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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Arm Your battle Stations!
Thread: Arm Your battle Stations! This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 24, 2001 04:11 PM

But..

If we could restrict amount of creatures per level into one tower and possible make them vulnerable to spells and flyers I don't see any problem here...
Also because of the catapult it would be wise not to put your most important units into tower because it could mean you lose them quickly.
Rebuilding should be done pretty easily. You would have use only wood, ore and gold to get the walls fixed.

As I mentioned in my message there's this problem will the game come too complicated if we example add food into it? This would maybe mean that every army would have to have food resource with them. Maybe there would be some kind of wagon maintaining the troops and they should be filled when leaving town. However food would have to affect how far unit could go without getting supplies. This really would add strategic depth if everyday troops would need supplies to be able to fight and move.
Better way would be only use these supply wagons only during siege. You would have to buy them as all other war engines and they would go with you. The number of these wagons would tell how long (how many days) you could keep the siege. Also the towns would have their supplies and you could by them as arrow towers. Example castle would add warehouse to keep more supplies.

What I would like to have for sieges is also some kind of sabotage/spying skill or ability. Player could send troops to watch closely what kind of defenses there are and destroy some of them (like arrow towers) or try to poison some of the supplies. Also I would like to have different kind of ammos for catapult. Example ones that would be infected and would cause some kind of disease to defenders if hit by one of them.

These are only minor things to add there are many others but it could mean that Heroes would end up being hardcore strategy game than playable-have-fun-fantasy-game.

BTW there aren't really many good hardcore fantasy games out there (turn-based) or maybe word none would describe the current situation better. Should heroes be one?
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LordPaul
LordPaul


Promising
Famous Hero
Crazy Bat Guy.
posted July 24, 2001 09:30 PM

The problem with all these great ideas (and they are good) is that they will add too much to the game.  Right now it takes my opponent about 20 or so minutes to finish a round of online play.  If we add such features the only way to play such a game would be by e-mail.

Food would be interesting, but as Sha_men said, it would make this a hardcore strategy game.  And I don't think many of us here have the capability or time to play such games.

I also think we should just leave the towers alone.  Making them stronger of more customizable would only let people 'turtle' in there castles better until they get a huge army.  (once you build everything you rarely need resources - resource silo for level 7's).  

Siege attacks that take place over a few days (like in the real world) would be nice, but I don't see how that could be done.  Maybe you don't get income from your City Hall if there is an army outside the castle?


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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted July 25, 2001 06:00 AM

Reply to Sha_Men

Quote:
Why cannot we start restricting? Come on, Titans are pretty big creatures. And why not normal ground units could be in towers?

Titans are in "real life," but this is fantasy. HOMM stretches several lines of reality. I can imagine very strange castles with towers so large that 100 Titans are looking a long way down to the battle.
As for the ground units, go ahead and place them in the towers. I would if I had no shooters. I will defend my
castle the best way I can. The best spot would be in the tower.

Quote:
And how siege towers would fit in? ...

Humm... Siege towers primary you was to gain entrance to the castle.
So how about using your troops to move the siege tower closer to the castle walls. The stronger the group pushing the faster it is moved. When it reaches the wall any of your troops can climb up and over the wall.

Quote:
Someone said that Heroes isn't wargame.

They must not be a Chess player.

Quote:
Could attacker camp outside the main gate and wait some days there. Maybe the defender couldn't get any reinforcement and resources into the town to be used if there's siege camp outside...

I do think that the ideas are interesting, but will not work for the turn based motif of HOMM.

Quote:
I personally feel there are so many things that could be added to the heroes but I can only say that I don't believe 3do will do this. They only add something so the game could be balanced in the way that gameplay is easy and fun.

Maybe this ideas will not make it in this time, but who knows what will be in HOMM5. I am sure that it will be fun and balanced.
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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted July 25, 2001 08:51 AM

Reply to Shae_Trielle

Quote:
..I personally would like to see a cauldron option...

I do like the cauldron as an attack feature.

Quote:
...I think towers should be limited to three, but the defensive/offensive capabilities of these should be given some... player choice?

We should have the ability to add as many as there is room and that we are able to afford. Maybe what type of wall or tower should be the players choice.

