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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Why George Bush Should Not Be Re-elected.
Thread: Why George Bush Should Not Be Re-elected. This thread is 18 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 · «PREV / NEXT»
Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 02, 2004 06:49 AM
Edited By: Consis on 2 Sep 2004

bjorn190,

You ask, 'Did we know that our jobs are being out-sourced to other countries?'

Do you think we could lose hundreds of thousands of jobs and not know it? I think it's safe to say that we not only know it, but are also rather angry about it. Many americans want to introduce legislation that will ensure some sort of citizenry first pick bidding when it comes to the many jobs we've lost to our overseas competitors like India and China. Whether I agree or not will be based on what I read in the terms concerning such legislation should it ever come to fruition.

I don't understand your intentions. Perhaps you want to instigate inner turmoil of somekind. Perhaps you want the current american president to leave office. I don't know. You offer no logic in spitting out half-truths to american HC members who truly experience the full weight of our own problems!

I rather coldly disagree with the seeming motives behind your post.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 02, 2004 05:36 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 2 Sep 2004

Consis, Bjorn 190 and others  --

You both appear to agree that this is a distressing element of neo-liberalism (now morphed into neo-conservatism as the term is loosely applied to the globalization of the American economy and culture.)

Here's another Bush alert along these lines.

http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/analysis/2003/0312apocalypse.php

This is a critically important topic and I urge you all to stick through this long article to the end.  It is one of the more factual pieces I have been able to find addressing the concerns of neo-conservatism.  

For you international members who may not be familiar:  Pat Buchanan is a notoriously conservative commentator here in the United States.  As I have pointed out in the past, all the Bush-bashing that is going on is not simply a tactic from the American Left.  A growing number of conservatives are becoming disgruntled with the man's hidden influences, platform and unclear (at best) agenda as well.

PLEASE NOTE that I have started a new thread on the subject of the not-so-apparent influences on Bush policies.  I think this is a huge subject that could easily hijack this whole thread and take attention away from domestic concerns.

Svarog:  While a subject of great alarm for me for a very long time, I'm not convinced about the degree the influences alleged in these articles are affecting Bush policies in reality.  There's a lot of smoke, but as a lawyer my habit is to find the fire before I come to any final conclusions.  So for now I will decline taking this topic to the debate thread.  I just want people to look into this for themselves for now.  At some point I may do that though.  


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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
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Jebus maker
posted September 02, 2004 11:05 PM

Basically the purpose of the post was to shift from focus on war to focus on the economy. Bush claims to be a "War president", so I think there may be need for a more economy oriented president. + yup Im not really hoping for 4 more years for Bush.

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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 03, 2004 10:49 PM
Edited By: Consis on 3 Sep 2004

Trapped By Fear

I don't want to admit it but we americans are safe from another terrorist attack with Bush as president. I think that because of this, whether we agree with him on certain issues or not, will be overshadowed by our need to feel safe.

Anyone who wants to can quote me on what I'm about to predict. I predict that Bush will be re-elected and that our country will have a very ugly and uncanny right to complain about it. I know I don't want him as president but how can I ignore that not a single terrorrist attack has happened in this country since 9/11? I can't ignore it and I shall do my best to be a good citizen to ride out this reactionary fear that has us caught in its inescapable grasp.

For a very long time I have been disgusted with the lengths people have gone to, to say they disagree with the president. I know it'll get worse but I'll try to keep the people around me from acting undignified about their disagreements. After all, I also disagree with many of his policies but degrading one's self(through lackluster/obscene methods) will only make the people listening ignore your point. And of course(dignity being retained)......safety for the country comes first.
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gorman
gorman


Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
posted September 03, 2004 11:03 PM

Trapped by fear?

All right...tell me something. What natural human terrorist would NOT be afraid if thousands of bombs were being dropped on them? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be outside smiling and waving at the planes as the bombs were being dropped all around them.
But there is the fact that even if ppl from other countries aren't blowing up our buildings or shooting our citizens doesn't mean that we don't already have that with the crime rate's and all. You still have nutcases robbing stores and one particular person who drove around DC in a van while a kid took pot shots at unwary ppl who'd be fueling there automobiles. You're always going to have some form of terrorism around.
But I would probably vote for Bush simply because he'd be alot better selection than dumb*ss Kerry.
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted September 03, 2004 11:49 PM

Consis --

Have you read the articles I posted in my new thread concerning neo-conservatism yet?

