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| Thread: Is America Stupid, is it the president, or what? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 27, 2004 03:16 AM |
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“If you are a Marxist then financial background is irrelevant to the community's interest. Marxist authors make clear that "labor" is the commodity of interest, not financial background.”
Marx belonged (actually founded) to the branch of philosophy called historical materialism. He believed that the material (read: financial) and economical conditions in society determine the way we think and are crucial for the historical development. Simple e.g.: Marrige was “invented” as a way to inherit property. In some nomad societies where there’s no land to inherit, there is poligamy. This is not the case in agricultural societies.
If I put it in a different manner: The economical conditions are the “base”, while the laws, religion, moral, scince etc. are the “upgrades” in society.
These “bases” include division of labor, the means of prodution and the natural resources. “Financial background” (or control of the means of production) is the base, while the policy (that Bush leads, in our case) is the “upgrade”. Am i clear enough?
Even though Marxists believe “money makes the world go round” they want a better society where the division of labor and means of production is more just.
“Marxism says to achieve his theories through revolutionary or dictatorial means.”
The goals I mentioned can and should be achieved through revolution, says the Communist Manifesto. But not dictatorial means! The “proletarian dictatorship” is the only form of dictatorship mentioned in the Manifesto. Totalitarian dictators, such as Stalin, are not what Communism is about.
And who told you i’m Russian? I am Macedonian. But I can still explain the difference between “Russian” and “Soviet”. Geographically, “Soviet” is broader than “Russian”, because USSR included Russia and 14 other countries. “Soviet” should be avoided, unless you are talking about history. However, the two terms are often used interchangingly.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 29, 2004 09:18 PM |
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I Am Curious
Quote:
I am Macedonian.
I am curious. If you are Macedonian, then what do you think of these two people?
1. Slobodan Milosevic
2. Vojislav Kostunica
I am also inclined to wonder what your thoughts are concerning your country's economy? If you are a Marxist then I assume you have some ideas on how to strengthen your country's economy. A 2002 estimate of your macedonian denar shows it to be 64.35 to one u.s. dollar. It also showed your unemployment rate to be at 37%(one third of total workforce)
I also do not understand why Greece has such harsh feelings over the choice for your country's name. Maybe Lith Maethor could elaborate(he is from greece I think).
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted January 30, 2004 05:21 AM |
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I Am Curious Too
Why are you so interested in Macedonia? I mean, I’m honored and I’ll explain as much as I can, but I haven’t seen anyone so vividly interested in a small Balkan country.
“If you are Macedonian, then what do you think of these two people?
1. Slobodan Milosevic
2. Vojislav Kostunica”
You are aware that these people are Serbian political figures, not Macedonian, I presume. In my opinion, Milosevic was a dangerous nationalist, both for his country and the region. He wasn’t a dictator as he is represented, but was guilty for a lot of problems we have here. Kostunica is also a nationalist, but no different than other right-wing politicians in other countries, which is why I don’t like him either.
I’m impressed with the research you’ve done about the Macedonian economy. I’m not much of an economist, but I know smth. The value of our currency is stable. We had a very low inflation since the breakup of Yugoslavia. (actually, you Americans should be more worried about the dollar  ) The biggest problem is the huge unemployment of 40% (highest in Europe), but some of these people do have a job (illegal) of some kind. Many of the factories from socialist Yugoslavia have closed down, many switched from state to private ownership through illegal deals and foreign investments are hard to come by especially after the conflict.
Even if I’m a socialist, I stay close to the ground. The Marxist model wouldn’t work in the present international political constellation. What we need now is fight against crime and corruption, reform of the public administration and some foreign investments. But the income disparity mustn’t be forgotten, state companies crucial for infrastructure (electricity, water) shouldn’t be sold out, especially not to foreign multinationals, education and healthcare must remain free and open to everybody…
“I also do not understand why Greece has such harsh feelings over the choice for your country's name.”
