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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: How does the necromancy skill work exactly?
Thread: How does the necromancy skill work exactly? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
NoobX
NoobX


Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
posted April 16, 2012 12:48 PM

To get Skeleton Warriors you need to have at least one Skeleton Warrior in your army and all the other slots occupied by other creatures. Now, if you win a battle you'll gain Skeletons, but if there are no Skeletons in your army and you have a stack of Skeleton Warriors you will recive the Skeleton Warriors instead of the normal Skeletons.
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Ghost said:
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 16, 2012 09:24 PM

Noone can answer the question?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted April 16, 2012 09:30 PM

Quote:
To get Skeleton Warriors you need to have at least one Skeleton Warrior in your army

Some neutral Skeleton Warriors can join you early for greater glory.

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NoobX
NoobX


Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
posted April 16, 2012 09:45 PM

The key word is "can"...
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Ghost said:
Door knob resembles anus tap.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 16, 2012 09:56 PM

My mistake. Diplo not allowed either.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 16, 2012 10:03 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 22:09, 16 Apr 2012.

Refugee camp/seer/pandora then necro hero with warriors and all other slots full?
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Era II mods and utilities

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted April 16, 2012 10:24 PM

Yes, I guess it was to easy. Just had a game yesterday where i had 750 skells for main battle. But no necro towns on the map so no way to upgrade them. So just thought how it would be possible in such a case in a normal online game to make warriors.

Im playing some tournaments with russians atm and they allow necromancing, with some limits. So suddenly its part of the game again.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 16, 2012 10:27 PM

If you don't get warriors from map (objects), I think there is no way to upgrade them.
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NoobX
NoobX


Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
posted April 17, 2012 07:28 AM

There is a way if you're playing in WoG.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 17, 2012 12:31 PM

If necro hero is not allowed / not present, just assemble the "Cloak of the undead King" with Crag and you get those skeletons aswell...
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted April 17, 2012 05:15 PM

He asked about how to get skeletons warriors.
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NoobX
NoobX


Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
posted April 17, 2012 05:21 PM

Yeah. I think that you get normal Skeletons if you don't have Necromancy.
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Ghost said:
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 22, 2012 11:25 AM

Can anyone explain why I only made 2 skells from beating 56 golems and 1 skell from beating 45 dragonflies?
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted June 22, 2012 01:56 PM
Edited by Maciek at 23:28, 23 Jun 2012.

Quote:

Wub wrote:
I also tested in which way the number of raised skeletons is rounded off. It appears that when number of slain creatures is the limiting factor, the number of skeletons is rounded up and when hitpoints are the limiting factor, the number of skeletons is rounded down. So, for example, an archangel will give you one skeleton (no matter your necromancy skill), but if you killed 3 goblins you can never raise more than 2 skeletons.


My tests show that the conclusion about rounding up when the number of slain creatures is the limiting factor is not always true. Perhaps there is a difference in game versions, I tested with WoG 3.58f installed over SoD, but without wogification.

My tests:
I gave my heroes 100 Archangels each and had them attack garrisons. Enemies have high hp, so the number of slain enemies is always the limiting factor.

1. A hero with Basic Necromancy kills 1 Archangel.
raised skeletons: 1
1*0.1=0.1, rounded up, just like in Wub's test. I think it's because you always raise at least one skeleton.
Killing one Peasant with Basic Necromancy also gives one Skeleton.
Exception: killing a ghost hero gives no Skeletons, even if the hero has all Warmachines(but it gives 500 Exp).

2. A hero with Expert Necromancy attacks 10 Champions.
raised skeletons: 3
10*0.3=3 and there is no rounding here.

3. A hero with Expert Necromancy attacks 109 Champions.
raised skeletons: 2
9*0.3=2.7, rounded down.

4. A hero with Basic Necromancy kills 2*10+4*9 Golems.
raised skeletons: 2.
Exactly 1 skeleton comes from each stack of 10 and 0.9, rounded to 0, from each stack of 9.