Quote:
I also think that towers should be affected by spells. It would be great to be able to cast blind on a tower or stike the thing with a lighning bolt. It would add a new dimension to spellcasting/tactics (waste mana on the towers or not?).

Excellent Idea! I hope that I have enough mana.

Quote:
A rebuild option would be fantastic too. Broken walls from one siege should be still there for the next one.

The rebuild can happen during the opponents next turn if there is enough resources.

Quote:
....I would like to see FOOD as a resource..

This I fear would add more headaches than fun.

Quote:
It could cost the attacker one point of morale for every day sieged...

Multi-day sieges are not easy to accomplish in a turn based game. When does the seige start and stop? If there is a seige line what happens during opponents turn.  
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 25, 2001 10:52 AM

How siege could work...

It could work like ambush. I have thought this idea of ambushing that when hero uses ambush option the hero couldn't be seen in adventuring map if opponent doesn't have enough skill in scouting/spying. This hiding hero would have a area around him like wandering monster have that when opponent enters it hiding hero can attack and gain some advantage in the first rounds of fighting. There could be also some kind of stealth spell. This is however talked in another thread so I'm not going to go into details.

However when siege takes place hero that sieges would not be hidden but could create this area that is unpassable. There could be some wartents added as effect so you could see that siege is going on. Army  could held this siege as long as they have supplies (supply wagons)...
If the sieged towns forces would like to attack the siege he would get some kind of penalty of doing this and would have to fight without the help of towns walls. Also other heroes could attack the siege outside the town however in this case there wouldn't be any penalties...

More to come later...
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 25, 2001 05:22 PM

Straight from Gamespot article:

No More Catapults
That's right, there will no longer be siege engines in Heroes of Might and Magic IV. Not as such, anyway--a powerful ballista manned by a little halfling will be available for recruitment, for example. But in the previous games, when you attacked an enemy town, your hero would all of a sudden be armed with a catapult that would automatically fire on the town's walls as your opponent's archers rained deadly fire down on your forces from the parapets. That's all gone in Heroes IV. Now, defending players will be able to position their forces in fortified areas and will otherwise receive defensive bonuses while attacking from within their town. Meanwhile, attacking players will have to break through the city gate before getting inside the enemy town. This promises to make siege combat rather more balanced than in the previous games, wherein a deeply entrenched player stood little chance of losing his or her castle to the enemy. Otherwise, it's worth noting that New World hasn't finalized the details of siege combat as yet, so we weren't able to see it in action.
---------------------------------------------------
This changes thing a little bit. We have to just wait and see how this will work...
But rather more balanced?...
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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted July 25, 2001 05:34 PM

Reply to Sha_Men

Does it take time to build the siege line?
I would hope that it only required the resources in a caravan to build it.

Why a penalty, beyond the loss of the castle walls, if the forces leave the town to attack the siege line?

Hmmm...
What about an upgrade to the castle to attack the siege line.
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 25, 2001 07:03 PM

No...

It woudn't take time or maybe it would...
Maybe it would take all the movement of hero like digging the hole takes...or at least all for that day. Resources needed would only be the ones that are in supply wagon. Without them you couldn't held siege, you would have to just attack the town and hope for the best...

I just suggested that penalty would take a place. Surely you agree that the war party outside are pretty much organized out there and one leaving the castle is underdog. Unless the siege force is surprised but this is pretty hard to do...

What do you mean by upgrade?...
I'm not following you?...
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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted July 28, 2001 12:04 AM

Quote:
...Maybe it would take all the movement of hero like digging the hole takes...or at least all for that
day.

The siege line is not far away. It should not take any more movement to make it there.

Quote:
Resources needed would only be the ones that are in supply wagon. Without them you couldn't held siege, you would have to just attack the town and hope for the best...

I do think that fresh troops should be sent to hold the siege line, but I do not see why resources need be spent once it is built.

Quote:
I just suggested that penalty would take a place. Surely you agree that the war party outside are pretty much organized out there and one leaving the castle is underdog...

I do not believe that is the case. the best defense is a good offense. The question is what the morale of the Hero is not the morale of the castle.

If a hero has high morale, he will lead his war party out with his sword held high above his head and his troops will scream a War Cry that frightens the siege line troops. Or attack under a stealth mode and surprise the siege.