Me too. But, hey, this is Balkan politics. Nothing is logical here. And relations are so strained between nations, that sometimes I think there has to be a science called Balkanology. All this is an extensive issue, but you asked for it!
You’ve heard of the ancient Macedonians and Alexander, right? Many historians now believe that Ancient Macedonians were more or less extinct after the Slavs came from the north (V and VI century) and settled on their territory. The term geographically known as Macedonia encompasses today’s territory of the Republic of Macedonia and the northern part of Greece. The Balkan peoples didn’t have states of their own until the 19 and 20th century. They were under the Ottoman Empire. The Greek state was formed far earlier (1820) than the Macedonian. In the Second Balkan War (1913) the territory of the geographical Macedonia was divided among Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece. The majority of the population on this territory was Slavic, who took the name and some customs from the Ancient Macedonians, and at the time the Macedonian national identity was forming among these people. However, they were exposed to ruthless assimilation by the conquering nations.
The Serbian part of Macedonia managed not to become Serb, and through the socialist movement developed as a state of its own (1944) in the borders of socialist Yugoslavia. The ethnical composition of the Greek part of Macedonia however, changed dramatically (Greek-Turkish War, forced migrations, assimilation) since the 19th century and today Greeks claim it to be entirely Greek, has always been, forever will be. Macedonians in Greece aren’t allowed to even open cultural societies. Minority issues are smth about which Greece is always criticized from the EU, but it’s still a member country.
“Maybe Lith Maethor could elaborate (he is from greece I think).”
Oh, boy! He’s a mod, right? I’m toasted! I mean, I don’t wanna be misunderstood. I love Greece: Greek music, mythology, history, philosophy, beaches. It’s my favorite country, but there’s a strong nationalistic movement there (and a communist one, btw ) and I don’t like it. It’s not just Greece, I don’t like nationalism everywhere. Viva la Revolucion!
PS: Sorry everybody. This was a bit off topic, but I felt obliged to respond to Consis. Plus it’s not everyday that a small country has the chance to present itself to the world.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted January 30, 2004 08:17 AM |
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Fascinating Post Svarog
Absolutely fantastic! Thankyou for sharing some of your country's history and current relations with us.
Your post was not off-topic at all. America is not the only country that has people express hatred for it. Many other countries have their own political opposition hate groups as well, both foreign and domestic.
I have always found it extremely important to share as much information as possible when asking why someone hates an entire country. I know there must be many reasons and not just one. I also know that the answer must be very complex with many different variables.
After reading the post about your country it is very helpful to the rest of us who wonder why anyone could hate an entire country of people, especially one as large as the U.S. Thankyou again.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted January 31, 2004 05:15 PM |
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Consis, why are you so interested in us,Blakn peoples so much,if I may ask?
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted February 03, 2004 02:27 AM |
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Svarog, why don't you like nationalism? Is it a universal bad thing to you? Can't it be healthy for a country to promote it's own culture?
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted February 03, 2004 10:58 AM |
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By nationalism, people too often mean fascism and chauvinism.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted February 03, 2004 01:26 PM |
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Nationalim is NOT Fascism. That is a weird thing to belive. Nationalism can be described as love for your country, for it's culture, for it's integrity. That is nationalism. But when some people tend to... let's say, overreact in this matters, then it's no longer nationalism.
Furthermore, when you live, like me, in a country that has no pride, no culture, no integrity, no history, no nothing, how can you even consider being a nationalist?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 03, 2004 04:48 PM |
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And what kind of country might that be?
I don't beleive that kind of country exists.
What I mean by nationalism is etno-centrism or extreme nationalism. From a scientific point of view you are right about nationalism, but from political it's a right-wing logic I don't like at all.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted February 03, 2004 04:59 PM |
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Quote:
right-wing logic I don't like at all.
You are a communist, am I right? If so, everything is going to be "right-wing to you. You can't go much farther to the left, being a communist.
