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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Sir Stiven -- HC's Heyoka?
Thread: Sir Stiven -- HC's Heyoka? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted November 12, 2003 02:22 PM

So I'm a hypocrite.  Won't be the first or the last time.  Foolish consistency, hobgoblin and whatnot.

I do think there's a difference between starting a thread such as this and posting in it.  Maybe there's not, I don't know.  (FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!)

If you're referring to my "high road" comment, I didn't take the high road, but I really don't like the periodic pile on Stiven bloodletting.
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Hexa
Hexa


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted November 12, 2003 02:56 PM
Edited By: Hexa on 12 Nov 2003

Well to comments on the last aspect of your post.
What comes around .. goes around!@

And yes Bort please lets argue about your hypocracy.
But after this and in another thread. (fight fight)

Edit: grrr typo's
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 13, 2003 01:29 AM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 12 Nov 2003

--Just checking in long enough to ask ---

Who were those unmasked men???? Lich are you one of them??? I thought I heard once that Khayman was one of them too....

<EDIT>  Oh.... duh... (Can you say "slow on the uptake???")

BTW bort, pete's sake man.  Lighten up.  If you are a hypocrite then at least you're in good company here in this thread (especially mine).  

Also, where in my profile does it say I'm a judge???
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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted November 13, 2003 01:40 PM

I seem to recall you mentioning being a judge in a thread somewhere.  Maybe I misread something.  Or imagined it.  I do that sometimes.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted November 14, 2003 12:45 AM

On top of other thangs you just somehow imagine about .
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 15, 2003 08:26 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 15 Nov 2003

Bort, in answer to your earlier long post, in which you answered my question of why (I thought) you were “defending” Stiven.  I now better understand that you were not necessarily doing that.  Instead, you were speaking out against an injustice you perceived, and those of us who follow you would have expected nothing less.

In response: First, I don’t think of HC as just an on-line message board.  I think of it – as the title would imply – as a community, in which I have become a member.  Merriam-Webster’s Home & Office defines “community” as “a body of people living in the same place under the same laws.”

In many ways, HC is more of a community than many of our neighborhoods are.  This is an international gathering place for the exchange of thoughts, feelings and ideas.  It focuses on communication, in ways that human communities (at least in the “civilized” world) have begun to lose.  Because the focus of the community is communication, to me at least it is an important part of my life, and I suspect, the lives of many who have become as invested as I have.  Just because we are bodily separated does not make this any less of a community in which we are less invested because of the distance – in fact it may accentuate the importance of the communications that take place between us.

For these reasons, you may not be as far off in your passionate response as you think (referring to your comment about maybe having a psychological problem, feeling like a hypocrite for posting here, etc.).  Perhaps you too are invested, and frankly I see nothing wrong with that.  I think it speaks to your humanity, my friend, just as does your well-formulated response in telling us how wrong you believe this sort of thing is.

Your excellent example of the workplace is another critical manifestation of “community.”  Employees work together and, depending on the kind of work they do, have to be able to trust one another, cooperate, maintain respect and communicate openly.  Your example of pettiness arising among cliques is right on point for many situations, particularly in workplace communities.  What you described very definitely happens.  People get singled out by a clique, and pretty soon the situation spins out of control.  The negative feelings toward a person over relatively minor issues become exponentially exaggerated by the apparent “corroboration” of the negative feelings of others over their own relatively petty issues with the person in question.

But the law has also come to recognize and acknowledge the concept of a toxic employee.  Situations arise where the growing ill-ease toward a person goes beyond relatively petty issues.  When multiple individuals are repeatedly offended, insulted, manipulated, and/or feel threatened by the incessant negative behaviors of a given individual, a growing number of individuals find working with or around that person increasingly intolerable.  The work function becomes interrupted, the objective of the organization suffers, and in essence, the workplace begins to become “poisoned.”  

So when one of these cases is brought to court, in order to sort out the cases of water-cooler-grousing from the real toxic-employee cases, the questions that arise can go something like this:

What are the instances of disruptive behavior (or some examples of them)?  This first question is typically the most difficult, because toxic employees by their very nature frequently tend to act in insidious ways that are hard to describe, detect, recount and prove.  

Are the instances in question relatively isolated, ordinary instances of behavior that have become exaggerated in peoples’ minds by commiseration during water-cooler chatter, or is there an ongoing pattern of truly unacceptable behavior shown?

