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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Siege strategy
Thread: Siege strategy [ This thread is 2 pages long: (1) 2 ]
Zaloy
Zaloy

Tavern Dweller
posted December 29, 2001 06:27 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 28 Jan 2002

Siege strategy

Okay I'm kinda new to the game and not that good yet.  I was wondering what your general strategies are for when you are attacked in your castle.  Do you sit inside and wait for them to come (what I normally do) or go out and try to take out shooters or attack all out?  I ask this because in this last battle I had I defending a stronghold castle with a grail in it(+20 att for defender), the hero had crap spells and about 3 weeks worth of troops all upgraded and all stronghold troops.  The attacker was a tower hero Solomyr or something (guy with chain lightining) and good spells like (10 power and 10 knowledge) with about equal the amount of troops as mine maybe a bit more all tower troops.  I stuck to my old plan of staying in castle, but this time I lost.  Do you think it would have been wise to go out and attack him or just do what I did?  What do you normally do in this situation?

Edit:  revived!@
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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted December 29, 2001 06:55 PM

Everything you mentioned seems to favour going out after him.  First, one way to stop chain lightning is to get mixed up with his troops so he will hit them too. Second, Stronghold is better on attack than defense.  Third, tower has lots of ranged firepower.  Also magi make his spells cost less to cast, so taking them out could make him run out of SP.(Not too likely, but still)

If you like sitting in your castle, you ought to try Dungeon!  It is one of my favourite towns to defend a seige against with 2 decent shooters, hags (basically a short range shooter)  Minitaur Kings to stop a breach, and 2 other flyers if you need to take out ranged troops.
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Coldfyrius
Coldfyrius


Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
posted December 30, 2001 02:53 AM

While defending a town with a Citadel or Castle, you're holding all the cards.  I usualy stay indoors, take out the shooters with spells, and shoot the flyers out of the sky.  Chain Lightning can be a *****, but there's no rule against you using it back, when you'll hit only enemy troops as well.
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Gimmickless
Gimmickless


Promising
Known Hero
Cannon Maker
posted December 30, 2001 03:31 AM

Cold, you noticed that he said he was Stronghold: a third lvl mage guild doesn't do anything for chain lightning except Protection From Air.  No help in firing CL to CL, espcially with non-spell based Stronghold.

He had about 3 weeks of troops, right?  Your towers will do roughly 100 point of damage, about enough to take out 3 or 4 magi per turn.  That's not enough to wear down three weeks of troops.  Best bet is to go all out and crush him before his range destroys your low-defense troops.  I do recommend waiting with everyone except (possibly) goblins to draw fire.  Then pour out the gates and destroy whatever you can crush easily.  Use your behemoth's defense buster specialty to the fullest.

Your best bet with stronghold is to Crush, Kill, and Destroy.  I recommend checking back a page or two in this forum to find a Stronghold strategy thread so you can stomp Tower and their wizard's robes oh-so-much more efficiently and effectively.
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ArcherFrog
ArcherFrog

Tavern Dweller
posted December 30, 2001 07:22 AM

When defending it's usually best to take out the flyers first since ranged troops will only do 1/4 damage because of the distance and wall penalties (arch magi have no wall penalty). You can also wait with your fastest troops (haste them if necessary) then attack at the end of the round and retreat behind the wall at the beginning of the next round. If you begin a battle with magi the spell point reduction benefit will continue after they have been destroyed.
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Tristan
Tristan


Promising
Known Hero
illegally insane
posted December 30, 2001 04:15 PM

My mistake there, I didn't realize that all those sort of effects remained even if the creature died.  Sort of like you still get morale penalties even after other alignment/undead creatures die.  I wonder if this even applies to Unicorns aura of resistance?

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TheJester
TheJester


Adventuring Hero
posted December 31, 2001 06:49 AM

What I would do is Bling the Titans for as long as possible, and keep your units inside the castle walls.  Let the flying Gargs and Genies come, no big deal.  Let your AB's and T-Birds take care of the Genies and then let the Ogres, Goblins, and W-Riders take care of the Gargs, making sure to attack with the Goblins/Ogres first, so the W-Riders take full advantage of the Double attack.  Let your Cyclops and Orca take tare of the Magi/Gremlins.  You will be good until the walls come down, use your best strategy when the Nagas and the rest come through the holes in your wall.