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted February 03, 2004 05:02 PM |
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I never said I like right wing politics. Actually, this can turn out to be an interesting thread, since I myself study political science. I cannot say I am on the left side, either, since i embrace belives of both sides. All of them to the extreme. And when you talk about extremes, there is little diference between them. I like both in certain aspects, and both piss me off in other aspects. There is no pure right or left, as there is no pure ideology. The present provides us only with mixings of ancestral ideeas.
Just because a theory is right winged, that does not mean it is wrong or that is starts off from a bad point of view.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 03, 2004 05:30 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 3 Feb 2004
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You Should Be Very Proud
Quote:
Furthermore, when you live, like me, in a country that has no pride, no culture, no integrity, no history, no nothing, how can you even consider being a nationalist?
Doomnezu,
No pride, no culture, no integrity, no history, no nothing?!
How can you say that about your own country? Your country is a great country with a rich history that has roots originating with the roman-empire and the Dacians! Your people have made a great impact on the entire world. If you donot believe me then I want you to research these names:
Ivan Patzaikin
Constantin Bracusi
Emil Cioran
Andre Codrescu
Mircea Eliade
George Enescu
Eugene Ionesco
Herman Oberth
Nadia Comaneci
Gheorghe Hagi
Ilie Nastase
Ion Tiriac
These are your people. These people have affected the rest of humanity in the only way they knew how, by contributing their great talents to the entire world. You have a great country and good people in it. Do not be ashamed of a draconian securitate police state or a horrible communistic dictator. Your people are trying to put that behind you. In 1996 your people came together and swept the communists out of power. Now the Social Democratic Party governs with the support of the Democratic Union of Hungarians in Romania. Perhaps your country has not yet joined the European Union but that's ok because it is clear that your people are trying to deal with it's own internal problems such as: corruption, inflation, and 44.5% of your population below poverty. I live in Oregon. Your country is only slightly smaller than my state. Don't forget that you have strong domestic activity in construction and agriculture. While there is a need to worry about poverty and unemployment there should be an equal amount of pride for your own people who carved a niche for themselves in the global growth of humanity.
LoL, and if nothing else, I ask you, who gave the world Dracula? LoL Hehehe
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted February 03, 2004 05:43 PM |
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Vlad himself...
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 04, 2004 04:05 AM |
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Consis, forgive me for saying, but your post clearly looks like you have read some encyclopedia facts about Romania and put it all inside. Don't misunderstand me, I respect your effort, but it seems to me like you hadn't known much about his country, nor all those people before you read those facts.
You, my fellow Balkanman, have a problem with self-confidence. Although I've never thought I'd say this, I say to thee: Be a nationalist a bit. Respect your culture, but respect others too.
We Balkan people, have a serious complex of inferiority compared to Western countries. All I'm saying is don't throw away more than 2000 years of culture and civilization. It's true we have never been world powers or had much influence in the world, but one thing I know, I don't want to live in a world superpower which exploits other people or makes acts of aggressions to other countries. I'm proud of my country and what makes me even more proud is the fact that such a small country has survived in this cruel world.
