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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted December 15, 2003 09:58 PM |
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We just freed Iraq from one of the most sadistic tyrants of our day. So we deserve to be bashed...why?
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 15, 2003 10:49 PM |
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Haven't you realized yet, Aquaman, that doing good things for the world is shunned by the rest of the world? 
How could we do such a terrible thing like remove a bloodthirsty dictator from power?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 16, 2003 01:47 AM |
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The fact that it took so long to cease supporting him and oppose him is something all nations should be ashamed of, and America is one of the foremost of these. It's also of debate as to the reasons the Allies brought this action, some allied government members seem to have friends profiting from the conflict (again) and Iraq's problems are not yet finished.
Is all this solely the fault of the US? No, nor does this take away from the kudos of removing an evil man (though one they supported earlier in his career), but it does mean some groups of people have reasoning to believe the US is not the saintly force of world politics it's sometimes portrayed as here. To deny that is just plain blinkered.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 16, 2003 02:36 AM |
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Quote:
was the first mass producer of automobiles.
Yep and was also the first mass producer of depleted uranium munitions and then used them in residential areas in Iraq. Is also the inventer of the new bullets that fracture like glass when they hit and rip all ur insides out - yay!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted December 16, 2003 02:36 AM |
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"We?" I didn't know you were a veteran who has spent the last several months in a snowhole of a desert getting shot at. Let me thank you for the service you have provided. I am sorry that you were sent halfway across the world, away from your friends and family and I hope you weren't injured.
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Drive by posting.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 16, 2003 04:49 AM |
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Quote:
"We?" I didn't know you were a veteran who has spent the last several months in a snowhole of a desert getting shot at. Let me thank you for the service you have provided. I am sorry that you were sent halfway across the world, away from your friends and family and I hope you weren't injured.
*wonders whom Bort is refferring to*
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted December 16, 2003 09:42 PM |
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Anyone who says "we" just freed Iraq. Or "we" need to show strength and resolve. Or anytime that "we" need to do something which means "they" need to do something while "I" sit comfortably at home.
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Drive by posting.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 16, 2003 10:57 PM |
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"We" as a country. "You" may think it was wrong, but "we" know it was right and just. "You" may think about doing good for the world, but "we" act on it. I know "I" will do what I can to help the world.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 17, 2003 12:50 AM |
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It's much easier to say such things than to be prepared to risk your life for them.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 17, 2003 01:58 AM |
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It's also easy to say things like that to people you don't know very well. I would fight and possibly die for what I believe in. Possibly, because I don't plan to lose the fight.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 17, 2003 02:08 AM |
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I expect you'll be signing up for the marines or a.n. other unit as soon as possible then. Whatever the reasoning, this "we" and "you" is both generalistic and niaeve.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 17, 2003 02:12 AM |
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Fighting for what you believe in and for your country doesn't mean joining the Marines.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 17, 2003 02:19 AM |
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Please don't be pathetic enough to drag another thread way out of topic simply to make a point about what you do or don't mean, if you intend to risk your life in some form to make things as you wish them to be, then suggest how you wish to do this rather than expect people to guess.
My point on "we" and "you" which was the more relevant one of the post though still stands, categorising people in such a way is as naieve as it is a generalisation. I was hoping you'd address this as well actually
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 17, 2003 02:46 AM |
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I don’t understand, PH. Bort can say “we” and the like, but when I do it it is a generalization (which is obvious, it was supposed to be) and is “niaeve”.
And I’m dragging it off-topic, even though you brought it up?
Wasn’t it a generalization to say that to fight for one’s country, one has to join the Marines?
Oh, and it’s naïve.
Feel free to respond privately if you don’t want any more “off-topic” discussion.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 17, 2003 03:03 AM |
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Quote:
I don’t understand, PH. Bort can say “we” and the like, but when I do it it is a generalization (which is obvious, it was supposed to be) and is “niaeve”.
The argument could be used against more than yourself, it was directed to those who might over-use such terms rather than specifically. I don't think bort did generalise though, he merely said that he was sick of people who sat snug at home in the states and claimed some of the credit for the overthrowing as if they were there.
Quote:
And I’m dragging it off-topic, even though you brought it up?
I started the conversation perhaps by asking for clarification of the term "we" from bort. The continuation of this was purely your own and Bort's though, I merely remarked on the problems of generalising people in such a way. The fact that the criticism may have appeared solely at you is due to you being the only person to reply so far.
Quote:
Wasn’t it a generalization to say that to fight for one’s country, one has to join the Marines?
Actually, if you read the post again you will notice the words or a.n. other unit (ie any other formation) allowing for the theory you could serve the military in a number of ways and means. I alluded to the military form of service rather than political or otherwise due to Bort talking about the military in his first post, comments about being shot at in the desert and so on. It's possible this can be taken to be war-reporter I guess, but from the tone and discussion it indicates some form of army profession, hence my remark.
And that part has been there since I made the post, therefore I generalised nothing, you did not read or if you did, you did not understand fully, that is not my problem. Somehow though I fail to see why saying "are you and others not also" justifies generalising on your own part.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 19, 2003 03:49 AM |
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Why indeed...
I don't really understand hatred myself but I've heard one thing and proven another.
The pastor at the church I went to with my wife says the reason America is hated is because of our pride. He says we should have humility rather than pride. That can be neither proven nor disproven.
In the field of usable proof backed by real facts and witnesses there is one such answer that could be the reason for hating the U.S.
Civil Liberties
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 24, 2003 06:17 AM |
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I don't see the reason why being proud of your country is wrong. I love my country, I am proud of my country and what it stands for, and I will "fight" to make it better.
If that means stepping on the toes of those who hate me and how I think, so be it.
I don't like it when I see the US flag burned and stepped on in the street. It is disrespectful, pure and simple.
I consider myself a patriotic person.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 24, 2003 08:50 AM |
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The trouble most "patriots" have is defining the difference between those that hate them and those that simply disagree with what their country does. People burn flags because they have no other way of expressing their irritation at the USA and it's policies, I personally couldn't care if someone burnt the Union Jack, as long as it's not mine
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted December 24, 2003 05:33 PM |
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People burn flags because they have no other way of expressing their irritation at the USA and it's policies
Maybe they should try a little harder, doesn't seem like a thought out decision.
Quote:
I personally couldn't care if someone burnt the Union Jack, as long as it's not mine
That is the differance between the US and the rest of the world. Pride in their country, at least for the majority of Americans, I don't know about some people here...
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted December 24, 2003 05:53 PM |
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I have pleanty of pride in my country, I don't attach my pride to a piece of cloth like it's some sacred object, that is the difference. Patriotism is about more than worrying about people burning your flag. The pride I feel in being British is not diminished because someone else feels angry at my nation, that's defensive patriotism which is one step from nationalism.
And as for "thought out" since this is an entirely different culture we are usually refferring to that is their choice, your countrymen stooped to renaming food and asking for their dead servicemen returned, so let's not get picky about whom cannot think things through properly shall we?
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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