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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Gay people
Thread: Gay people [ This thread is 38 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 (31) 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 ]
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted July 22, 2007 06:37 AM

Then why have the bible at all?
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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted July 22, 2007 07:49 AM

Well it is kind of difficult to throw it all away - but actually, that is kind of an interesting thought; not to throw the whole bible away, but to re-write it to modern day standards. Of course, that would not be possible, because christianity is so widespread that it's impossible to find a uniform common interpretation that everybody feels happy with - this thread is ample evidence of that. Problem is probably that it's been too long since they last did that - had it been rewritten every hundred or two hundred years, changes would probably have seemed less radical, and thus gone down better with the different communities.

But I don't see the bible as worthless, even if I'm not christian myself. I think it holds a lot of important information, cultural as well as what you could call mythological (I know the term Christian Mythology probably will not go down well with certain people). I even think much of what's in their is still valid as a ground for displaying and defining what you can call the christian values. But obviously, some of the more specific parts on what is a sin, and how these sins should be punished, is outdated - the quotes you give on homosexuality are good evidence of this, and there are even worse parts around.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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Legendary Hero
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posted July 22, 2007 08:02 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 08:03, 22 Jul 2007.

A modern bible sounds good:

Commandment 73983939: Thou shalt not evade taxes, for it is an abomination, and you will surely be tried in court with fines and possible jail time.

Commandment 73983940: Thou shalt not visit Cuba, for they are become by selfishness and evil.

Commandment 73983941: Thou shalt not spoil the ending of Harry Potter.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 22, 2007 10:09 AM

hey guys, the point of the bible itself for christians, the old testament, which is what is being quoted, shows where we came from. then the new testament is what christians are suppose to follow, more importantly the actual teachings of christ. in those four books of christ is the doctrine of how a christian should behave. in those four books you will not find a thing about homosexuals. those christians that "try" to follow what christ has to say, do not beleive that homosexuals are bad.

much of what folows are the "teachings of the disciples, which i maight add, never got what christ was trying to teach, right up to the time of christs death. refer back to the four books of christ, where christ habitually had to repremand them. not syaing what is said later is bad, but there were a few homophobics in that group.
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Tenaka
Tenaka


Famous Hero
Makes sense
posted July 22, 2007 12:15 PM

Quote:
then the new testament is what christians are suppose to follow, more importantly the actual teachings of christ. in those four books of christ is the doctrine of how a christian should behave. in those four books you will not find a thing about homosexuals. those christians that "try" to follow what christ has to say, do not beleive that homosexuals are bad.




....Except for the lack of capitals...
That's pretty much how the majority of the christians behave, I think. Face it, "Love thy Neighbor isn't so bad", is it?

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted July 22, 2007 04:57 PM

Quote:
Christian Mythology


Love that, they said that in Buffy and I was suprised they did not get in trouble for that.  

And yes, I'm allowed to talk about Buffy in this topic because it was gay friendly.  Nayah!
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alcibiades
alcibiades

Hero of Order
Really, Ubisoft?
posted July 22, 2007 06:24 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 18:26, 22 Jul 2007.

Quote:
A modern bible sounds good:

Commandment 73983939: Thou shalt not evade taxes, for it is an abomination, and you will surely be tried in court with fines and possible jail time.

Commandment 73983940: Thou shalt not visit Cuba, for they are become by selfishness and evil.

Commandment 73983941: Thou shalt not spoil the ending of Harry Potter.




Quote:
hey guys, the point of the bible itself for christians, the old testament, which is what is being quoted, shows where we came from. then the new testament is what christians are suppose to follow, more importantly the actual teachings of christ. in those four books of christ is the doctrine of how a christian should behave. in those four books you will not find a thing about homosexuals. those christians that "try" to follow what christ has to say, do not beleive that homosexuals are bad.

much of what folows are the "teachings of the disciples, which i maight add, never got what christ was trying to teach, right up to the time of christs death. refer back to the four books of christ, where christ habitually had to repremand them. not syaing what is said later is bad, but there were a few homophobics in that group.


Yes, that is certainly true, a lot of us who's not really knowledgable in this religion live in blissful ignorance of the separation of all these scripts, and just throw more or less random quotes around to prove our point.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 22, 2007 08:10 PM


Quote:

Or this:
And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Mark 7: 20-23



now you point out the word fornications: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY
how does this point to homosexual behavior? this is just sex with out marriage. i did use an actual definition of the word from the dictionary. nice try, but doesn't work.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 22, 2007 10:56 PM

do i really make you that nervous shadey? you have to be prodded to come back here and answer me? i shouldn't have to wait for a response, like i said honor is everything to me. avoiding the debate has no honor. you got involved in this and i had questions, you have failed to answer them or prove me wrong. i am not like those that get angry with your answers, i will not attack, but i will continue to make you think. if it were the other way around, i would be there as soon as i could be. or you have been proven wrong, and you can't admit it, that is it, ok i will take that as a tip of the hat. but i would at least say so. if not, what is taking you so long in responding to my debate with you?
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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 22, 2007 11:08 PM

I'm sure it hasn't occured to you GC, but I don't spend the majority of my time on message boards replying to every single post someone makes.  I do have other things to do in my life...  When I get enough time to respond, I will.  

