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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Gay people
Thread: Gay people This thread is 38 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 28 29 30 31 32 ... 38 · «PREV / NEXT»
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted July 22, 2007 04:11 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 04:13, 22 Jul 2007.

Quote:
Quote:
You extrapolated my comparison of Hitlers dislike of Jews to whatever spin-doctor wrote the bible and his dislike of gays.


Quote:
Hitler didn't like the Jews. They wanted these men who were 'different' to be dead.


That isnt' a direct comparison?



Not to you....?





Quote:

I don't appreciate the false accusation, but regardless I've never condemned anyone.


Except gays. And people who don't worship your god. And people who covet their neighbour or have sex before marriage or eat alot.

Actually pretty much everyone except Ned Flanders






and I love how you pick and choose which parts of the post you feel like responding to and ignore the rest
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 22, 2007 04:14 AM

Quote:
I don't appreciate the false accusation, but regardless I've never condemned anyone.


Hey anyone got a spare box of tissues anywhere someone is about ready to cry us a contradicting river.






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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2007 04:18 AM

Quote:

Except gays. And people who don't worship your god. And people who covet their neighbour or have sex before marriage or eat alot.

Actually pretty much everyone except Ned Flanders


Like I said much earlier in this thread.  People can do whatever they want to do.  Christians will not stop them.  However, do not expect Christians to condone their actions.  I never said that people cannot do what ever they want.  If someone hates Christians and wants to do whatever they wish, then thats fine.  They don't get to step up into the church and preach the Sunday morning sermon.  

You people are wrongly accusing me of going out of my way to beat other and force them to accept my point of view.  

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted July 22, 2007 04:19 AM

YEA BUT YOU SHADEY?
What about you.
Lets be honest now.
Your a big CHristian & you vow to the book.
Now lets get to it.

What do you feel about real people & who they decide to become?

We know when your just saying what you want us to hear.
Lets here some truth here?

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2007 04:23 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 04:27, 22 Jul 2007.

Quote:
Quote:

Except gays. And people who don't worship your god. And people who covet their neighbour or have sex before marriage or eat alot.

Actually pretty much everyone except Ned Flanders


Like I said much earlier in this thread.  People can do whatever they want to do.  Christians will not stop them.  However, do not expect Christians to condone their actions.  I never said that people cannot do what ever they want.  If someone hates Christians and wants to do whatever they wish, then thats fine.  They don't get to step up into the church and preach the Sunday morning sermon.  

You people are wrongly accusing me of going out of my way to beat other and force them to accept my point of view.  


Perhaps but you seem to be conveniently forgetting the fact that you allow them to do whatever they want, yet still threaten them with an eternity of suffering if they do?


That's like someone putting a gun to your head and saying "don't be my slave if you don't want to, but I'll kill you if you don't."
whether or not you believe he will actually pull the trigger is up to you.







and actually I'm forced to go to church in order to have an education... there's no excuse saying "I can't go in, I'm athiest"
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
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Almost there.
posted July 22, 2007 04:24 AM

Quote:
They don't get to step up into the church and preach the Sunday morning sermon.


Of coarse not, why have everyday people with intelligent things to say  come up in your church and preach the Sunday sermon? This would be unheard of, because we all know that as your preacher gets on bended knee to present his unexposed attraction to little boys, you are all cheering him on because he has a PHD.

Congratulations.....You win, now I see the way....Please someone give me directions to Shadeys church as I have sinned.    

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Setitetart
Setitetart


Known Hero
Reality check....
posted July 22, 2007 04:28 AM
Edited by Setitetart at 04:30, 22 Jul 2007.

Quote:
Quote:
They don't get to step up into the church and preach the Sunday morning sermon.


Of coarse not, why have everyday people with intelligent things to say  come up in your church and preach the Sunday sermon? This would be unheard of, because we all know that as your preacher gets on bended knee to present his unexposed attraction to little boys, you are all cheering him on because he has a PHD.

Congratulations.....You win, now I see the way....Please someone give me directions to Shadeys church as I have sinned.    



Forgive her Father for she knows not what she does.
That was soooo worth the point.
I feel better now.
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~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral

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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2007 04:29 AM

Quote:
Quote:
They don't get to step up into the church and preach the Sunday morning sermon.


