


Known Hero
Hero of Chaos
posted December 07, 2001 05:40 AM

:)

In this situation catapult can be destroyed if you have dragons or titans, artillery skill can also helps.

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2001 06:40 AM

You didn't say what you had...

That sounds like a pretty good combination, however it depends on the amounts of troops and which troops alot still. Craig Hack will be tearing your troops apart if you are a magic hero, but if you have a might hero you still got some chance. That orb though really limits your options before battle. It's really the total counter to H&R which you might use otherwise. In battle, unless you have AA's or even better, Phoenix you are in big trouble sounds like. You can't beserk, or any magic that would help, so your options are troops&specials or an ever stronger stat hero and better better morale luck then Hack.

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2001 06:44 AM

By the way Undead

I hope you meant it tongue in cheek, but what combinations would you think are stronger than that? I would only possibly put in Recanters rather than Orb, but still... Orb limits alot and with Armor of Damned, I am not sure what other artifacts came with SoD, but I think there are only a couple others to come close to the Armor, especially with that hero and the Orb.

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jiels
jiels


Adventuring Hero
LFM C'thun, pst.
posted December 07, 2001 07:01 AM

Ichon,

Our stats were mid 20's within 1-4 of each other.  His were just a little better.  My best stacks were 19 phoenixes, 18 archangels, and 48 wyverns.  My opponents best stacks were 114 wyverns, 8 Ancient behemoths, and 70 pegasi.

Now, the plan was to use my speed to avoid those wyverns after I had killed all his Abs with my implosion (I had orb of silt).  If he had red orb or recanters then just use my speed to make sure I was in control of the fight.  Surrendering if I had to, I had the edge on creature production.  

Normally I would not have fought a hero like this but...we had been playing for about 8 hours and we just wanted to end it.  With his mass slow he made sure to take off retaliation and then let his massive amounts of wyverns go to work.    

Still it was fun.  The only thing I can think of was to have attacked him before he collected that combination.  *shrug*  Live and learn.

jiels (loses again! )

 

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 07, 2001 07:47 AM

Hmm...

Yeah, by the time you got into that battle it was pretty late. The only thing I could think of was to make sure your Phoenix were divided, so you they get to rebirth more often. Like I've noticed single Phoenix seem to get reborn almost always, so making making two stacks of single and and then dividing the Arches into two equal stacks for more resurrections... Well, the sorrowed wouldnt' have been as effecive with two stacks of Arches, and even slowed your Arches and Phoenx still the fastest units. Not much, but... really, I coul donly thinkg maybe you should bait the 114 wyverns with your 48, and try to wipe out the Ancients first. With Hacks already prodigious attack bonus you don't need the -80% defense reduction to touch any of your units. Then then as many times as you can hit with the single Phoenix first while ignoring the Pegsai till Wyverns almost gone. With the two groups of 9 Arches and Phoenix getting rebirth I'd guess you still had a chance, though it is small if your opponent played really cautious and advanced slowly across the battlefield shielding his Ancients.

To have optimum odds though, you are surely right, never get into that battle in first place. Wih your awesome speed advantage you should have won that easily if you taken more time.
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wiggy_wam
wiggy_wam


Promising
Famous Hero
local pirate
posted December 07, 2001 08:33 AM

when I did all that battle testing (posted on another thread) ... there were always 30 phoenixes, and when they died, it was always 6 reborn.

This happened 14 / 14  ... therefore, 20% will be reborn (or have about a 20% chance)

anyway, it's an interesting observation on phoenixes
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- wiggy ... who has a crush on Rob's models.  Well ... the ones his age (18-26)  

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Dajek
Dajek


Known Hero
Psychedelic Knight
posted December 07, 2001 01:45 PM

Well, seems impossible to me, but well random stuff happens - it could happen in Your favor!
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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted December 07, 2001 02:31 PM

Power of the Dragon Father would have helped, of course, it is pretty hard to put together.  Other than that, I sure can't think of anything.