Assuming this stuff is true, how safe do you think we will be if Bush continues as suggested there?

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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted September 04, 2004 03:07 AM
Edited By: Wolfman on 3 Sep 2004

Quote:
Anyone who wants to can quote me on what I'm about to predict. I predict that Bush will be re-elected and that our country will have a very ugly and uncanny right to complain about it.

He probably will be with people like you voting for him. A registered demcrat voting for Bush! Thats really funny and ironic, u know.

And your arguement about how Bush keeps America safe is all I needed to hear and understand how in the mind of the ordinary American citizen Bush makes for the better option. Sorry to put this so bluntly but: Are you ****in crazy?! Safe from what?! Terrorism?!
I thought you saw Moore's movie and got the point about the mass state of panic and its effect on people! You really failed me this time.
And another thing; wasnt Bush the President when 9/11 happened? And know suddenly he's the gurdian angel of America?!
Most Americans start getting annoying with all that terrorism bull****. You wanna know what real terrorism is about, Consis? Ask the Russians these days. 600 hostiges, two planes down; and yet they still continue with their daily activities as normal. And you guys are all in panic and allow to be manipulated by that stupid fear.
There is far far greater threat from smoking than terrorism currently. Oddly enough, no one sees that.
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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted September 04, 2004 03:38 AM

I'd like to see where you get your information sometimes, Svarog.  Last time I checked, no one was running around in panic here.  
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted September 04, 2004 03:41 AM

Last time I checked Consis titled his post "Trapped by Fear".

And the same observation stands for many Americans. Not literally "run in panic", you know that.
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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
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Underachiever
posted September 04, 2004 04:55 AM
Edited By: Khayman on 3 Sep 2004

The Most Recent Numbers

According to a Time Magazine poll conducted yesterday (prior to Bush's convention speech), if the election occured right now, George Bush would receive 52% of the popular vote, Kerry 41%, and Ralph Nader 3%.

Here is a link http://www.time.com/time/press_releases/article/0,8599,692562,00.html

Just wanted to make your Democratic lives a little brighter. Have a wonderfully liberal day.

Edit: As with every poll or survey, there is obviously a margin of error; therefore, I don't want to hear "52% + 41% + 3% = 96%...What happened to the other 4%?"  Thanks.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."

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Consis
Consis


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Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 04, 2004 06:50 AM
Edited By: Consis on 4 Sep 2004

Republicans Are In Trouble

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/03/schwarzenegger.ap/index.html
Quote:
VIENNA, Austria (AP) -- Austrian historians are challenging California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger for telling the Republican National Convention that he saw Soviet tanks in his homeland as a child and that he left a "Socialist" country when he moved away in 1968.

Recalling that the Soviets once occupied part of Austria in the aftermath of World War II, Schwarzenegger told the convention on Tuesday: "I saw tanks in the streets. I saw communism with my own eyes."

Historians, however, are questioning Schwarzenegger's version of postwar history -- if not his enduring popularity among Austrians who admire him for rising from a penniless immigrant to the highest official in America's most populous state.

"It's a fact -- as a child he could not have seen a Soviet tank in Styria," the southeastern province where Schwarzenegger was born and raised, historian Stefan Karner told the Vienna newspaper Kurier.

Schwarzenegger, now a naturalized U.S. citizen, was born on July 30, 1947, when Styria and the neighboring province of Carinthia belonged to the British zone. At the time, postwar Austria was occupied by the four wartime allies, which also included the United States, the Soviet Union and France.

The Soviets already had left Styria in July 1945, less than three months after the end of the war, Karner noted.

Margita Thompson, spokeswoman for Schwarzenegger, defended Schwarzenegger's speech.

"Never in there did the governor reference that the tanks were where he grew up. It was a reference to visiting Soviet-occupied Austria," she said.

In his convention address, Schwarzenegger also said: "As a kid, I saw the Socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left" in 1955 and Austria regained its independence.

But Martin Polaschek, a law history scholar and vice rector of Graz University, told Kurier that Austria was governed by coalition governments, including the conservative People's Party and the Social Democratic Party. Between 1945 and 1970, all the nation's chancellors were conservatives -- not Socialists.