Scared of Chain Lightning?  Send a slew of weak heroes to tempt Solmyr into wasting its spell points, and maybe a Magic Arrow to take down a couple Gremlins or Magi.

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sos
sos


Known Hero
posted December 31, 2001 06:21 PM

When playing Stronghold you MUST have mass haste. If you go first and have tactics you can bring your troops outside. Mass haste and all your troops go in a row. Behemoths attack Titans. You mixed your creatures with his so chain lightning will hit his creatures as well. +20 attack in effect will double your damage so you should be able to cripple him for good in that first round. Another way to protect yourself is expert prottection from air.

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TheJester
TheJester


Adventuring Hero
posted December 31, 2001 07:56 PM

Does the Tower hero have Exp. Ballistics?  Who is your hero, and What skills/spells do you have?

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Cat
Cat


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Gonna Get Dirrty...
posted January 01, 2002 07:11 PM

My technique under those circumstances is to leave my shooters inside the castle walls (extra protection), mix my troops with his to avoid chain lightning, attemp to take out magi and master gremins first, mostly with my shooters, then attack th strongest stack.  Repetitive casting of 'blind' is good for neutralising enemys.  Or put it on Auto-Combat! Hehehe.

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dragonsister
dragonsister

Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
posted January 02, 2002 02:59 AM

Quote:
What I would do is Bling the Titans for as long as possible, and keep your units inside the castle walls.


You forget ... Titans are immune to mind spells.

DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/

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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted January 02, 2002 01:50 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 2 Jan 2002

LOL Dargon sister u just beat me too it!@

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targon_the_l...
targon_the_lunar_archer


Known Hero
Ranger of AvLee
posted January 03, 2002 02:55 AM

Definitely...

...engage them as soon as possible; this seems like a right thing to do. Stronghold is no good defending anyway...
Round three weeks of troops, ha? That's a serious shooting power we're talking here, not to mention that Stronghold has no shooters to match a combined attack of Titans and Arch Magi (MG as a support) plus Solmyr with spell power round 10 and a bunch of spell points, oooops! Major setback here.
Yep, you should probably try to mix up with them as soon as possible (thus you would utilize the grail special to the fullest anyway).
But it's still far from sure thing, be it that Tower troops are led by the AI).
I'd say the final outcome would depend on Master Genies - AI probably wouldn't rush with them, a few spells on Titans or Magi here could be devastating - the battle'd depend on those spells, and they'd be... ah, well - random!
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thunderknight
thunderknight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 03, 2002 03:49 AM

If those tower troops are used by an at least average human player, you already lose. He/she just needs to block the gate and let his/her titans/AM/MG shoot and with CL, you are dead.

The biggest mistake I can see in this battle is not having an all out attack and so the special effect of the grail is wasted. +20 is meaningless if you not go out.

A mass haste + all out attack is your best way to win.


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sikmar
sikmar


Promising
Known Hero
The Moonchild
posted January 03, 2002 08:42 AM

First at all...

most of the tactics I'm gonna explain are not useful in your particular battle, which is in my opinion one of the worst cases to defend a town: many powerful shooters (remember that magi have no wall penalty) and a good magic user are not an invitation to stay behind your walls. So go out as soon as possible, let your expendable goblins take the retaliations and attack with all your barbarian fury.

But, for the most of the siege battles, a skilled player can employ a lot of outstanding tactics to defend a town:

1.- First, try a hero bombing to make the coming enemy to waste his spell points. The AI will always cast a spell if you split you ready-to-die troops in seven 1 member stacks and it can't reach them all in the first round. If you're fast enough to cast some spells with your sparring heros, try to take out some shooters, the ballista or the first aid tent.

2.- If you have one of two rounds before the enemy at your gates is able to knock down the walls, and you have enough firepower, concentrate on destroy his catapult. Measure carefully if you can take down its 1000 hit points with a combination of spells, tower shots (if your defender has got the Ballistics Skill), creature shots and fast creatures close combat. Consider sacrificing some of your troops in order to do so. And a very useful tip: you can win very, very unbalanced battles with this technique, only by letting your towers shoot without end, if you leave alive a little stack of enemy shooters (or the ballista). When the enemy hero runs out of mana, or ammo, or all his shooters are dead, it usually flees, and you surely want to kill all those tank troops waiting for arrows outside the walls.