If his morale is low, then he has to push his troops outside the castle walls and they freeze in battle.

In both cases it is the morale of the hero witch determines any advantage or penalty, not the morale of the castle.

Quote:
What do you mean by upgrade?. I'm not following you?...

An upgrade of the castles defenses. We have been discussing a siege line that is outside the castle. We should be able to add upgrades to the map level of play, if the siege line is at the map level?. If it is fought inside the castle battle there to should there be an upgrade to fight the siege line.

If the siege line battle is inside the castle battle then there could be a tower upgrade that attacks the walls of the
siege line with giant boulders or fire bombs.
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Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 28, 2001 12:21 AM

Now someone is confused..

I'm confused...

What is siege line that you are talking about?
What I mean is that one wants not to attack the town but make a siege he must build siege line. This would work same like garrison or something like that. It would take posssibly whole day or maybe some movement to build the siege line surrounding the town. Siege line could be only build if you own warmachine called supplywagon. The amount of supplywagons would measure how many days you can keep up the siege. If you don't own supplywagon you can only attack the town directly.

If "siege line" is there I'm totally sure that they will be more ready to fight outside the town than the troops that attack from the town against the siege line. And I'm not meaning any morale penalty. Morale could of course go lower if the siege is held long enough.

Are there any real "walls" in the siege line or are there just line that shows which is affected by siege. There could be warmachines that could attack against siege building like wartents and such.

All these suggestions are of course now really sceptical because it seems that 3do has changed the siege battles pretty much from HoMM3.
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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted July 28, 2001 08:28 PM

Quote:
I'm confused...What is siege line that you are talking about?


I see a siege line as a wall around a castle. Not necessarily made of stone or wood, but a line held to keep the opponents troops from leaving or coming. A battle sequence would take place when the siege line is being attacked from inside the castle or from a returning Hero attacking from the outside.  


Quote:
... This would work same like garrison

Yes it would. It can be resupplied and hold troop like a castle.  

Quote:
Siege line could be only build if you own warmachine called supplywagon. The amount of supplywagons would measure how many days you can keep up the siege. If you don't own supplywagon you can only attack the town directly.

It would seem to me that making a siege line is an option that would require the supply wagon, but once used than it would be gone.


Quote:
..Are there any real "walls" in the siege line or are there just line that shows which is affected by siege. There could be warmachines that could attack against siege building like wartents and such.

I think that to start there would not be a real wall, just troops, first aid tents, and siege tents. each turn the siege
line can be upgraded like a castle. The upgrades would is an order such as: barricades, small walls, tall walls,
and shooter boxes.

Quote:
All these suggestions are of course now really sceptical because it seems that 3do has changed the siege battles pretty much from HoMM3.

There is always HOMM5



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Gunnrunner
Gunnrunner


Adventuring Hero
The Mail Order Bride From Hell
posted July 29, 2001 11:02 AM

The only thing that prevents your idea from being massacred is the fact that siegers must demolish walls first before the towers. Maybe we cant fit titans but we can fit the lowest level shooters. This fits with another idea of mine. If there are going to be say 7 units per town then they should make it say: Lv. 1 Weak H-H Combat Unit Lv. 2 Weak Shooter Lv. 3 Weak Flyer, Lv. 4 Strond H-H Combat Unit Lv. 5 Strong Shooter Lv. 6 Strong Flyer Lv. 7 Ultimate unit with whatever. Each of these units could upgrade and different cities and units have different upgrades to suit the players needs.
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arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 29, 2001 12:38 PM

hmm gunnrunner have you been to this yet cos some of your posts look a bit odd (7th lvl creatures theres only 4 lvls now)

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/previews/0,10869,2797577,00.html
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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted July 30, 2001 06:50 PM

Quote:
...Each of these units could upgrade and different cities and units have different upgrades to suit the players needs.

I am not sure how this is different than the upgrades in HOMM3.
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Paradigm
Paradigm


Adventuring Hero
posted August 04, 2001 05:18 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:33, 08 Jan 2008.

A second wall with towers can be built. Complete with drawbridge and a courtyard that can be manned with troops.


Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url].
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