If there is an ongoing pattern in the evidence, would the group dynamic of a group of reasonable people find the objectionable behavior sufficiently disruptive to allow (or have no choice but to allow) the work function to be affected?  

How important to the function of the organization is a good working relationship between the individual and those around him who refuse to work with him?  (For instance, an ER triage environment requires a good working relationship between members of the team because the lives of others might be affected by the disruption; whereas a news investigators who work independently though in the same space may require little or no interaction in order for the individuals to get their work done).

If the organization requires a team environment (or even if it does not depending on the severity of the case), has a “strike mentality” begun to emerge among a significant number of employees who become increasingly unable or unwilling to work with the person?  How widespread is this mentality and what are the reasons for it?  The reasonable person standard is applied here to individuals and the reasons they provide.  Saying “Well just look – nobody else wants to work with him/her either and that just proves it” is not sufficient.

So while Gary (in your example) might be completely innocent of anything that would justify a group mentality forming against him, he may also not be so innocent either.  What has been going on for the past year or so that has people up in arms about Gary?  Is he just a regular (though perhaps somewhat irritating) Joe who is largely or wholly innocent of anything tending to justify such treatment? Or has Gary repeatedly insulted individuals in private when there are no witnesses, or spread rumors about others or focused negative attention on individuals in a deliberate attempt to foster suspicion and dislike among other employees by marring the victim's reputation in the eyes of co-workers, to drum them out, edify himself, or just for the fun of it?  Has he assigned himself the workplace "police force", keeping records on other employees’ comings, goings, and work activities even though it is not his assigned duty, then “anonymously” dropped such documentation in the supervisor’s in-box?  Has he hacked in and pored through people’s private e-mails trying to dig up dirt on others?  Has he perpetually picked on individuals about their weaknesses (privately or publicly), constantly stuck his nose in where it does not belong and criticized, threatened to report exaggerated claims and charges about work performance to the supervisor, or actually done so?  Has he prodded and provoked, and then reacted angrily and defensively and screamed or yelled at people every time they tell him to butt out, or has he tried to manipulate work product to make his own mistakes look like somebody else’s?  Has he made a general habit -- a modus operandi -- of being dishonest and blaming others for his own bad acts to the point of a total lack of trust and intolerability by several reasonable individuals?  Has he tried to sabotage others in order to get them fired, accused them of harassment or assault where nothing has happened, threatened to sue them, or otherwise posed a threat to their own work relationships, jobs, freedoms, and ability to get their work done???

<EDIT>  For a host of information on the "toxic employee" phenomenon, just google the term "toxic employee."  I leave it to you all to decide whether I have a point here or not.

Now what we have here in HC is not a working environment.  We don’t have to be a team.  I agree with you that the things Stiven has done are things we have all done from time to time.  But the same thing can be said for patterns of harassment and stalking.  The instances that make up such things are usually things we all do from time to time.  It’s the incessant, insidious nature of the things that makes them into something greater than their parts.  Maybe Stiven and I (and others) do not have to work together as a team.  Maybe our livelihood doesn’t depend on a smooth and cooperative relationship here in HC.  Maybe several of the elements that make a “toxic employee” are not relevant here.  But I will submit to you that people have a right to live and operate and communicate in their communities free from harassment.  

For Stiven it’s a pattern.  Any given post may not be anywhere near justification for this kind of response.  That I will grant you.  That is the genius behind such activities.  Striking and withdwaring, and saying, oh, so sorry, I didn't really mean it.  Hey, he apologized,  It was an innocent mistake.  Give the guy a break.  What's your problem?

It is the cumulative affect that is the issue here.  By its nature, it has to be that, and it should be that.  It is some sort of game to see how far he can push and prod and provoke, to the point where it became sufficiently harassing for me to try and get him to back off (not just me, but to back off of everybody).  

As you can tell I feel very strongly about this.  I have been around both types of Gary.  While I tend to stick up for the first type during those water-cooler conversations (which anybody who regularly reads my posts already knows), I have no tolerance for the latter type.  The reason for this is because I have watched them operate; I have seen the cleverness of the Stivens of the world lay waste to the people around them as they use that cleverness to clear a path to propel themselves into positions of ever-greater power, primarily because everybody around them are too afraid to stand up and say, ENOUGH. Well I am not afraid.  As I said, I will take the hits as they come and still believe I am doing the right thing.