Of coarse not, why have everyday people with intelligent things to say  come up in your church and preach the Sunday sermon? This would be unheard of, because we all know that as your preacher gets on bended knee to present his unexposed attraction to little boys, you are all cheering him on because he has a PHD.

Congratulations.....You win, now I see the way....Please someone give me directions to Shadeys church as I have sinned.    



VF aside from your comments being completely peverse and uncalled for.  They are also a personal attack.

It doesn't even make sense.  If we consider homosexuality to be a sin, then we're certainly not going to be cheering on our pastor if he's a pedophile.  

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 22, 2007 04:36 AM


A personal attack, this has come very common for you to say. Could you explain where this personal attack is? Hey if you really think that in churches all over the world this same type of sin is not hidden from the members of the church for fear of monetary lose and embarrassment, then you really have some research to do.

Evangelist, right? Can't wait till they take over the government so our children can all go to Jesus Camp with your kids. .  
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 22, 2007 08:28 AM

Quote:
@GC

You've misinterpreted again. I also just noticed that I completely missed your post that began with "now i bet if you were to ask Setite".

My original quote was about the idea of an "honest duel". I never mentioned you except to say that I thought you misinterpreted my post. And I never said you were dishonest or had no honor. I said "your side" which is entirely different than "you". I stressed the word "your" (correct spelling this time) to differentiate your side from Shadey's side.

My first statement was not just about this thread or this subject, but about the general way things have been around here for some time. It's a general statement saying that IMO 50 people ganging up on one is not what I consider an "honest duel". When a person expresses their opinion or belief, and they are attacked and ridiculed for that belief it is not an "honest duel".

i think that is an apology, not sure, but i will take that. maybe we both misinterpeted eac

Again I stress that my statements weren't directed at you except to correct what I thought was a misinterpretation on your part.




i think that is an apology, not sure, but i will take that. maybe we both misinterpeted each other. so i apologize as well. the thing of it is, i am trying to do this debate
this subject one on one, of course others are going to intercede, i have no control of what they say. they are passionate of the way they feel about the subject matter. as long as he deals with me directly i will have no problem.

i want to hear all he has to say, but i also want him to read everything i say. he seems to have a habit of taking only what he wants to read and then turning it around. that doesn't make for a fair debate as well.

the thing that upset me the most was that you used my words to say that it isn't going to be fair, that i take personally, you must understand that. that in all fairness says that you are pointing to me. so now you understand why i got upset.

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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 22, 2007 09:07 AM
Edited by GothCowboy at 09:14, 22 Jul 2007.

Quote:
I'll reply to this since several people have been absolutely begging for it.

Quote:
Let us take this one at a time shall we, we don't want anyone to get lost here. bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices. for your information i did look it up in the dictionary. don't wish to be accused of not knowing what i am talking about. so your use of the word against crimes is actually the wrong use of the word, please try again.


First it's your opinion that I'm obsinately or intolerantly devoted to my my opinons.  If enough evidence is provided to sway me to change my opinion then I will.
Quote:

the definition was due to your use in describing crimes, there is no denying that one on your side. i was mearly correcting the usage of the word.




Quote:
the use of the bible is a cop out in all matters of what is right when it comes to human, notice the word please, human rights. it actually makes you look like you are above all things, your gain. it actuality, it shows ignorance of the whole subject matter. there is no real world experience to fall back on. i on the other hand have many friends and even family that are gay, i would never pass judgement on them.

i never said that i couldn't find passages, i said that in the four books of christ, whom took on all the biggest issues, never once mentioned anything about gays, good or bad. if you find one passage, make that even half a passage, then i will bow down to you, but don't hold your breath, as i have been through all four books of christ, there is nothing. that includes the king james, the good news, as well as twenty other bibles versions. christ is the model, and he constantly corrected his disiples when they took the old teachings and used them instead of the love thy neighbor attitude. let me put it this way, if the disiples had had their way mary magdeline would have been stoned to death. according to the old testament.


