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| Thread: Minimum Wage |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
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terje_the_ma...
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
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posted March 14, 2005 07:53 PM |
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What I meant was that while we have to adopt to nature, we can change culture, i.e. society. 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted September 30, 2006 08:56 PM |
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Hmm . . .
This is a good thread. I enjoyed reading through it again. I think I'll use my red stars to label this thread: "Inspiring"
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted September 30, 2006 11:56 PM |
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Wow. I was going to reply to this topic, but after copying 3 pages of quotes, I think everything has pretty well been said already
I wish I had been around when svarog was so active . {everything he & Khaelo said.}
Also, I wonder if RSF's opinion on any of this has changed since he started the thread.
Here are the highlights for me - condensed from 3 pages...
- Dingo came around in the end - so I will leave his first posts rest 
RSF
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Another thing I hate about raising the minimum wage is that you give more money to people who haven't done anything to try to be more successful financially. If you really can't find a better job or work hard enough to get one, than you aren't trying very hard or at least not hard enough.
RSF
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The capitalist society practices what nature has been practicing for millions of years. Survival of the fittest. If you argue with that than you are arguing with mother nature.
Capitalism thrives by brainwashing socially conditioning the masses to believe this very arguement. It is naive and the upper classes thrive from it. As Khaelo points out:
Quote:
The American Dream is basically a myth. Just enough people make it to keep the myth going, but it is a myth nevertheless. What's worse, it functions to exploit and give false hope to the lower classes. Lots of people work very hard, hoping to get a break. Very few have that good luck. The system is geared towards keeping people in their current socio-economic place.
It also uses Consumerism to maintain social control/ class division. How does it do this - by making people believe that they need things, that they can be better, that they are lacking in some way. They target people's insecurities to get them to consume - spending their disposable income thus preventing a shift in social class.
Just look at beauty products, mortgages, personal debt. How can you ever 'get ahead' if you are working to pay back credit? I digress...
What was I saying 
RSF:
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A lot of times, workers get paid very well for doing little work. They don't have to do work really hard to keep their job and they get raises for doing nothing. The unions just also happen to support the people that raised the minimum wage.
Have you ever actually had a working class job? I am really offended by this statement. My experience has shown me that basically, that wage does not reflect in any way, shape or form how hard you work.
If you are working for minimum wage, want a family, and want to do more than simple 'survive', then you need to work more than one job - most of these jobs with difficult hours. Unless you have some kind of outside support, or get a lucky break, or have some kind of innate talent, then it can be almost impossible to break out of this. You also need a sense of personal worth, motivation, drive, that can be lacking if you come from a place where you are used to being treated badly.
I was very fortunate. I had my family take my husband and I in - rent free - for 4 years so that I could go to uni to become a teacher. Without this, it never would have been affordable. I would still be working for minimum wage.
Too many thoughts... OK. Minimum wage...
The minimum wage is too low - in America it is ridiculous. It is not there to protect the worker - it is there to increase profit margins of employers. CEOs earn discusting amounts of money for increasing profit margins - often by sacking thousands of workers, and then copping millions in bonuses. This to me is sooooooo wrong it makes me want to put my hand through a wall
Unions are there to form a link between workers who would otherwise be completely powerless. The Australian government is changing our labour laws to make them closer to the US version - thanks Johnny you tosser. Anyway - people's wages and work conditions are dropping as a result - the only people winning are the companies that are increasing profits. The money is just shifting from the general population into the pockets of a few.
As Pecu points out:
Pecu
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Most owners or managers,or any type of bosses are very greedy that run or own thier business over license or no.
They will exploit thier employees & they will find everyway possible to screw them so they can make more money while the employees will make less.
Why do you think they have thier brand new comaroes & boats & a nice house etc.
Not because of work but because we buy it for them so to speak.
RSF uses an example of a restaurant going broke because of having to pay its employees more if the minimum wage is increased. I am only guessing that you are talking about a rise of a dollar or two an hour - if that. This is a drop in the ocean. As others have already said, increasing the disposable income through minimum wage increases would increase the market available to you.
{This is all over the place, I will edit later when my thoughts are more together }
Finally, if sigs didn't annoy me - this would be mine:
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Isn’t our ultimate goal a more just society and an equal share of happiness for all?! - Svarog
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uhuh
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