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| Thread: Do More Changes!! Damn you 3DO!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Wiseman
Known Hero
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posted July 19, 2001 07:04 AM |
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Most imbalanced thing in HOMM3 was bad AI of computer opponent.Only way he could win was if he had more towns of the same type than you.And for the resourses they will remain same (look at the screenshoots).
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2001 04:30 PM |
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48 Arch Angels?
well when u have 48 Acrh Angels let me assume that I have at least 150 Mighty Gorgons! Oh and when I have 150 MG I probably have a beastmaster with 40 Defense skill while your knight is only has about 25 def! And IF u storm with your Arch Angels attacking Mighty Gorgons guess how many AAs you will have left when attacked with 200 Greater Basilisks 1000 Gnoll Marauders +100 MGs (And maybe with clone spell). And if that Beastmaster has clone or counterstrike OR expert prayer then u are really in trouble!
And if u have SoD u would know that Lizard Warriors and Dragon Flyes have been beefed up massively while Arch Angels would cost 5000 gp +3 gems making them the most expensive unit in game (non-town creatures excluded)
So don`t make me laugh saying that Fortress is a weak town.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted July 19, 2001 04:47 PM |
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Just out of curiousity, how is a hero that has acheived "god" level any more unbalancing than a hero that has 40+ archangels and can still win any battle even if they lose half of the archangels? Especially if they have dimension door and town portal (in my opinion, the two best spells in the game).
The challenge is always to get the hero to that god-like level...
At least for me it is. Perhaps my strategic skills are not on par with those of everybody elses.
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2001 08:26 PM |
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Yeah! New resouces!
Lets just add some tiberium into Homm3 right? LOL!!!
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Death
Known Hero
LEGEND OF HELL
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posted July 19, 2001 09:18 PM |
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LOL
But make there new recources like silver, uran... LOL
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RUN IF YOU CAN!!!
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Mojo
Hired Hero
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posted July 20, 2001 03:33 AM |
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Learn the facts please!!!!
First off, all of my information is found on: http://strategyplanet.com/homm/
Now this is addressed to Taylor2ooo.
Some of your requests are stupid, while others are quite reasonable... The thought of adding more resources is ridiculous. Why add more or change their name and appearance? However, 3DO has altered the mining. In order to extract resources you must build a mine or resource place over a resource area. I.E. You must build a gold mine (which costs money) over a gold vein to extract gold.
As for heroes, I think you're forgetting the element of fantasy. Sure a hero goes and takes over 6 castles without any injury, but if we complain about that why not population limits, or army rations, or so many other factors. Keep in mind that this is a fantasy game. To give the game a little more realism, if your hero does die in battle, you have to go rescue his/her body and then bring it to a castle and ressurrect the hero. Also they have created certain "classes" for heroes and also main skills which branch off into 3 different masteries. Finally, creatures themselves will be free to move around the adventure map without a hero.
As for your complaint with monster abilities, I find your complaint also ridiculous. However, 3D0 understood this problem and has given each unit an ability, I.E. A marksmen, having a crossbow, can shoot a further distance and therefore suffers no range penalty.
In my analyse, you are complaining that the game is too unbalanced (I.E. the resources, the creatures, the towns) In my opinion I found heroes 3 too balanced, but for heroes 4 the game and towns have undergone major changes as well as the magic to make the game seem a little more realistic and "balanced"
Mojo
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2001 04:51 AM |
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Specials and their uses
Ok, some things were said that need to be corrected, first of all- 100 MG's would kill more than 10 AA's most often I bet. A perfect roll for MG's would be 10 MG's killing 10 AA's... You have to realize it's a 10% chance for each individual MG, not the whole group. I've had really terrible rolls(54 MG's killing 0 Black Dragons) and really good rolls(next turn the remnents of those 54 MG's-22 MG's killed 6 Black Dragons).
Also- you have to know when to use different abilities. For instance- Dendroids, how about using teleport on them when your opponent waits his fast units? This can really destroy opponents strategy. Dendroids pretty resilient and having to move all his units to kill them and free the unit caught or else waste a spell on that instead of something more precious...
Master Genies everyone knows about I would think, they are incredibly useful I think. All sorts of things to do with them.
Ogre Magi- people forget to use their skill sometimes I think.
Pit Lords- maybe not as useful in the final battle though it is definately useful if you can keep them alive long enough, but incredible building up demon #'s prior to battle.