What's more, when Schwarzenegger left in 1968, Austria was run by a conservative government headed by People's Party Chancellor Josef Klaus, a staunch Roman Catholic and a sharp critic of both the Socialists and the Communists ruling in countries across the Iron Curtain.

Schwarzenegger "confuses a free country with a Socialist one," said Polaschek, referring to East European Communist officials' routine descriptions of their countries as Socialist.

Thompson said the governor was "talking about a socialistic-style of government and governing that he experienced when living in Austria."

Polaschek saw the moderate Republican governor's recollections at the convention as a tactical move. Schwarzenegger, he said, was "using the old Communist enemy image for Bush's election campaign."

"He did not speak as a historian, after all, but as a politician," Polaschek said.

Norbert Darabos, a ranking official of Austria's opposition Social Democratic Party, sharply criticized Schwarzenegger's "disdain for his former homeland."

"The Terminator is constructing a rather bizarre Austria image," he said.

But many ordinary Austrians seemed to be in a forgiving mood Friday over the gaffes.

"Maybe he has a wrong recollection -- it's so many years since he left," said Wilma Fadrany, 32, a Vienna waitress.

"There must be political reasons for such comments," she said. "You've got to tell the (convention delegates) what they want to hear in order to win them around. Politicians always talk the way it fits into their agenda."

I am completely baffled at what I refer to as the "Arnold-Effect". I am simply stunned by this man's popularity. He has something close to over 60% of the peoples' support in California alone. He has brought in more hispanic votes than any other Republican in history.

And now he's seriously being considered for a presidency race in the future with talk of changing the Constitution to make it happen.

I simply could not disagree more with this particular politician. He started his campaign to the tune of, "I may not know much about politics but I do know the right people".(didn't Reagan say that?)

When he gave his speech at the r.n.c. I recorded it, watched it twice, and sat confused over so many of its details. It was excellently delivered but something at the rear of my mind would constantly remind me not to be fooled by his charisma. I think he should stay out of politics. This man will never gain my vote no matter how good he delivers his phony speeches. Americans adore him but he will NEVER become our president.

Peacemaker,

In response to your question, my answer is no. I don't fear what you are suggesting. President Bush didn't create our very american version of democratic capitolism. Conceptually speaking, that is the root of your argument.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
posted September 18, 2004 04:20 AM

Uh Oh...

Khayman the Soothsayer predicted:
Quote:
Here is my prediction for the outcome of the United States' 2004 Presidential Election:

George Bush is re-elected by a very narrow margin over John Kerry

Here are my reasons, along with some hypothetical situations, that I believe will occur before the election, which will lead to George Bush getting re-elected President:

1. The Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan, will raise the interest rate .25% perhaps once, or maybe even twice, in the near furute.  I predict during the summer months (June-August).

2. As a result of raised interest rates, the stock market will take a hit (drop), but will make a huge recovery in the early fall, a month or two prior to the polls opening.

3. The governmental transition in Iraq on June 31 will be ugly...not a complete mess or a failure, but ugly none-the-less.  Early instability in Iraq and the surrounding regions will also cause the stock market to take some hits, but nothing so extreme as to really shake investor confidence.

4. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security will uncover a huge terrorist plot to attack the United States sometime early next fall, around September, when its citizens 'terror awareness' is very high.  The results will point to the large number of casualties that were avoided.  This will cause the U.S. voters to focus 'inward' on domestic issues, and less 'outward' on foreign issues, such as the rocky transition and instability of Iraq's government.

5. I do not think the U.S. military will locate Osama Bin Laden prior to the election, but if they do find him, this will only increase the margin of victory for Bush.

6. When it comes time for the election, the stock market will have made its recovery and possibly surged to its highest point since September 11, 2001.  Investors will be optimistic and retirees will be confident.  Also, the Iraqi government will still be having its hiccups, but will be showing some indications of growing stability; however, this will be overshadowed by the U.S. citizens 'internal' focus.

As stated above, this is my sole prediction, and I am not claiming that this is what will be best for the United States (or the rest of the world, for that matter).  To sum it all up, I think that the finacial status of the United States at the time of election will have the greatest impact on the voting results, as the average American voter will choose his or her wallet over the other social and political issues...and thus another four years for G.W.
The above is from Page 5 of this thread, dated May 23, 2004.

