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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Gay people
Thread: Gay people [ This thread is 38 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 (28) 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 ]
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted July 21, 2007 09:12 AM

Believe me, if the kid goes to school, he would much rather be an orphan than have two dads.
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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted July 21, 2007 01:11 PM

Quote:
Believe me, if the kid goes to school, he would much rather be an orphan than have two dads.

Children don't know what's best for them.  Having two loving parents - even of the same gender - is better in the long run than having none at all.

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Tenaka
Tenaka


Famous Hero
Makes sense
posted July 21, 2007 02:50 PM

I personally totally approve of gay marriage. I could write a lot about it, but I'd probably repeat most of the things that have been stated in this thread. I refer to The Gootch's post if you want to know why...
Summarized: It's just a piece of paper that officially declares that you love each other, for ever, and of course, there's the whole health insurance and tax advantages, but I don't think that's the reason gay couples want to be married. However, what I do think is important is that they gain the right to be really called married, such as - from the Gootch's post - claiming one's body, etc.

What I do have doubts about, is adoption. Not that I don't think gay couples are bad parents. Not at all, I guess there are both good and bad parents between them. And I don't think that their children will be gay, too. In fact, probably exactly the opposite, since children try to be as different as possible from their parents, and that won't be different for gay couples, either.
The biggest problem is how being gay, being a 'fag/queer', is still regarded as somthing bad in society. Face it, it's on TV, it's on the internet, it's even in everyday conversations, being gay is either ridiculous, funny, or just plain shocking. Imagine what it's like if they're your parents. Kids can be cruel. Especially is they're about 6 to 10 years old. That's bound to be even just somewhat traumatising. So, as long as the society doesn't change this attitude towards gay people, I don't think that children should be adopted by them. For the children's sake.
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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted July 21, 2007 04:15 PM

Quote:
The biggest problem is how being gay, being a 'fag/queer', is still regarded as somthing bad in society. Face it, it's on TV, it's on the internet, it's even in everyday conversations, being gay is either ridiculous, funny, or just plain shocking. Imagine what it's like if they're your parents. Kids can be cruel. Especially is they're about 6 to 10 years old. That's bound to be even just somewhat traumatising. So, as long as the society doesn't change this attitude towards gay people, I don't think that children should be adopted by them. For the children's sake.


I know lots of people have this concern, and I'm sure it's going to be the case in some instances - just like children are victimized because they are overweight, red hair, wear glasses, or whatever. In fact, I'm not even sure children that age will really understand what it means that one of them has two "fathers" or two "mothers", and to use that as a reason not to allow it will not better the case - the only way homosexuality can be "normalized" is through exposure.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2007 05:55 PM

has anyone noticed that mr. shadey has failed to answer my last post to him? was there too much truth to it? can he not at least acknowledge the fact that someone is able to argue without the attack?
call this what you will, but i am quite dissapointed in this fact that he can't hold a decent debate over this subject matter. ignoring someone after asking for a reply can't return the favor, shame, shame.
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If you don't want the truth, then don't ask.

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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
and Light
posted July 21, 2007 06:21 PM

That you're willing to engage in a crusade doesn't necessarily mean your eager to participate in an honest duel.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2007 06:43 PM

alc,

how right you are. that was put perfectly
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Setitetart
Setitetart


Known Hero
Reality check....
posted July 21, 2007 07:03 PM
Edited by Setitetart at 19:13, 21 Jul 2007.

Quote:
has anyone noticed that mr. shadey has failed to answer my last post to him? was there too much truth to it? can he not at least acknowledge the fact that someone is able to argue without the attack?
call this what you will, but i am quite dissapointed in this fact that he can't hold a decent debate over this subject matter. ignoring someone after asking for a reply can't return the favor, shame, shame.


Tsk tsk...but honestly GC...what did you really expect? I am of the opinion that he isnt so unlike the toxic MD lurkers on Myspazz anyway.

And what alcibiades said hit it on the head as well.

Quote:
That you're willing to engage in a crusade doesn't necessarily mean your eager to participate in an honest duel.


Also I wholeheartedly agree that so long as a child has 2 parents that love, guide and nurture them, what does it matter if those parents are the same gender.
Using the cop out that "kids are cruel" as an argument, as shabby as it is, as to why a kid shouldn't have 2 gay parents...I say that kids are going to be little jerks to each other any way. Since the dawn of dirt, kids have always ferreted out things to make fun of other kids with.

Last night my husband and I were having quite the debate on this topic thanks in part to this post.
He swore that giving gays the right to get married would be a disaster...because they would get ...free money?!?!?! (WHAT?!?)
LOL
He was referring to the tax breaks that married couples get (and even providing our said mock gay couple had children we also looked up the EIC that a lot of families get) and when I tossed out an IRS booklet and asked him to explain to me HOW they would get "free" anything filing taxes...he couldn't do it. (Hehehe...I win)
Point is they'd file like anyone else. and if a refund was due it wouldnt be any greater than anything else anyone else would get.

