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| Thread: Heroes of Math & Logic |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted November 02, 2002 08:49 PM |
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This is such a good idea for a thread that I just couldn't let it remain near the bottom of the Tavern!
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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madmartigan
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
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posted November 02, 2002 09:57 PM |
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Quote:
-Hero with fast units at beginning of turn doesn't slow down even when he gets ulra-slow units during turn
First off... Sry.. becuz I did not read whole thread.
However, above statement is not true. A hero, for example Ivor, who is recruited from tavern without slow creatures-dwarves being in this case- is faster than Ufretin (recruited from tavern too) who has only dwarves 
Regards
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted November 04, 2002 06:46 PM |
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Another thing that makes HoMM a bit non-realistic (but on the other hand, did anyone ever wanted it to be realistic in the first place?):
The creatures in your army will NEVER revolt. Suggesting that you have a really low-level hero with a stack of black dragons (which - AFAIK - are treacherous and egoistic creatures). Normally, at least one of them would just slay the hero and say to the others something like "yay, we're free." and alluvem would become wandering creatures.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Galileo
Known Hero
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posted August 28, 2012 03:13 PM |
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Here's another strange thing from H4 and 5: How can peasants pay taxes while in marching army? Are they forced to work on nearby fields while other players do?
This one is from H3: How can catapult be so tough to destroy? It's a fragile and vulnerable machine, not something what can endure equal amount of damage like Azure Dragons!
How archers can shoot anywhere? I'll use H3 as example. Medieval crossbows had range of around 270 m and could fire twice per minute. That means that creatures in H3 have half minute for their move, because we can see marksmen shoot only once. If average horseman would move (run) in speed of around 40 km/h, would cross seven hexes of the battle field (which is 15 hexes long in x axis) in half minute... that means x axis of the battlefield is 0.70 km=700 m long... On the end I calculated that crossbows could fire five hexes around them. Unless I calculated something incorrectly. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted August 28, 2012 03:15 PM |
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Next time you see a catapult in real life, try hitting it with a sword and report how long it takes until is in pieces.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Galileo
Known Hero
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posted August 28, 2012 03:17 PM |
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It isn't vulnerable to fire.
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yesugey
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 23, 2014 03:05 PM |
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pluvious said:
It is important to udnerstand the difference between "unreal" and "illogical". Unreal is fantasy! So obviously we don't want to make the game real.
What we want is to make it logical. This means consistent with what we know...or what we think makes sense. Does it make sense for a dragon to be in a fantasy game? Yes it does. Does it make sense for an elf to use a longbow since many of us have always pictured elves with a bow? Sure. Does it make sense for a hero to have the same movement in one turn even though that hero started with fast creatures and switched to slow? Umm...no that isn't particuarly logical.
You may say you don't care or you like it the way it is. But don't mix up logic and reality. They are not the same.
pluvious, good post, you described it probably better than me.
Every game creates its own "universe". It is acceptable. But the gmae collides with the rules created by itself, then its illogical.
HOMM universe has dendroids, talking trees? It is fine. Because in its universe they do exist. But if the speed calculation doesn't match, its illogical and must be dealt with.
I want to add one more thing though: Things looks illogical just because of the system requirements, or demonstration costs doesnt count as illogical.
For example: Lets say a crusader hits the ballista with a sword, and the balista gets destroyed. It is not illogical. Its only poor demonstration. Think as the soldiers burned it, or did something else but its hard to demonstrate on the map.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 23, 2014 03:57 PM |
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Edited by Maurice at 16:00, 23 Oct 2014.
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yesugey said:
pluvious said:
It is important to udnerstand the difference between "unreal" and "illogical". Unreal is fantasy! So obviously we don't want to make the game real.
What we want is to make it logical. This means consistent with what we know...or what we think makes sense. Does it make sense for a dragon to be in a fantasy game? Yes it does. Does it make sense for an elf to use a longbow since many of us have always pictured elves with a bow? Sure. Does it make sense for a hero to have the same movement in one turn even though that hero started with fast creatures and switched to slow? Umm...no that isn't particuarly logical.
You may say you don't care or you like it the way it is. But don't mix up logic and reality. They are not the same.
pluvious, good post, you described it probably better than me.
Every game creates its own "universe". It is acceptable. But the gmae collides with the rules created by itself, then its illogical.
HOMM universe has dendroids, talking trees? It is fine. Because in its universe they do exist. But if the speed calculation doesn't match, its illogical and must be dealt with.
I want to add one more thing though: Things looks illogical just because of the system requirements, or demonstration costs doesnt count as illogical.
For example: Lets say a crusader hits the ballista with a sword, and the balista gets destroyed. It is not illogical. Its only poor demonstration. Think as the soldiers burned it, or did something else but its hard to demonstrate on the map.
You do realise that the post you responded to, is THIRTEEN years old? The one making the post may not even visit here anymore.
Besides the thread itself has been dead for two years; it's not the first thread you've necro'ed (i.e. was dead for a long time but raised again by you) in the past week.
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yesugey
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 23, 2014 05:44 PM |
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Maurice said:
You do realise that the post you responded to, is THIRTEEN years old? The one making the post may not even visit here anymore.