I've never claimed to be above all things.  I have claimed that God is above all things.  It would be more two sided for me to NOT claim devine authority in the Bible.  Using real world experience is just as short sighted in my opinion.  Your own point of view is the only way you can make decisions goign that route.  It is true that the Bible warns people about judging others, however I'm not condemning anyone.  Simply warning people that a certain behavior will bring upon themselves God's condemnation is not judgemental imo.  It would also be impossible for a church to remain stable if they allowed everyone to decide what is doctrine.
Quote:

your use of the bible makes you appear to be above all others. my question is where do you have the expertise in interpreting the bible? from what i read, you are a scientist, not a man of the cloth. so your expertise is not the bible, you may read it, but you don't have the knowledge that makes you an expert, please prove me wrong. now the real question here was, where does christ himself say that homosexuals are bad? you haven't answered that one, please show me. for this is a big issue, and if it is a big issue, he would have covered it. now as for the real world remark, i see you didn't read this completely. what i said was that you only come from the bible, no real world experience. and if you read it, you will find out that i know only have the bible, i have those real world experiences. don't turn this one around again please, for it shows ignorance.



Quote:
as for your church, i am sorry for you and those around you. i am also quite conservative when it comes to "religious" matter. i use the term religious for there is no better term to use to describe it. but you see as a conservative i have learned that human rights come before personal bias'. you seem not to be able to seperate the two. my sect is able to see past bias and give everyone the same chances. that not only includes gay as pastors, but it also means an open communion, free to ask why, and many other freedoms to take control of our own experiences.
Quote:


You ought to explain human rights a bit more in this case.  I see your use of the word as an excuse to do anything.  Would a Satanist or a Wiccan be allowed to preach the sermon at your church?  What about even more questionable behavior other than homosexuality?  How far are you and your church willing to go?
Quote:

what is the problem with understanding human rights? i think that has been completely covered not only in the media, but also in any sort of constitution class you may have taken, either in high school or college. as for the wiccan, i have known several, and those that i have met have been very decent people, they believe in nature, "mother earth".  they don't judge anyone for anything. their beliefs are in treating the earth fairly, and the earth will treat you fairly. nothing monsterous about it. this is off topic even though i address it.



Quote:
if those in your congregation truely loved gay people, they would not be trying to hold them down to a sub human level. they would be supportive of the person that is there. i in no way wish to attack anyone, and if you think that is what i am doing then you really have a long ways to go in trying to figure out the human race. i am engaging you in what i feel is an intelligent debate, that neither of us will win between the two of us, i don't think that your bias' will allow you to see past your nose. as for tolerance and love, believe me i know what love is, and tolerance is something every man, woman, and child should be learning in this world of today. for this world has thrown us into a situation that makes everyone a neighbor. a possible friend, and even the possible enemy. love is for god, and god says that we shall not judge. well i don't judge, it seems to me that you and your congregation do judge, how will god look at you?


When have I ever said that homosexuals are sub human?  It seems to me that you're inventing hate crimes against me.  You don't judge?  Your entire post is spent judging me and my church.  Don't you think that in itself is questionable behavior?

Quote:

i don't believe you have,in so many words, those are my words to describe the way you talk about homosexuals. as for judging you and your church, i am only taking your words and rephrasing them, to see what you actually have said. i am not inventing anything. there is no judgement here, i am mearly debating this issue with you. you seem to be an expert in it and i need you to answer somethings for me. although that point has been brought to light as well. i don't appreciate anyone only answering a small part of the questions i raise, please be sure to answer all of them. and i will point out what you don't answer.




Quote:
bigot, refer to first paragraph. i am no bigot in any sense of the word. i accept people for who they are, not what i think they should be, now that doesn't mean i like everyone around me, it means i am tolerant of each and everyone i am around. i don't discriminate due to race, color, creed, or sexual preferance. these are private things to each and everyone. i stay out of their business. it is not for me to say how they live, that is their choice, and if god doesn't like it then they will pay, but i don't feel that is what is going to happen. i feel and believe deep in my heart, that god wishes all of us to love each other on the same level ground.


If that truely was the case I wouldn't have seen your post in reply to mine would have I?  If you were truely tolerant you have just ignored my posts because you wouldn't have had a problem with them. You're caught in a trap just the same as I am.  I have my opinion about a behavior that I find questionable.  You don't like that opinion so you make a post debating the point.  That in itself is intolerant of my position.  Why don't we forget the tolerance idea because the idea is self defeating.  