Leave it to my husband to bring money into an already askew topic.
LOL *smirks*

Quote:
Quote:
Honest duel

Let's see, HC has turned into a haven for extreme liberalism. Anyone who dares to express a view that's even the least bit conservative is immediately attack by 50 people.

Honest duel? Hardly.

Liberals only. Alternate viewpoints not welcome here.




Amen
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted July 21, 2007 07:09 PM

Quote:
Honest duel

Let's see, HC has turned into a haven for extreme liberalism. Anyone who dares to express a view that's even the least bit conservative is immediately attack by 50 people.

Honest duel? Hardly.

Liberals only. Alternate viewpoints not welcome here.


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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2007 07:12 PM

yes, i knew he wouldn't answer the post, that is why i put the post out there that shows that he is showing no honor what-so-ever. that his convictions on this subject matter are mostly on the surface. i must point these things out for him.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2007 07:22 PM

Binabik,

now i bet if you were to ask Setite, and Vf, you would find out i am far from being a liberal. i see both sides of things, the conservative, and the liberal, and to tell the truth, the liberals make me very embarrassed to call myself a democrat.

to call me a liberal is an insult to my intelligence. i don't appreciate it in any way. i see human rights being infringed on in this issue. much like the liberals attack my rights of choice when it comes to, among others, the right to decide if i want to wear a seat belt or wear a helmet. when did they get the right to tell me that i can't make a decision of this sort for myself. i do believe you owe me an apology.

as for debating, i am quite fair, i will give you your point if it so deserves.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted July 21, 2007 07:24 PM

I think you are misinterpreting my post. I'm saying YOU'RE side of the issue has no honor.



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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 21, 2007 07:35 PM

that is a judgement, and that has no honor. truely believing in the hamn race has honor. giving all humans their human rights, that has honor. telling me my beliefs have no honor, that is dishonorable. i am waiting for the apology
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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 21, 2007 08:15 PM

I have pretty open mind over things considering i'm from religious family. I don't approve gay marriages but i don't do anything against it either. Everyone can live their life how they want as long it don't hurt others. That brings me to adoption.

I can approve adoption but i can just imagine how hard that would be for the child to grow up. Everyone in school gonna know that the parents are both women/men and they will tease him/her over it. Others childrens parents might not approve gay parents and it sure will reflect from their childrens. The image what we are giving to our children is most important. In "normal" family parent says to you "mens are whit womens, womens are whit mens." Now what would the gay parents say to their child? "Don't do what we do" (Of course they say "it's your own choice") but for sure this will mess up the kids head. What there is to act..

I might forget something what i wished to say (i'm in bit of hurry atm.

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted July 21, 2007 08:27 PM

@GC

You've misinterpreted again. I also just noticed that I completely missed your post that began with "now i bet if you were to ask Setite".

My original quote was about the idea of an "honest duel". I never mentioned you except to say that I thought you misinterpreted my post. And I never said you were dishonest or had no honor. I said "your side" which is entirely different than "you". I stressed the word "your" (correct spelling this time) to differentiate your side from Shadey's side.

My first statement was not just about this thread or this subject, but about the general way things have been around here for some time. It's a general statement saying that IMO 50 people ganging up on one is not what I consider an "honest duel". When a person expresses their opinion or belief, and they are attacked and ridiculed for that belief it is not an "honest duel".

Again I stress that my statements weren't directed at you except to correct what I thought was a misinterpretation on your part.


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Tenaka
Tenaka


Famous Hero
Makes sense
posted July 21, 2007 08:51 PM

Quote:


I say that kids are going to be little jerks to each other any way. Since the dawn of dirt, kids have always ferreted out things to make fun of other kids with.



Yes, but they're cruel enough the way they are. Kids are taught not to be mean to kids who are overweight, have glasses, etc, but I doubt anyone's ever been taught to live 'fag children' alone...In fact, I think a lot of gay couples would agree to this...If everyone on here thinks that this should be possible, Binabik's absolutely right.

P.S: Leave Shadey alone. Come on, there have been made 2 threads that just plain flamed him. I think that he has got the point by now. This is a discussion, not an open war, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's not coming back anymore - in fact, he'd have a good reason for it -. I don't agree with him, either, but can't you all talk that out like normal people?

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 22, 2007 01:02 AM

Quote:
has anyone noticed that mr. shadey has failed to answer my last post to him? was there too much truth to it? can he not at least acknowledge the fact that someone is able to argue without the attack?
call this what you will, but i am quite dissapointed in this fact that he can't hold a decent debate over this subject matter. ignoring someone after asking for a reply can't return the favor, shame, shame.