Besides the thread itself has been dead for two years; it's not the first thread you've necro'ed (i.e. was dead for a long time but raised again by you) in the past week.
Umm late reply is still better than no reply
When I become idle at work, I like to dig in old posts. Since the game is the same, I think creating a new post is pointless, and other users may benefit from the old posts.
However, I somehow got negative comments from some forum admins, even threatened to be banned because of it. Is it illegal here too?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 23, 2014 06:05 PM |
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Not illegal but annoying. If a thread falls into dust, there is a reason to that, maybe content is outdated, maybe new data was acquired and needs a better thread title, maybe the subject is no longer interesting the community, and so on. Threads with great potential will survive even a decade, other die shortly.
Now, if you have outstanding content to add to it (like the "tactics" thread), nobody would object, but necroing a 13 yo thread just to add "I fully agree with you" then give mediocre examples may irritate some.
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batoonike
Known Hero
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posted October 23, 2014 09:17 PM |
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With enough skill, one arrow from medusas can kill like 20 peasants. The peasants would have to stay in a straight line for that to even be theoretically possible. Same way, how can one blow with archangel sword kill hundreds of creatures?
How can plague kill golems? Or undead?
How can a patch of flowers stop an army of dragons and force them to go fight some huge battle to open up another way?
How can golems move faster on snow than on grass or flat rock?
How can nagas live on snow? Snakes are cold-blooded.
How can you see through cave walls underground?
Why does any army size fit on same size boat but you can't fit 2 heroes on 1 boat?
How can you rise humanoid skeletons from centaurs, basilisks or gorgons? Or serpent flies? Serpent flies don't even have bones.
How can you fill up your backbag with same amount of items, regardless of whether these are all tiny rings or all huge swords?
Why are white centaurs better than brown centaurs?
How can gremlins throw a giant metal ball wich is clearly heavier than the gremlin itself? According to physics, it's the gremlin that should fly away if enough force is applied, not the ball.
How can efreet fly on snow and not melt it? Same with magogs fireball and phoenixes?
How can dendroid entangle ability catch efreets, ghosts, phoenixes and a long list of other non-material or fiery creatures?
How can ammo card contain Titan thunderbolts or Zealot missiles?
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yesugey
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 23, 2014 10:48 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Not illegal but annoying. If a thread falls into dust, there is a reason to that, maybe content is outdated, maybe new data was acquired and needs a better thread title, maybe the subject is no longer interesting the community, and so on. Threads with great potential will survive even a decade, other die shortly.
Now, if you have outstanding content to add to it (like the "tactics" thread), nobody would object, but necroing a 13 yo thread just to add "I fully agree with you" then give mediocre examples may irritate some.
It is a good thread to resurrect though.
And the guy was defended the case really great, and deserves resurrection. I always feel annoyed against people who says "It's a game with dragons and elves, you can't look for logic!"
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 23, 2014 10:57 PM |
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batoonike said:
How can gremlins throw a giant metal ball wich is clearly heavier than the gremlin itself? According to physics, it's the gremlin that should fly away if enough force is applied, not the ball.
The gremlins pushes against the ground.
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Living time backwards
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 23, 2014 11:15 PM |
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batoonike said:
How can a patch of flowers stop an army of dragons and force them to go fight some huge battle to open up another way?
How can golems move faster on snow than on grass or flat rock?
How can nagas live on snow? Snakes are cold-blooded.
How can you see through cave walls underground?
Why does any army size fit on same size boat but you can't fit 2 heroes on 1 boat?
How can you rise humanoid skeletons from centaurs, basilisks or gorgons? Or serpent flies? Serpent flies don't even have bones.
How can you fill up your backbag with same amount of items, regardless of whether these are all tiny rings or all huge swords?
Why are white centaurs better than brown centaurs?
How can gremlins throw a giant metal ball wich is clearly heavier than the gremlin itself? According to physics, it's the gremlin that should fly away if enough force is applied, not the ball.
How can efreet fly on snow and not melt it? Same with magogs fireball and phoenixes?
How can dendroid entangle ability catch efreets, ghosts, phoenixes and a long list of other non-material or fiery creatures?
How can ammo card contain Titan thunderbolts or Zealot missiles?
some of these are pretty good ideas for scripters. 
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DivineClio
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 11:43 AM |
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Please let Yesugey train his necromancy skill .
And then get "banned" like in the WCL LOLOLOL
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batoonike
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 09:26 PM |
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The gremlin pushing against ground only get's you that far. The ball they are throwing should be like 10 times the weight of gremlin. Even if they are pushing against ground, their muscles should be incredibly powerful or they should weigh like half a ton. They could throw it straight up but there is no way they can throw it horisontally.
I do realize however that this thread is not serious 
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kicferk
Known Hero
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posted November 03, 2014 09:38 PM |
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The ball can be empty inside.
What I am really wondering about is how can primary attributes affect heroes creatures? Do they measure how well a hero can command his troops in battle in attack/defense? If so, how can they be affected by a shield, or a sword? Such objects, especially treasure ones, should only affect the wearer, right?
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