Here in this communication community, the rules are very liberal because it is a communication community.  But some take advantage of that liberty by sniping and being hurtful, just within the guidelines, simply because they think they are clever and can get away with it.  Despite my warnings, Stiven has taken such liberties with me (and others, who by the way have never asked me to stand up for them and may not have appreciated it when I did). I have therefore in turn taken the liberty of calling him on it.  If he wants to snipe, then he will have to take the response he inspires in people like me who think it is unjust, uncalled for and after a while intolerable, and who are willing to say so out loud.  The reason I found the side comments by others lent some credibility to my own reactions was because I took them as genuinely grounded and not the product of some water-cooler-type corroboration, primarily because those comments came after the thread was posted, not before as any type of justification.  Perhaps I was wrong about that.  I don’t know.

I will tell you one thing though.  My bet is that Stiven will think twice before starting up another game of his.  Perhaps the thought will haunt him, for the rest of his life hopefully, that there is always a Peacemaker out there, lurking, waiting for him to push just hard enough before she pulls the cord and lets all the offal he has been dishing out to others, a turd at a time, come dumping right back on his head, all at once, to the humiliating applause of the fearful, aggravated, paralyzed many.  And if I set the example by speaking up and making my case, maybe others will be less fearful of standing up for themselves and speaking their piece in the future as well.

I definitely respect your general attacks on this thread, bort.  I think for the most part they are very good reasons, primarily because in your mind you find this case to be one of an ordinary Joe getting blown out of proportion.  I’d be willing to bet you that there are many judges out there who would review the evidence and reach the same conclusion as you have, my friend.  I’d also be willing to bet that there are an equal number who would not.

There is one more thing I want to point out.  I may be wrong about this, but one of the reasons I disagree with you about “threads like this” is because to my knowledge there have been no other such threads, at least not about anybody else, despite that people regularly take liberties in making strong statements and occasionally taking snipes.  For many of us that’s just in our nature.  The fact that Stiven is the only one in a community of thousands who has drawn this type of fire, on more than one occasion and from others than myself when I didn't even know about it, only strengthens my stance.  So this isn’t intended to be some sort of self-policing vehicle that is regularly used by one person to just pick on another to foster any type of political or social correctness.  In my mind, this case is totally unique.

Perhaps I have overreacted.  Perhaps not.  I will let each affected individual decide for himself or herself.  I just want you to know that this isn’t me writing “Larry Suggins smells” on the blackboard.  This is me pummeling the doo doo out of the kid who wrote it, cause I know Larry Suggins is disliked because he’s smart and homely and doesn’t have enough money to buy cool clothes.

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted November 16, 2003 12:04 AM

So you ARE a judge afterall??  wow!

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 16, 2003 12:33 AM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 17 Nov 2003

No, I am not a judge.  There are some similarities in my work to that of a judge though, and I have been practicing law (to include employment law) for about thirteen years now, which lent me some insights to some of this stuff.

Thanks for the compliment.  I am not deserving of it.
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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted November 16, 2003 01:00 AM

I was actually just joking with u

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted November 16, 2003 01:03 AM

SHe more formal
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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted November 16, 2003 02:07 AM

I plead not guilty your honor...

...but then again i dont think that matters since the judge in this case seems only to be interested in a conviction.

Just when the fire was down to its last flames you just had to add a couple of gallons of fuel right?

Quote:
Maybe our livelihood doesn’t depend on a smooth and cooperative relationship here in HC. Maybe several of the elements that make a “toxic employee” are not relevant here. But I will submit to you that people have a right to live and operate and communicate in their communities free from harassment.

As stated earlier:
i have made one funny comment about you. Which you unfortunately misinterpeted and then i apologized for it and took responsibility for it.

After that you have attacked me in this thread several times and you have made attacks like "Id take both as long as they are nothing like Stiven" post in truth thread.

And as far as i know im yet to see any kind of apologies of yours. Even for that bash post (which got a penalty) you have not apologized. Instead you attacked me again and blamed me for you recieving that penalty...

Please look over your own house before you start trash talking mine.

Last time i used a dictionary and checked the word "harassment it meant something similar to keep attacking someone for one reason or another.

Meaning one post can hardly be seen as harassment.. on the other hand repeated attacks in different threads and even making a thread which solely purpose is to mock me can.

So instead of showing off with all your big words maybe you should look more into the meaning of them instead.