3.- If the AI puts one of its units just in front of the bridge, blinding it is a very useful option. The remaining enemy troops will not be able to enter and your shooters will take advantage of that fact.

4.- If the enemy still has spell points, remember that one of the best spells for your shooters is "Antimagic"

5.- The "you can't catch me" tactic also works. A little amount of a fast unit (Dragon Flies, Archangels, Phoenixes...) can wait till the tank troops are in the moat and then fly to the enemy lines, causing the moat-trapped units to turn back. Then you can fly again behind the walls and repeat the trick again and again.

6.- Your fast flyers can use the wait button to attack at the end of the turn and come back to safety in the beginning of the next turn. This is also useful with fast tank troops, once you are sure you're the fast one and can return to the castle. If you have some no-retaliation units (Nagas, Magic Elementals, Cerberi, Hydras...) consider hasting them to kill some siegers for free.

7.- If you have a powerful but low-defense shooter (Sharpshooters are the perfect example), put them in two stacks and block the way to them with tank troops. You will have two groups of defenders, one in each corner of the town, protected from close combat.

8.- Finally, use the moat at the top of his possibilities. If a creature steps on it, block its way inside the town with an expendable but numerous defender. Don't attack the moat invader, only press the defend button and let the moat, the retaliation and the shooters (towers will have a good chance of targeting it) do the work. This tactic is really, really good with Dendroid Soldiers.

That's all which came to my mind right now. Surely there's a lot of tricks I forget, but sometimes you need to be in the battlefield to think as a general :-)

Regards.

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night_on_earth
night_on_earth


Hired Hero
posted October 22, 2004 01:35 PM

great post, sikmar


I hope it is ok to revive this thread.

Quote:

8.- Finally, use the moat at the top of his possibilities. If a creature steps on it, block its way inside the town with an expendable but numerous defender. Don't attack the moat invader, only press the defend button and let the moat, the retaliation and the shooters (towers will have a good chance of targeting it) do the work. This tactic is really, really good with Dendroid Soldiers.



Often I apply another strategy which used to be successful in most cases. If the attacker knocks down the wall at one spot, I build a "pocket" with three tank troops, leaving the square adjacent to the hole unoccupied. When one of the enemy stacks shows up, I decide which of my stacks goes first and takes the retaliation by using the wait button, my other two stacks attack without retaliation. This makes three attacks and one retaliation versus one attack and one retaliation caused by the intruder. In this way I can take out enemy stacks one by one. Disadvantage to sikmar's strategy: there is no moat penalty for my opponent.

Side effect: If there are two adjacent holes in the castle's wall, hydras and psychic/magic elementals can protect both entries by applying this strategy.

If you've got the artillery secondary skill, you are not only able to direct the fire of the towers, but you are first casting a spell every round (you know this already, right?)

When you are the attacker in a siege and have advanced or expert ballistics, it often works to aim at the drawbridge. I often manage to open/destroy it with my first couple of shots, allowing my ground troops to invade.



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Conan
Conan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2004 04:03 PM

one of my favorite is to observe witch stack the computer shoots with your castle. Then, when you can predict who the towers will go for, you cast "air shield" for extra damage. I love to take the computer bugs and turn them against him!!! LOL
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sirzapdos
sirzapdos


Promising
Famous Hero
Open the pod bay doors, Hal.
posted October 22, 2004 06:58 PM

Quote:
I love to take the computer bugs and turn them against him!!! LOL

My fave exploitation is using Black Drags in H2, and being able to hit 3 stacks in one turn with one stack of Drags.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted October 25, 2004 01:37 PM

Quote:
one of my favorite is to observe witch stack the computer shoots with your castle. Then, when you can predict who the towers will go for, you cast "air shield" for extra damage. I love to take the computer bugs and turn them against him!!! LOL


You cannot cast blesses on enemy troops.

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LordAzamath
LordAzamath


Hired Hero
is dwelling in the tavern
posted June 25, 2007 04:18 PM

It won't work when the enemy has strong magic or lots of shooters, but have anybody thought of destroying enemy's ballista so your towers can shoot foever and only fliers get in, but usually because they are always in the front, they have suffered greatly and are in few numbers. Your shooters and towers can take out enemys monsters when they wait behind the walls.

a question: if you destroy someones ballista, but he still wins does the hero havethe ballista next time (s)he tries to siege a
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