Familiar/Wraith's Familiar can sometimes be difference in very long battles. When both sides summoning and so on- or also early game battles- it can be useful to upgrade your imps for just 1000 gold and gain familiars if your fighting and your spell points under 100 like often is in early battles. 6 rounds of casting- not only is your opponent lost 32 spell points let's say, but you gained 12 so now it's 68 mana vs 80 mana... some early battles can last awhile. It makes a difference. Even more Wraiths, this is an awesome H&R army, before final battle just load all your scouts with 7 of them and charge them in, if you only use 5 scouts and only about 40% Wraiths survive long enough to drain... that's about 24 mana drained. Sometimes you can do better than that also. I find usually about 60% of Wraiths survive long enough and if I use 7 heroes- then that's 48 mana drained plus offensive spell damage. It's even better when you think you can get the Wraith's earlier than many spell casters can get much mana. I love to play Necro vs Solmyr and Deemer type heroes when I rush. I send in 6-7 hero first in week 1 or 2 and then follow with Thant or Vidomina with V-Lords and rest of Necro army I can afford. If Solmyr did good he has most likely at least advanced air magic, and with magi in army that makes chain cost about 18 per cast- so in week two he is around level 8 highest if it's early week 2 and been running back to castle to protect it from my rush. So I'll guess spell power of 6-7 and knowledge of 7-8. Probably if I got him before he got into town I can minus 48 mana, half his supply assuming he had full supply already. Of course if I let him sit in castle all turn then it's a useless strategy, but the point is to avoid that. He'll have only 1 or 2 casts of chain by then. If I have 6 power and 6 knowledge and also advanced air, I can cast a 160 damage lightening 7 times compared to his 2 chains doing 600 damage likely. So my 7 lightenings do 900 damage(all numbers rounded). Plus with v-lords and probably 1 cast of anmate dead... well, I know this works since I havee done it before. There are flaws in it as in any strategy, but with common statistics it's possible to fgure out average chances of each thing happening.
Now, what about those abilities people take for granted and don't count? Nagas immune to retalition is a special, so is Eyes immune to blind. Paralyze isn't meant to be strong, it should happen once or less per battle probably. Many creatures ablities in H3 are 10% chances. Ghosts aren't awesome 7th levels, but with a little luck you can use them really well. It's not about getting lucky with just one try, if you know the game you try everything you can and if only lucky 10% of the time, well, it makes you look very lucky and peopel that think good players are lucky see that and don't realize how many of the things a good player tried and didn't get lucky on and that failed, but they keep tryhing, odds are with them to succeed the more things they try.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted July 20, 2001 11:21 AM |
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Hit'n'Run
As I mentioned earlier I never use too tricky tactics.
I think specials in HoMM3 are imbalanced and flawed so people can't really just them unless they come this idea of Hit'n'Run which I BTW hate.
Every special counts for sure but they're not equal. They shouldn't be equal of course but they should be USEFUL. Useful that you don't have to this and that to make them work. They should be pretty powerful with each creature normally but they should be more powerful if you use them wisely. This is whole point. Creature specials should be so easy to use with each creature so they would be important to use. If there would be a creature with too powerful special compared to other creatures, the cost of the unit should be higher and the other stats maybe lower.
I personally don't take Nagas retaliation as granted but Naga would be great unit even without retaliation. I'm not meaning it should be taken away, but instead other units special should be as useful, not as powerful.
I'm not sure does anyone know what I'm talking about...
We have to just wait and see how things are in HoMM IV. We should keep make suggestions and keep emailing 3do so game would be in the future better. I find this kind of conservation as unuseful for any means.
I mean, we were talking about should there be more changes and people end up telling "the facts" about how in Heroes 3 specials were with each creature.
How many of you agree really that there shouldn't be useful special or they would be tough units otherwise...so every unit would be useful in HoMM3? Every unit would be also interesting this way and could be used in more of variety of strategies than earlier.
I wouldn't mind if there would be some new resources. Maybe two new ones would be good number. But I also think this is by all means necessary. There are only 6 towns in next HoMM and there are 6 resources so I think the current ones are enough for now. If there would be more towns I would consider more resources better...
We can't tell anything about HoMM IV for sure. There is chance that things are just what have been said in the interviews. But how many other changes 3do has made is to secret to everyone right now.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2001 12:29 AM |
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Specials
Well, I am not sure you thought this out all the way... if every creature had equally powerful special, and and all creatures had a special, then what is the point of special's at all? They have to be unbalanced to be fun and unique. The trick to me is making sure each town has creatures with one or two specials and balancing it that way. All specials have a place where they are supreme, manilpulating the battles to take advantage of each one is what the skill is about. I hate the AA resurrect ability personally. It's too easy. I hardly ever play castle, I don't want something to come that easily. Even Mighty Gorgons ability though cool is too easy. I prefer like Medusa or Cyclops, to use it you have to give up something valuable also. Dragons flies canceling beneficial spells isn't an awesome ability, but it certainly has a place. I don't want tons of specials on every creature, that would make it less interesting, specials should remain rare, and relatively weak except in certain circumstances.