Quote:
The reason for this is because I have watched them operate; I have seen the cleverness of the Stivens of the world lay waste to the people around them as they use that cleverness to clear a path to propel themselves into positions of ever-greater power, primarily because everybody around them are too afraid to stand up and say, ENOUGH. Well I am not afraid. As I said, I will take the hits as they come and still believe I am doing the right thing.


While we are getting to know each other...

Let me tell you this, i may not be an old person but i have been around alot and done many things due to my "low" age. As irresponsible as some of you claim me too be... ive been working at a school and according to the teachers i made a terrific job and some of them were so eager to get me stay that they would come up ideas to re arrange the whole system there. I still meet children from the classes i was teaching on the streets in my town who wants nothing else then me to come back. I know of parents that wondered where i was long time after i had quitted and said that they wanted me back.

Why? Because i was honest. I was honest enough to the teachers there who had been teaching for a long time to correct/questionize them after classes when i thought they had did something wrong. And i wasnt afraid to listen to their advice for me when they thought i did something wrong.

I was honest enough with the children to tell them how i felt about them making different things. I was prolly harsh on several occations, but i was fair. This fairness and honesty made several pupils talk to me about really personal things they were yet to tell anyone else.

I was honest enough to tell the parents how i thought their children had behaved instead of telling them what they wanted to hear. I remember one mom in particual whos son  had many though discussions with me and basically all other teachers there. Difference is while many of the others teachers didnt mention this when the mom spoke to them i did. And one week id been talking to this mom about bad things her son had done from monday to thursday... then on friday he was great.. happy, friendly and helpful if anything needed to be done. So his mother came to pick him up and asked me as usual how the day has been... i could hear from her voice that she just expected bad news, but i told her the truth.. he had been a great kid today and if would have same positive energy each day he would be a blessing to have around... And you should have seen the smile on the mothers face when i told her that..the warmth..happiness..it was great to see.. one of my colleagues enterd at that time and when the mother had left she asked me what had happend because she had never seen that mother so happy...

So why all this ranting then you might ask? well it has one common theme if you are yet to see that... and thats honesty. Be honest with me and im not that difficult to be around.

In my final years at school we were a class of 14 that ran a kind of a school buisness..is called UF here and is based on an american concept for young entrepeneaurs. Thing is being 14 persons in a school buisness is basically impossible since you see everyone each day and there are plenty of opportunities to get angry at each other. Which happend alot in our class... we had people in it not talking to each other for 6months and so on. And i always found myself somewhere in the middle of these things. But because of my honesty things went well, as a matter of fact my classmates always came to be before they wanted to hand something in because i could be harsh but i always told em exactly what i thought. Which in the long run meant that my classmates ended up making better work. So i was popular in my class which also shown when we were to review this internaly to our teachers because i was one of 2 i think how got top grade..which is the grade that flatters me most since it alot were based on my classmates opinions.

Ive also been problably the youngest captain of my football team ever. Which according to my coach is because of my good attitude and excellent leadership. A leadership which is alot based on open dialogue with both my coach and the other players...or honesty if you wanna call it that.

One big difference between RL and msg boards..or chats or just online talk in general is that you cant hear the voice of the person youre talking too nor can you see his/hers face expressions. Which is a great loss off course, firmly at jokes because you can never hear the tone of the writers voice or his/hers expression on the face... which otherwise reveals if its a joke or not.

And in RL i am a guy with attitude i accept that, i make fun out of my friends and people around me or myself for that matter without any doubts. Sometimes these jokes can be alittle too harsh.. i accept that too and usually when i notice that the person got offended i apologize and tries to pull of something else to divide the attention from that person.

Problem is..that while in RL everyone can see im joking because of the tone of my voice and the way i smile. For example here it doesnt work that way. All you see here is words, words and more words..and occationaly a smiley which also can be misinterpeted.

So then if you wanna see these words of a particular person only make up insults..then off course that is what you will see. Afterall there are no smile or no tone of voice that can tell you otherwise.

Thing is, i think more members here should give out the benefit of the doubt before judging. Give the person in question a chance and atleast talk to him/her before you try and judge this person on words... words which obviously can be interpeted in many ways.

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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted November 16, 2003 10:12 AM

umm... so YOU're a judge TOO?!?   OMG! I had no idea..