BTW PotDF makes all troops invulnerable to levels 1-4 spells for those who don't want to look it up or don't have SOD.

An anti-magic garrison will stop the Armour of the damned, but I think you needed the castle to have the chance.


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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 07, 2001 03:49 PM

It could have been even worse...

... opponent could have had Orb of Vulnerability too. (Otherwise going to battle with Black dragons, Gold Dragons or Magic Elemental might have helped.)

There are two artifacts that helps a bit:
- Pendant of Holiness (against Curse)
- Hourglass of the Evil Hour (against misfortune), the spell is still cast but the hourglass negates the Luck penalty.

- As far as I know the amour doesn't cast Sorrow. Insead it's Misfortune, but I guess that Spirit of Oppression would work in a similar way.

In your sitation you need a few artifacts of your own. I guess that Elixir of Life would be helpful. Other than that, your hero must have about the same attack and defece values as the opponent or you're inbig trouble.
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StormWarning
StormWarning


Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
posted December 07, 2001 08:08 PM

Quote:
- Hourglass of the Evil Hour (against misfortune), the spell is still cast but the hourglass negates the Luck penalty.


No, Hourglass (and the Spirit of Oppression) only negate good luck or morale. But since bad luck doesn't do anything in H3, it's not a big deal.

The only hope I can see for you - Power of the Dragon Father, or an army the size of Russia. He had an almost unbeatable combination.
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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 09, 2001 07:50 AM

Well, only way to win a hero like that is to have a better might hero yourself (artifacts counted), more creatures on your side or the combination of the both.

Armor of the Damned, if I remember right, casts both mass slow and mass weakness on the first round. Wouldn`t the Orb of Inhibition make it impossible? If not, good artifact might be the Angelic Alliance (casts Expert Prayer on the first round), which is superior.
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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 10, 2001 03:40 AM

You got to lose that battle, but you can still win the game. :)

Quote:
Our stats were mid 20's within 1-4 of each other.  His were just a little better.  My best stacks were 19 phoenixes, 18 archangels, and 48 wyverns.  My opponents best stacks were 114 wyverns, 8 Ancient behemoths, and 70 pegasi.

Well, it seems you only got very slim chance to win that battle. I cannot think of better tactic than Ichon's idea.

But, the Russian post gives me some inspiration about winning the GAME instead of the particular battle. You can use "earth burning" tactic, i.e. use numerous heroes to steal mines, constantly changing the towns (well, it seems you have no heroes to stop his Hack), buy out everything you can and run away with troops. Avoid battles with Hack and accumulate your troops and build up your might heroes more. But if his Hack got town portal, you are in serious trouble.

It takes time and patience. If you want to have a quick end, go and fight him and.......................die a glorious death.



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Choose what you love
and love what you choose.

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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 11, 2001 06:51 PM

Quote:
Quote:
- Hourglass of the Evil Hour (against misfortune), the spell is still cast but the hourglass negates the Luck penalty.


No, Hourglass (and the Spirit of Oppression) only negate good luck or morale. But since bad luck doesn't do anything in H3, it's not a big deal. quote]

You have a point there. But at least the Hourglass prevents your opponent from having a better Luck than you have by removing the opponents Luck bonuses.

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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted December 11, 2001 11:48 PM

Yep Djive!

The exact reason I like those two artifacts, I don't want anyone else getting something I can't have. ;-)  It's too much risk to chance them having higher morale, or any morale really. If you have +2 morale or better, anything can happen. Same as luck, I've seen much lower morale and luck +bonus recieve more good things. So better to eliminate that, so much the better if you cancel 1 or 2 of opponents skills totally. Hardly any other artifacts do that besides Red Orb. So- to me that makes those two artifacts some of the best in the game, majors or even relics possibly. And so easy to get! Frequently doubled in the game so more than one of each floating around on larger maps, and if not- any black market usually has at least one, usually both of them.

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