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LordPaul
Promising
Famous Hero
Crazy Bat Guy.
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posted July 21, 2001 12:33 AM |
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Ichon.... I couldn't have said it better myself. But you need an avatar.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted July 21, 2001 01:03 AM |
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I could say better...
I'm not meaning tons of special to each creature but at least one if unit isn't really otherwise great. Normal grunt unit shouldn't really have to have special at all, but I think it's rip off to give them one weak special and then put their stats down because they have this special ability and it's useful sometimes (read very rarely). Then there would be another grunt unit without any specialty but great stats that would show the one having the special how to dance funky chicken.
Creatures should have special so there could be more variety among them and not only flying, ranged and grunt unit with little bit different stats.
I have never that specials should be equal. But what I mean that they should be equal when considering different strategies. What's the point of having specialty if it isn't useful or useful only very very rarely. You can always come with an idea how to use some I say stupid specialty which is very often nothing but disguise that one would think that creature really has special.
Specialties should be so powerful that they're useful most of the time and so you would have to think how to come up with different combos, but these combos should be more useful than in certain circumstances that almost ever are true. However they shouldn't be too powerful as you say that with one use of special like resurrection ability of archangel you can turn the battle upside town. If this would be the case unit should cost lot more or have reduced stats compared to unit from same level that hasn't even close same kind of special or stats. Just compare Ghost Dragons and Archangel. Even low level units should have special so you might end up thinking of buying those goblins from that newly conquered town instead of ogres.
I don't even see the point what Ichon you're saying. Maybe you're just trickster that enjoys using flaws of game for your own purposes. I find this very concerning. Game should be balanced (as close as it goes) between towns, creatures and artifacts so what you pay is what you get.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2001 01:26 AM |
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More
Ok, we agree on most points- you just didn't read what I said about the creatures getting specials- combos- well, impossible to balance that, I can tell you now. Because of the way H3 works, any town can eventually buy any other towns units at some point in the game. Look at other games that are exceptionally well balanced, AoE, Starcraft, Warcraft...etc- units there are unique to each side. If you can get any combination of the special units then it can't be balanced. Besides, what is so different about, petrify, paralyze, blinded... all those are the same. So- you can stun enemy(medusa, manticore, etc), benefit ally(ogre magi, master genie, etc), negative creature HP(poisen, illness, aging), negative creature attack or defense(curse, lower defense attack of AB's etc) the problem lies in what you can actually affect, there is- speed, HP, attack, defense, spells, or getting for me more interesting- Mighty Gorgons outright kill but that is actually really strong, AA's raising the dead and Pit Lords making demons, or non-retalitation specials combined with Hp drain and replace as in VL which is probably strongest special of all I think. I can see perhaps Zealots taking cleric like approach and just like master genies casting a spell, maybe heal, or cure rather than attacking. But however you look at it there are only so many things a special could affect in a battle, yet if any creature has a special which occurs outside of battle I know people would complain it's too weak. Why not Dwarves adding certain gold to your treasury or something, or trogs increasing the army line of site in darkness, etc. I wouldn't mind if every creature had a special if they weren't all battle specials, like almost any other series of strategy, rpg, adventure games.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted July 21, 2001 02:04 AM |
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I agree...
There should be specialties outside the battle.
This way there could be more specialties and maybe we could find almost every creature useful specialty.
There could be more normal specialties like first strike or no retaliation with creatures. Also there could be some specialties that could occur in some chance of percentage.
You're truly right that it's very hard to balance the game because you can hire creatures from different towns. However I think specialties shouldn't be so hard to use but there would be more combo specialties that would work together well.
I think it comes to the idea that when you're hiring troops you're already thinking your strategy and not buying only the most powerful (read higher level) units but also some low level units to create combos.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2001 02:21 AM |
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Combos
If you have a combo that works well though, so your opponent would and it'd cancel each one out. That's already formula in many other games. I'd rather keep H4 unique and interesting.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted July 21, 2001 02:35 AM |
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It's the idea of variety...
of tactics what can be used during battle.
That I meant with combos. I think heroes should stay unique but there's the problem that battles will be too simple. Now that gameplay is changing a little it would be great chance to add depth to battle strategy and that's why I mentioened combos.
BTW has anyone started thread about creature specialties/specialties used out of the battle?
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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