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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted November 16, 2003 08:29 PM

You know, I'm always suspicious of those who claim to speak for the silent majority.  Especially if that majority apparently has morality on their side.

Peacemaker, I always make sure I read your posts because they are well thought out and if they are biased, they tend to be biased the way I like, so it's all good.  This thread, however, has made me lose a lot of respect for you.  You're so wrapped up in self-righteousness that you can't see who has assigned themselves as the "police force" of the community.  Who is focusing negative attention in a deliberate attempt to foster suspicion and dislike.  Who has been blaming others for their own bad acts.   Who has threatened others.  Who, in short, is being the "toxic employee."  

I really think you should delete this thread and, quite frankly, sweep all this under the rug.  I know you won't though, because you're still convinced you're being HC's savior.  Or atleast, the savior of the right thinking silent majority.  Or those of us who aren't enlightened enough to see how right you are, well "the reason for it in this particular case will be clear in the end."

I'm not going to post in this thread again.  Have your fun Peacemaker, but you're damaging yourself as you do so.

By the way, you seem to think I'm concerned about being a hypocrite.  Show me someone who isn't a hypocrite and I'll show you an inflexible zealot.  Different situations mean different reactions.  If that's hypocricy, so be it.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 16, 2003 10:31 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 16 Nov 2003

You may be right, bort.  There's no doubt I have stooped in order to do this.  And in so doing, I may have committed some of the same wrongs against Stiven that I have argued he has committed.  I typically try not to get so entrenched in one way of thinking that I am beyond the ability to listen to reasonable counter-arguments.  Perhaps I have done that here.  I'll tell you one thing.  The whole darn thing is not just unusual for me, it's unheard of.  I don't know if that's evidence of entrenchment or evidence that I still believe this is the right thing to do despite its character.  I will also point out that you appear pretty entrenced in your position as well.

But on the other hand, how else to demonstrate to him without giving him a taste of it? I know it's Neandertal thinking, but it's my thinking at the moment....
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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted November 16, 2003 10:39 PM
Edited By: Valeriy on 17 Nov 2003

Well its kinda like this..

never argue with an idiot, because they bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Just ignore the foo

EDIT BY ADMIN: This is getting too close to breaching the COC. Penalties will be applied in the future. I recommend keeping the personal judgements to yourself and speaking about what actually happened.

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted November 17, 2003 08:18 AM

Oh ya mean if anyone argues with Stiven then Ah ok I get it hehe.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 17, 2003 05:05 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 19 Nov 2003

for bort

Bort, I considered IM’ing you with this message, then thought the better of it, since you said you don’t look too kindly on that sort of thing.  So here goes.

It makes me sad that you’re sore at me about this whole thing and that you have lost respect for me.  But you have explained very well why that has happened and I think your points are all excellent.

I wanted you to know that I am not beyond self-reflection where this issue is concerned.  Your posts in here have been (IMHO) some of the very best, and have set forth some of the most important considerations to have arisen here.  Your arguments have not simply been lost on me.  In fact I have struggled mightily with them. I am still working out in my own mind whether I have behaved dishonorably or not, but your posts certainly have got me thinking on it.

But there are some things I want you to know, and others as well.  You have repeatedly charged that I must have seen this fray coming when I posted the original thread.  I’ll tell you on my word I had no idea most of this would happen.  If you recall, I began the thread in a very tongue-in-cheek manner.  It was basically supposed to be lighthearted.  I had no way of knowing that other innocent people would be drug back into it by well-meaning others, and certainly did not foresee Stiven using that mistake against those people to turn this whole thing around.  Then, and only then, if you will note from a review of this thread, when other innocents were affected, did I grow deadly serious – enraged as a matter of fact.  The guy could have said just about anything to or about me and it would have all been part of the joke.  But when other innocent people got drug in and negatively affected, that’s a whole nother thing.  

So no, I did not see most of this coming, including my own rage.   In fact, that happening just revealed to me some of the reasons that perhaps people tippy-toe around this guy like they do.  I knew nothing of this other history until after the fact, and the whole turn this thread took because of it was a complete surprise to me.  I wouldn’t have foreseen all that in a million years.  I have no way of proving this contention and your judgment of my honor in its merit will have to stand or fall on its own right.

