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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Spells and There Power/Durability
Thread: Spells and There Power/Durability
EvilLoynis
EvilLoynis


Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
posted November 30, 2003 04:48 PM
Edited By: EvilLoynis on 30 Nov 2003

Spells and There Power/Durability

    I don't know about the rest of you but I preferred the Heroes 3 spell power/durability system.  What I mean is that it was straight forward and easily calculated.

 I mean if you had 3 spell power and you cast magic arrow it did a basic 40 damage.  Calculated as- Total damage= P x 10 + 10,  where P= Spell power.  This could be augmented by +10 for each level in any school of magic, though it used only your highest school for this.  Or how if you had 3 spell power a spell like haste would last for 3 rounds.  In heroes 4 most spells last for the whole combat, except for things like Blind, Confuse, Terror and Cowardice, might be a few more don't remember them all.  But the point is that the majority of the spells like Bloodlust, Bless, Curse and simular spells last for the whole combat unless Dispelled or stolen.  It just seems kind of annoying.  Also it was annoying how the magic power system worked only in percentages.

  I don't mind the schools of magic the way they are in Heroes 4, but I would prefer the spell power/duration properties of heroes 3 for 5.

 Does anyone else have any ideas how to improve, or suggestions for a new spell system?
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Draco
Draco


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 04, 2003 07:19 PM

ya i prefer the spell power and knowledge idea from h3 but i prefer the attack and defence from h4 (although if there are no hereos in combat, bring back the whole h3 style would be good)

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted December 05, 2003 07:08 AM

I was thinking of having a Library instead of having mage guild.

Heroes must research to get new spells. The spells will be in another tree structure like that with building towns.

Research will be done by heroes. The amount each hero attains will be based on that heroes overall magic power. In other words the hero will provide 1/4 of the hero's combined total of spell power and knowledge (rounded up)

Building a Great Library will double all output of research from each hero. Any heroes stays in a town will a library provides double output of research for that hero. Any hero that stays in a town with the Great Library will 3 output. Only one Great Library may be built per player. Just like Capitol.

Once a spell has been researched completely, every hero (for that player) automatically can use the spell. You may also trade spells with other players.
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EvilLoynis
EvilLoynis


Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
posted December 06, 2003 01:45 PM

  But would there be certain spells you are not allowed to research?  Like  will there be different classes of magic like Fire, Water, Wind and Earth like in 3? or Order, Chaos and so on like in 4?

  We all know that certain spells nobody would bother researching so will there need to be certain prerequisites?
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted December 06, 2003 02:10 PM

I'd like it to be between what Heroes 3 and Heroes 4 have to offer.

- Spell duration would depend on investment in spell improvement colleges (Spirituality, Meditation and so on in H4.) +1 round/skill slot if invested in allied group, +1 round/every two skills slot if invested in other non-hostile group, and no bonus if invested in hostile group.

The could also be a primary skill spellpower which would improve duration, though this would be something like 2-4 points needed to gain +1 round in duration.

To take a H4 example. If you cast a Life spell, then each slot in Spirituality gives you +1 round in duration, two slots in Meditation gives you 1 round in duration, and Pyromancy gives you no bonues at all when casting the Life spell.

On the spell schools I'd prefer to have it a bit easier to learn higher level spells than in H4 (since the steep skill requirements in H4 tended to require that the spells themselves have to be too powerful or they wouldn't be worth the effort of learning to begin with.)

A spell group could be two-three skills:
One main skill which allows you to cast spells of a certain level.
One auxiliary skill which improves effectiveness of a spell, or spell duration.
And optionally one add-on skill which is tied to the main skill in some way.

Prequisites:
Up to advanced in any of the three skills can be learnt without restriction.
Basic in the other two skills is required to get Expert in any of the skills.
Advanced in the other two skills is required to get Master in any of the skills.
Expert in the other two skills is required to get Grand Master in any of the skill.

Example: death magic, animate dead, necromancy.

Mage Guild costs should be as it was in Heroes 3 (with high resource requirements), so the higher levels becomes a late game building.

I would also consider adding additional spell to the Mage guild in exchange for precious resources and some gold.

The precious reqource would be the one, which is tied to the town, and the cost would vary between spell levels. Say: 1, 3, 5, 10, 20 precious resources (+ Gold) to get one additional level 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 spell.

You could be limited to five additional spells, and have to build them from level 1 and up. You could, however, sacrifice a higher level slot to get more low level spells.

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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted December 07, 2003 01:19 AM

Quote:
  But would there be certain spells you are not allowed to research?  Like  will there be different classes of magic like Fire, Water, Wind and Earth like in 3? or Order, Chaos and so on like in 4?

  We all know that certain spells nobody would bother researching so will there need to be certain prerequisites?


The crappy spells would be the base prerequisites, these would take like a day to research, however the one you choose will lead down separate branches to the good spells. Or maybe this would be an incentive for UbiSoft to get rid of all those crappy useless spells that everyone hates.
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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted December 07, 2003 01:24 AM

Quote:
Or maybe this would be an incentive for UbiSoft to get rid of all those crappy useless spells that everyone hates.


No we need the crappy spells!  It adds a "piss-off" factor to the game.  Like when you are praying for town portal but instead you get water walk.
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted December 07, 2003 01:27 AM

but what's the point if you are going to choose your spell.
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RedSoxFan3
RedSoxFan3


Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
posted December 07, 2003 01:31 AM

If you get to choose the spells you are going to research, then what's the point in having the crappy random spells.
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted December 07, 2003 03:26 AM

the piss-off factor vs something that is guaranteed is a valid point imho, as far as i remember psychology.

'mage guild' sounds somewhat similar to 'unsavuory joke' in our language, btw. sometimes i think it's good that there's a chance of getting useless spells, sometimes (e.g. when there are not many towns or i meet the opponent early in the game) i think it's bad.

the homm2 or homm3 situation isn't really bad imho, but maybe it would even be a little bit better if library that gives you additional spells in wizard town was easier to build. in that case the other towns would really have to blame it on themselves while the wizard enjoys lower risk of getting useless spells only, and the context of the piss-off facor would be more obvious.

maybe getting a second top level spell cheaply with library would be another problem, but building top level mage guild doesn't usually happen too fast anyway.
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EvilLoynis
EvilLoynis


Famous Hero
The Dark Shadow
posted December 09, 2003 09:57 AM

Would we still want 5 levels of skills like in Heroes 4?  In some ways it was better but in others it sucked.

Also what if some skills aren't allowed to be learned by some alignment heroes???  Like the clerics/priests of the life town, or whatever is the equivilant, not being able to learn Death magic spells.  And Death Knight not allowed to learn Leadership.

Also I think I would like the ability points that another thread mentioned to up your skills and or stats.
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"I am both selfish and instictive.  I value nature and the world around me as means to an end as well as an end in itself; at best I ... too long to display...

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regnus_khan
regnus_khan


Responsible
Supreme Hero
[ Peacekeeper of Equilibris ]
posted December 11, 2003 09:08 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:24, 13 Jun 2009.

Yes, I do agree with you Loynis.

I think that the count of spell levels should depend from the town. Just like in HoMM3, but only there would be magic skill just for the town.(Life Magic for Haven, etc.)

Yah, and I think I would prefer the spell power durability
and knowledge. But for some reasons, I think knowledge would give just basic number of spell points - 5 or 10 per knowlege lev. Another part - spell point increase, regeneration and spell effectiveness should increase by advancing skill level, ex.: Basic Conjuration to Advanced.

P.S. Don't look at the mistakes...:/



Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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