Quote:

now that just doesn't make any sense. i can't have questions about your opinions? now that doesn't seem real fair to me. just because i am tolerant, doesn't mean i am not a questioning man. so that becomes a mute point, and reaching for straws. i am in no trap, for to learn you must ask question, not blindly follow what i read or hear. that would make for a very ignorant society. tolerance and questions are two different things, if you would like i could look up the two terms for you and we can debate them as well. but i don't think that is necessary, for that would also be off topic. what i think is i make you a little nervous, for i don't attack, i question you.

















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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 22, 2007 09:26 AM

one other thing shadey, honor means everything to me, i don't debate unfairly, and i don't expect anyone else to debate with me unfairly.
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bixie
bixie


Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
posted July 22, 2007 11:02 AM

shadey, take some advice from me, this is advice, in no way shape or form a personal attack.

you can act quite venomously, then say "But i never condemn anyone!" we put forward some evidence and you say "It doesn't exist, I'm and expert and i have never heard of this case!" or call up witnesses which are probably fictitious, (dubious at best). then you go back to attacking people, Usually VF, quite venomously because they said something that was contradicting you.

now imagine what would happen if the whole world started to act like you, like a child! Please remember that this is a serious conversation for some people, probably including you, so try and act grown up about it.


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Tenaka
Tenaka


Famous Hero
Makes sense
posted July 22, 2007 11:28 AM

I'm giving up, you're apparently pretty much ignoring me...And I did read Shadey's posts before making a comment on this, but so what? Yes, he's radical, but that's still no reason to bash him like that! I don't agree with him either, but can't you discuss that without calling him a fanatic?

I've got only one thing to ask: Please stop calling all Christians fanatics! I'm a Christian, and it's just getting plain offensive! (I'm referring to the soup kitchen cult remarks, and things like that) Yes, I go to church every Sunday - in fact, I'm just back from it - but I know barely anyone - not more then in a non-Christian community, if not less - who thinks that being homosexual, or bisexual is wrong! So if you would please continue bashing one member, instead of a whole religion, thank you.  

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
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Professional
posted July 22, 2007 11:38 AM

Tenaka you're asking her not to blame the religion, by saying that these people you know aren't against gays.

That's a contradiction, because the religion is against gays, but some people are not.

So you can't ask her to blame some people for it rather than the religion...







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Tenaka
Tenaka


Famous Hero
Makes sense
posted July 22, 2007 11:43 AM

Although this is not on-topic, how is christianity against gay people? You all keep repeating it, the bible doesn't say anything about it. Personally, I think it's just plain bizar that you're basing your arguments on the bible while you're not christian, but let's talk about that some other time.

Furthermore, I actually meant the community of the religion, the people.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted July 22, 2007 12:05 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 12:13, 22 Jul 2007.

warning: bible passages

Quote:
Although this is not on-topic, how is christianity against gay people? You all keep repeating it, the bible doesn't say anything about it. Personally, I think it's just plain bizar that you're basing your arguments on the bible while you're not christian, but let's talk about that some other time.


First off, how is talking about homosexuality off topic in a thread called "Gay People"?


Second, what about this:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 18:22


Or this more bluntly:

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Leviticus 20:13

Or this:
(which I think is one of the most ridiculous passages from the bible, of which there are many)

Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.


Or this, from the big J himself:
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications(just ask Shadey ), thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Deuteronomy 23:17


Or this:
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:26-27


Or this:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind/sodomites/homosexual offenders(depending on translation), Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corithians 6:9-10


Or this:
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For snowmongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.
1 Timothy 1:9-10


Or this:
And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Mark 7: 20-23





Do I need to go on?
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Tenaka
Tenaka


Famous Hero
Makes sense
posted July 22, 2007 12:10 PM

Awkward how you, zs an atheists starts quoteing bible passages, but alright, point taken. That doesn't however mean that the whole religion is against it. Plus, like I said in my previous  post, let's not continue this discussion, since I didn't literally mean the religion.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
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Professional
posted July 22, 2007 12:14 PM

Ok sorry if I took it one step too far
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alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted July 22, 2007 12:20 PM

As always, that bears down to whether the word of the Bible should be taken literally. I think most branches of christianity has now come to realize that the wording of the Bible represents as much the norms of the time at which it was put down (400 AD, or so, right?) as the true philosophy of the religion.
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What will happen now?

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