Those Westerners will never understand our way of living. That's what makes us who we are. Don't negate all that. Some say, on the Balkans, we fight each other because we love each other. Who knows?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted February 04, 2004 07:31 AM |
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You Finally Understand
Svarog,
You finally understand why I ask for your opinion so often. You offer what I cannot find in books and newspapers. You tell it like it is because you live there. I find your way of life to be fascinating and very different from American ways of life. You and Wiseman were curious why I was so interested in the Balkans and wondered if I might want to live there. I can't move from my house anymore than you can move from yours. I just want a true piece of culture from the Balkans that you can only find by talking to someone who lives there. I very much welcome your corrections to my vague foreign descriptions, especially concerning your homeland. I feel so adventurous when listening to people talk about their foreign cultures. It reminds me of how truly diverse humanity really is. It is reassurance to me that we humans have many valuable things most of which are in our cultural beings.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted February 04, 2004 02:21 PM |
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@Svarog
I would respect my country's culture, if my country would have one. Those people Consis mentioned are by far the worst examples possible. Why? Because most of all ar football players or ex football players, ex tennis players and such. And from what I know, football is yet to be called culture. As for Ionesco and Cioran, I do not consider them romanian. They left for France when their ideological help was needed the most. It's one thing to stay in a confortable armchair, with a bottle of Bordeaux by your side, and try to impress anyone with stupid, but yet nicely said, words, far away from where the trouble is, and another thing is to stand up for what you belive in, facing the danger of being executed for that. One more thing about Cioran, his filosophy was certainly one of the worst, he was allways negating himself and such. No good thoughts there, just for a bunch of horny 16th year old teenagers. Brancusi was just carving his sculptures, nothing more, he's just there AS IS.
As for Consis, man, I had a good laugh when I read your post with that "romania changed the world" stuff. Thanks, I really needed that. But seriously, grab a hystory book and you'll see that Romania is nothing and, worst, it MEANS nothing. It means nothing to me, also.
RESPECT!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted February 04, 2004 02:57 PM |
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Choice A : Take pride in who you are and in what you do. Take responsibility and accept consequences of the same.
Choice B : Take pride on who happened to live in the same general area that you live now, albeit 500 years ago. Live off the accomplishments of your ancestors. Delude yourself into thinking that the olympic gold medal that somebody from the same town as you won makes you a better athelete. Curl up into a little ball of shame over the atrocities commited by someone you never met who's actions you had no control over and who died 50 years before you were born. Work yourself into a frenzy over a battle that happened 100 years ago when the ancestors of the people who now live 3 towns over defeated the ancestors of the people who now live in your town and because of which you hate those horrible 3-town-overs.
Guess how I feel about nationalism?
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Drive by posting.
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted February 04, 2004 04:44 PM |
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Hm, I think I`ll go with A.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 04, 2004 07:04 PM |
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“Take pride on who happened to live in the same general area that you live now, albeit 500 years ago.”
Yes, because that makes me who I am and shows me I’m not from nowhere.
“Live off the accomplishments of your ancestors.”
Yes, because that kinda lenghthens my life for about 500 years before I was born.
“Delude yourself into thinking that the olympic gold medal that somebody from the same town as you won makes you a better athelete.”
But, it sure gives me a nice feeling.
“Curl up into a little ball of shame over the atrocities commited by someone you never met who's actions you had no control over and who died 50 years before you were born.”
Yes, because that gives me moral responsibility to control the actions of those who are and those that will come.
“Work yourself into a frenzy over a battle that happened 100 years ago when the ancestors of the people who now live 3 towns over defeated the ancestors of the people who now live in your town and because of which you hate those horrible 3-town-overs.”
You are right about this one.
Ps: Bort, you are American, right?
“But seriously, grab a hystory book and you'll see that Romania is nothing and, worst, it MEANS nothing.”
Does USA mean something because they shaped the world according to their wishes? Do they mean something because they have Hollywood and Arnold Schwarzeneger?
You can’t find the true greatness of Romania in history books about great battles and conquerors. (as I also can’t find Macedonia in those kind of books)
But, you take my word for it, I have met many people from all over the world (West and East), and this may sound a bit sentimental (and I hate sentimental snow), but it’s the truth: None of them have the depth of the soul as we, on the Balkans. There, in every person soul can you find the greatness of Romania.
OK, cut the crap. That almost brought a tear to my eye.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Hritik
Adventuring Hero
Weekly viewer
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posted February 09, 2004 11:01 AM |
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America,
Your president is dumb, dishonest, greedy, & inconsiderate.
Where the hell are the WMDs?!
Until now they still haven't found any?
We've been tricked!
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