Surprise surprise!!!!!!

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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2007 01:30 AM

I'll reply to this since several people have been absolutely begging for it.

Quote:
Let us take this one at a time shall we, we don't want anyone to get lost here. bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. for your information i did look it up in the dictionary. don't wish to be accused of not knowing what i am talking about. so your use of the word against crimes is actually the wrong use of the word, please try again.


First it's your opinion that I'm obsinately or intolerantly devoted to my my opinons.  If enough evidence is provided to sway me to change my opinion then I will.

Quote:
the use of the bible is a cop out in all matters of what is right when it comes to human, notice the word please, human rights. it actually makes you look like you are above all things, your gain. it actuality, it shows ignorance of the whole subject matter. there is no real world experience to fall back on. i on the other hand have many friends and even family that are gay, i would never pass judgement on them.

i never said that i couldn't find passages, i said that in the four books of christ, whom took on all the biggest issues, never once mentioned anything about gays, good or bad. if you find one passage, make that even half a passage, then i will bow down to you, but don't hold your breath, as i have been through all four books of christ, there is nothing. that includes the king james, the good news, as well as twenty other bibles versions. christ is the model, and he constantly corrected his disiples when they took the old teachings and used them instead of the love thy neighbor attitude. let me put it this way, if the disiples had had their way mary magdeline would have been stoned to death. according to the old testament.


I've never claimed to be above all things.  I have claimed that God is above all things.  It would be more two sided for me to NOT claim devine authority in the Bible.  Using real world experience is just as short sighted in my opinion.  Your own point of view is the only way you can make decisions goign that route.  It is true that the Bible warns people about judging others, however I'm not condemning anyone.  Simply warning people that a certain behavior will bring upon themselves God's condemnation is not judgemental imo.  It would also be impossible for a church to remain stable if they allowed everyone to decide what is doctrine.

Quote:
as for your church, i am sorry for you and those around you. i am also quite conservative when it comes to "religious" matter. i use the term religious for there is no better term to use to describe it. but you see as a conservative i have learned that human rights come before personal bias'. you seem not to be able to seperate the two. my sect is able to see past bias and give everyone the same chances. that not only includes gay as pastors, but it also means an open communion, free to ask why, and many other freedoms to take control of our own experiences.
Quote:


You ought to explain human rights a bit more in this case.  I see your use of the word as an excuse to do anything.  Would a Satanist or a Wiccan be allowed to preach the sermon at your church?  What about even more questionable behavior other than homosexuality?  How far are you and your church willing to go?

Quote:
if those in your congregation truely loved gay people, they would not be trying to hold them down to a sub human level. they would be supportive of the person that is there. i in no way wish to attack anyone, and if you think that is what i am doing then you really have a long ways to go in trying to figure out the human race. i am engaging you in what i feel is an intelligent debate, that neither of us will win between the two of us, i don't think that your bias' will allow you to see past your nose. as for tolerance and love, believe me i know what love is, and tolerance is something every man, woman, and child should be learning in this world of today. for this world has thrown us into a situation that makes everyone a neighbor. a possible friend, and even the possible enemy. love is for god, and god says that we shall not judge. well i don't judge, it seems to me that you and your congregation do judge, how will god look at you?


When have I ever said that homosexuals are sub human?  It seems to me that you're inventing hate crimes against me.  You don't judge?  Your entire post is spent judging me and my church.  Don't you think that in itself is questionable behavior?

Quote:
bigot, refer to first paragraph. i am no bigot in any sense of the word. i accept people for who they are, not what i think they should be, now that doesn't mean i like everyone around me, it means i am tolerant of each and everyone i am around. i don't discriminate due to race, color, creed, or sexual preferance. these are private things to each and everyone. i stay out of their business. it is not for me to say how they live, that is their choice, and if god doesn't like it then they will pay, but i don't feel that is what is going to happen. i feel and believe deep in my heart, that god wishes all of us to love each other on the same level ground.


If that truely was the case I wouldn't have seen your post in reply to mine would have I?  If you were truely tolerant you have just ignored my posts because you wouldn't have had a problem with them. You're caught in a trap just the same as I am.  I have my opinion about a behavior that I find questionable.  You don't like that opinion so you make a post debating the point.  That in itself is intolerant of my position.  Why don't we forget the tolerance idea because the idea is self defeating.  

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 22, 2007 01:40 AM
Edited by violent_flower at 01:42, 22 Jul 2007.

A Satanist and a Wiccan have more tolerance then your typical Christian.

Bite on that Tay, Shadey can have a bit too but I think he will decline...
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted July 22, 2007 01:40 AM

You seem to know more about gay sex then even the bible.
Are   you sure there is nothing else your holding back on us Shadey ?
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