EDIT: I corrected a mistake. In test 3 the hero attacked 9 Champions, not 10.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 22, 2012 07:39 PM

Thank you for that explanation. In other words, basic necromanzing sucks.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 23, 2012 10:26 PM
Edited by AlexSpl at 22:35, 23 Jun 2012.

I think it's not about rounding, it's about minimums and maximums: max(1, min(N, [x])).

You cannot raise less than 1 creature and more than full stack of them.

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AlexSpl
AlexSpl


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted June 24, 2012 11:58 AM

Here my explanation.

Quote:
4. A hero with Basic Necromancy kills 2*10+4*9 Golems.
raised skeletons: 2.
Exactly 1 skeleton comes from each stack of 10 and 0.9, rounded to 0, from each stack of 9.


max(1, 2 * min(10, [10 * 0.1]) + 4 * min(9, [9 * 0.1])) = max(1, 2 * 1 + 4 * 0) = max(1, 2) = 2.

So, there's no "rounding up", it's all just about limits.

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Star_King
Star_King


Known Hero
posted June 25, 2012 09:38 PM
Edited by Star_King at 18:22, 26 Jun 2012.

Quote:
Here my explanation.

Quote:
4. A hero with Basic Necromancy kills 2*10+4*9 Golems.
raised skeletons: 2.
Exactly 1 skeleton comes from each stack of 10 and 0.9, rounded to 0, from each stack of 9.


max(1, 2 * min(10, [10 * 0.1]) + 4 * min(9, [9 * 0.1])) = max(1, 2 * 1 + 4 * 0) = max(1, 2) = 2.

So, there's no "rounding up", it's all just about limits.


Except you rounded from 0.9 to get to "4 * 0"... (I'm assuming you meant to say there's no "rounding down", because nobody suggested rounding up)

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Maciek
Maciek


Known Hero
posted June 25, 2012 10:58 PM

Quote:
max(1, 2 * min(10, [10 * 0.1]) + 4 * min(9, [9 * 0.1])) = max(1, 2 * 1 + 4 * 0) = max(1, 2) = 2.

I agree.

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Ivan
Ivan


Known Hero
posted November 24, 2012 10:52 PM
Edited by Ivan at 22:56, 24 Nov 2012.

First of all, angelito, awesome thread, thoroughly researched post and very helpful, well done.

Now, I've done a calculation of my own and I believe it solves the problem with the three stacks. Boring math, so try to bear with me

The main difference in calculation is that the number of risen skeletons is calculated per individual stacks, not the whole army. In addition, numbers over 0.5 are calculated as 1 (e.g. 5.6 is equal to 6, and would be sufficient for a skeleton, while 5.4 wouldn't).

Now, a single stack of 40 gremlins with Basic Necromancy would, as you said, result in 40*4=160 160/10=16 (16 health means 2 skeletons risen).

In case of two stacks, we'd have 80/10=10 for each, meaning one skeleton from each stack, and a total of two.

And here's the difference: with three stacks of gremlins (14, 13, 13) you get 56, 52 and 52, which is 5.6 and two times 5.2 with Basic Necromancy. The two 5.2s are not sufficient for a skeleton, but 5.6(6) is, which is why, in case of three stacks you gain 1 skeleton with Basic Necromancy instead of 2, as in the case of one or two gremlin stacks.

Now, the example with Expert Necromancy: against a single stack of 40 gremlins, you get 160/10=16 16*3=48 (48 health is exactly 8 skeletons, which is what you get).

The same goes for two stacks of 20: you get 24 health for each stack, which is exactly 4 skeletons per stack, 8 together.

Finally, the reason why three stacks (14, 13, 13) give you 6 skeletons instead of 8, like the other two: 14*4=56 56/10=5.6 5.6*3=17.4 (17.4 health means only two skeletons, as the remaining health (5.4) is less than 5.5 and therefore, insufficient for another skeleton. The other two sttacks give you 13*4=52 52/10=5.2 5.2*3=15.6 each and 15.6 health is, two skeletons. Therefore, with Expert Necromancy, each stack (14, 13, 13) gives you two skeletons, which is a total of six, hence the difference.

Again, health for skeletons is calculated per stack, not the whole army. I hope that solves the problem.

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