Also, if I have represented myself as standing for any kind of  “majority” then I should not have.  I have taken no poll and was presuming this based on the way I have seen others react to Stiven in threads.  I have only become aware of individuals who support this action after the fact.  That reality precludes any justification on my part that I was speaking for anybody other than myself and anyone else who may have agreed when I started this thing.  That I thought others might agree was just speculation on my part at that point.  Only after the fact did a few other people express support in this thing, and I will not claim those individuals constitute anywhere near a majority.  I’ll tell you one thing I didn’t expect, though, and that is such a strong voice on Stiven’s behalf.  So I must take that new information as a sign that perhaps my perception was not quite as universally held as I would have expected it to be.  It is also possible, though, that you and others who have done so are not in possession of all the facts.

And no, I don’t intend to be HC’s police force or any such thing.  I think you know that.  So if what I have done here is to make some sort of “citizen’s arrest,” then guilty as charged, sir.  But I still think people have a right to stand up to people like Stiven.  Call me a “police force” if you like.  Although the way in which I have gone about it may be another issue, it does not lessen my believe that people have such a right in the least.  ALso, I defy you to demonstrate any kinds of a pattern of cruelty and hatefulness toward other people on my part.

So now I am left with whether or not to delete this thread.  I know your stance is that I should.  However, whether this thread makes me look bad or not, to delete it at this point would just empower Stiven to retaliate further – against me and whomever else he wants -- and I will not do that.  I know that’s not how you perceive him.  But I do.  Sometimes we have to stand up for principles we believe in, even though it is unpopular in the eyes of others whose opinions we respect, and whose respect in turn is important to us.  If I were to back down every time others whom I respect disagreed with me then, at least in my experience, I would have left important things undone in my life.  So if this thread stands as a testament to my own dishonor, then so be it.  I am left with a choice between two evils, as it were, and will do my best with that choice.  The thread will stand because I honestly believe deleting it after it existed would be even more damaging to several people than if it had never happened.  

Thank you my friend for turning this thread into a more worthy debate about what the honorable thing is to do.

P.S. You seem to have misunderstood my comments about your hypocricy issue.  Actually I intended to say I don't think you're being hypocritical just for posting your strongly-held beliefs on a subject, but even if you were you were in good company (as you said, we all do it at times).

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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted November 18, 2003 01:28 PM

You're both being so extremely self-righteous it's hilarious. I loved Stiven's post about how indispensible he is to the local school. I've never seen such unabashed bragging in all my life.

"I was the saviour of the school I was a substitute at. They were willing to change the very foundations of the swedish school system to keep me."

And Peacemaker, come on. This is like rounding on the guy who hurts everybody else in a futile attempt to make himself feel better.

And all that "your posts are the best in the community, and I respect your words more than anything"-groveling is getting a bit nauseating. It's a bit too obvious that you're trying to get everyone on your side by being overly courteous to everyone but Stiven, so everyone will think that he must have done something really bad to deserve your hard-woken rage.

It's much more effective to just ignore him. Like I'm going to do when he replies to this post. Just watch. And learn.

Please, everyone, notice how I came in, chastised both combatants and solved the problem perfectly. There is a lesson to be learned here. Do you get it?

Greetings
DonGio
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted November 18, 2003 04:50 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 18 Nov 2003

Don Gio --

LOL!!! Do you suppose???

And yes, I really do respect bort, that much.  Always have.  I cannot tell you how genuine the sentiments I expressed were.  No joke my man.  If they appeared overly obsequious to you, you might note that I generally tend to try to be courteous and respectful (perhaps overly so) in the vast majority of my posts with practically everybody, even in contentious debates.  I'll say it once again, this whole thing it pretty much unheard of for me.

P.S. What's "rounding on" mean?
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DonGio
DonGio


Promising
Famous Hero
of Clear Water Mountain Clan
posted November 18, 2003 05:42 PM

I thought that was an english expression, similar to gang up on.

My pardons if I was mistaken.

But let's face it - the initial post here was not the best hidden insult I've ever read. Whether I agree with you or not is irrelevant. That was picking a fight, at best hoping to get one in on Sir Stiven without him understanding it. Given your somewhat strained relationship in the past, I doubt very much that you actually think so highly of Stiven as you apparently do the Keyoke.

So my final suggestion (well, it's really the first one all over again, but who cares?)is that you delete this thread, and if Sir Stiven does something that displeases you in the future, ignore him. And vice versa.

Sir Stiven won't "back down" because of this. This is fuel to his fire.

Greetings
DonGio
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