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted July 22, 2007 11:11 PM

I think what he really meant to say was.
I am a little lost right now, let me do some research before I make a reply.
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted July 23, 2007 03:26 AM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 03:40, 23 Jul 2007.

Quote:
hey guys, the point of the bible itself for christians, the old testament, which is what is being quoted, shows where we came from.




Nope. I quoted both, thanks.



Quote:

now you point out the word fornications: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY
how does this point to homosexual behavior? this is just sex with out marriage. i did use an actual definition of the word from the dictionary. nice try, but doesn't work.


This is used to show Jesus' condemnation of the sexual crimes of the time, fornication and adultery nearly always coupled with male prostitutes and sodomites.


The word for fornicators in the bible, 'pornea', can also be translated to mean any sex crime including homosexual intercourse, masturbation and anything in between, which is the standpoint of the Jehova's Witnesses (who outnumber the Jews btw)
According to Christs Freedmen it means
"premarital sex, orgies, masturbation, oral sex, fetishes, anything to do with pornography, 'improper' thoughts about the opposite sex, homosexuality, and just about any other sexual sin you could think of."

Christian Answers says
"Adultery is one type of fornication...In Biblical usage, 'fornication' can mean any sexual congress outside monogamous marriage. It thus includes not only premarital sex, but also adultery, homosexual acts, incest, remarriage after un-Biblical divorce, and sexual acts with animals, all of which are explicitly forbidden in the law as given through Moses (Leviticus 20:10-21). Christ expanded the prohibition against adultery to include even sexual lusting (Matthew 5:28)."


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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 23, 2007 06:04 AM

Quote:
I'm sure it hasn't occured to you GC, but I don't spend the majority of my time on message boards replying to every single post someone makes.  I do have other things to do in my life...  When I get enough time to respond, I will.  


up until now you are on here every day, now since you are being truely debated, you are busy. ok sure that sounds likely. i mean you are sure to make those that get irrate with you, respond promptly. hey that is great give them more rhetoric and you get more notice, but someone challenges you, you can't respond.

i am not looking for every post, i am looking for those post that you are engaged in. what is being said outside of what we are debating, i could care less. you seemed truely passionate about what you are saying, but that passion must have relaxed a bit.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 23, 2007 10:17 AM

Well GC passion can be diluted by facts and when pushed into a corner by them can become less appealing also. Don't feel bad he never answered my question either.  
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Doomforge
Doomforge

Hero of Order
Mayhem Elemental
posted July 23, 2007 10:45 AM
Edited by Doomforge at 10:53, 23 Jul 2007.

Quote:
Commandment 73983941: Thou shalt not spoil the ending of Harry Potter.


that should be added to original one aswell..

Quote:
In Biblical usage, 'fornication' can mean..


It can mean that, it can mean this, it actually means what we want it to mean since it's not explained anywhere in the Bible, say hello to middle ages which show a good example of EXAGGERATION. Christian Answers aren't any kind of moral autority to me, neither a guide, so I don't see why we should understand it the way extreme bigots see it (or want to see it).

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Shadey
Shadey


Adventuring Hero
posted July 23, 2007 11:37 AM

Lets turn this around for a bit.  Since several of you disagree with my opinion of sexual immorality.

Please state your opinion on two things.  

What do you think the Bible's stance is on sexual immorality in general?  What acts would the Bible consider to be sexually immoral.
What is sexual immorality?

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted July 23, 2007 12:20 PM

being unfaithful I think is all, or engaging in sexual activity without having feelings toward the person.
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Antipaladin
Antipaladin


Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted July 23, 2007 03:10 PM

rape,or to cheating on someone without a good reason,im no quick to judge,but cheating out of bordom is sexually immoral,if such thing exists i'm not entierly sure.
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GothCowboy
GothCowboy


Hired Hero
posted July 23, 2007 04:30 PM

shadey you are off topic. and you continue to answer only those questions you deem appropriate. what is wrong, is it too hard to answer a few question and have some honor in this?

here is the thing, you gladly answer those that truely despise you. you look like you are enjoying it. so i say that you are only doing this to get the attention. and even when those that are clearly aggravated by you ask a question that is a bit hard, you ignore it. lack of honor.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted July 23, 2007 08:16 PM

I would have to agree with you GC. This is what works for him he has completely avoided the question that I asked and continues to do so.
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