Call me crazy...call me whatever you like, but...there is almost an uncomfortable eerieness to the above, is there not?  The stock market and economy are back on the rise again this week, and November is quickly approaching...

p.s. - How do you like me now, Svarog?  
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Consis
Consis


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Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 18, 2004 08:05 AM
Edited By: Consis on 18 Sep 2004

Nope, Sorry, Don't Buy It

I see nothing eerie about predicting an "up" or "down" arrow when discussing the future of the stock market. Nor do I see anything eerie about Bush winning the election.

I disagree with your prediction basis though. I think that while jobs is very important, it will continue to take 2nd place to country safety from a terror threat. Spain and Russia remind us well of where our focus needs to be right now. That's why I've made a post about being trapped by fear. For all our disagreements, at this point in our country's history, we are inexorably being guided with terror as our main concern. I do not believe the job market will determine the outcome of the election.

I believe the election will be determined by when and where the next terrorist attack takes place either before or during the October debates, not after. With the existence of such a recent attack fresh on voters' minds, we will see exactly how Kerry might actually behave should their be an attack on his watch were he to be president. This is crucial to the election because this is the sole reason that he is being clobbered by Bush in poles. I think the american people are afraid to take a chance with a leader that they aren't sure of for a time crisis. The people want someone they can depend on and Bush is proven from 9/11. We know he'll take care of the country and make our enemies fear us. My problem with his leadership style is that he fights face to face unbeknownst to the war of ideals. Kerry may be able to win my vote back before the election but I need to see something in him that I've not yet seen. I don't want to see any hint of wishy washy character flaw or flip flopping the issues in those debates. I know Bush is going to hit him hard and fast. I need to see these men stand face to face. This is no time to make everyone happy, we're talking about the safety of the entire country.
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Laelth
Laelth


Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
posted September 19, 2004 12:54 AM

Consis:  You are obviously intelligent and educated, but, I would argue, not very well-educated about the President of the United States.  Bush is a big-time flip-flopper.  There's an argument that he's rather cowardly too (as opposed to Kerry who volunteered to fight in Vietnam).

I have written a thread about Bush's flip-flops that I hope you have a chance to peruse:

Bush Flip-Flops

You may also want to examine this essay about Bush's lack of intestinal fortitude:

Girlie Man

Enjoy!

-Laelth


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scorp
scorp


Adventuring Hero
posted September 19, 2004 03:58 PM

I think he should be re-elected!
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Khayman
Khayman


Promising
Famous Hero
Underachiever
posted September 19, 2004 04:02 PM

Scorp wrote:
Quote:
I think he should be re-elected!
Why do you think he should be re-elected?

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Sam_Sam
Sam_Sam


Adventuring Hero
posted September 19, 2004 04:08 PM

Quote:
Scorp wrote:
Quote:
I think he should be re-elected!
Why do you think he should be re-elected?

My brother thinks that he should be re-elected because Bush knows what to do. And Kerry wants to take the troops out of Iraq. THAT WOULD BE STUPID. If we did, then we would have one to war for nothing. We still have troops in Germany to this day.
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privatehudson
privatehudson


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The Ultimate Badass
posted September 19, 2004 04:50 PM
Edited By: privatehudson on 19 Sep 2004

That's a misrepresentation. Kerry doesn't want to pull troops out as such, but to replace the coallition troops with a more international or Nato based force. He wants to reduce the burden on the US by involving NATO countries to a greater degree. Sounds to me like a pretty sensible policy, so I wonder how it managed to get twisted into Kerry undermining the defense of Iraq when it blatantly isn't the case.
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vesuvius
vesuvius

Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
posted September 27, 2004 09:15 AM
Edited By: vesuvius on 27 Sep 2004


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Damacon_Ace
Damacon_Ace


Famous Hero
Also known as Nobris Agni
posted September 27, 2004 01:46 PM

Nice one there, Vesuvius!

By the way, I hope that warmongering hick Bush gets booted out of office. And here are my reasons:

- He started a rather pointless and very bloody and horrific war without UN approval. And if it is not bad enough, he has deliberately and purposely killed his own people in countless attacks in Iraq, many of them friendly fire.

- He is greedy for power and has created many enemies, especially France and Russia when they wanted to VETO his ultimatum for the UN approval of war.
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No one knows my true nature here...

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