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| Thread: WOW Mighty Gorgon is da best!! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 13, 2004 06:31 PM |
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Quote:
Yea but aging does not always happen, while death stare does.
Sorry, wrong.
Death stare DOESNīt always work, but the chances are quite higher than aging, thatīs for sure....
But "Aging" can be healed or cured, while there is NOTHING u can do against deathstare (except resurrecting the death units of corse.. )
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Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
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posted June 13, 2004 08:03 PM |
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Quote:
Sorry, wrong.
Death stare DOESNīt always work, but the chances are quite higher than aging, thatīs for sure....
ANd could it be that death stares chance to appear is higher against heroes? I allways got the feeling that it is so. All the time I played heroes 3, the death stare appeared nearly every attack against an opponent's heroe's troop and not that often in fights with "wild" creatures...
Besides you're right with the curable-comparision ^^
regards
Daddy
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 15, 2004 05:07 PM |
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Death stare DOES always work. Each individual Moo has a 10% chance to kill an enemy. That is what always work, and thus, in consequence of the Law of Large Numbers it ends up killing up to 1/10th of its stack size.
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kwahraps
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 15, 2004 07:39 PM |
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I'd like to know where you studied law . . .
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 15, 2004 07:56 PM |
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Edited By: csarmi on 15 Jun 2004
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This is a probability theorem (mathematics).
Roughly speaking,
The Weak Law of Large Numbers (WLLN) states that if you cast a dice n times, you will get "5" roughly n/6 times (with a big probability).
Now it states no more than if you have lots of gorgons (say n), it is almost sure that they will kill n/10 creatures by death stare.
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 15, 2004 08:02 PM |
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Um, isn't it a 10% chance for each 10 gorgons or something?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 15, 2004 08:44 PM |
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Nope, it is a 10% chance for each individual gorgon, but there is a cap on the number of enemies you can kill - you cannot kill more than {number of your gorgons}/10 rounded up. So you can kill at most 3 with 21 moos, but only 2 with 20 moos.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 16, 2004 06:26 PM |
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Sorry csarmi, but you are definately wrong.
There was a thread, where Xarfax posted the correct percentages of deathstare-working, but i couldnīt find it now....there was no 100% issue.....and u can try it by your own, when testing (i did that many times, and there were some moments where it didnīt happen.)
Actually in my last game (tribe finals against raistlin on last friday, me fortress, he castle), i had to break against 10 AAīs. I had 15 mighty gorgons, and deathstare didnīt work on TWO attacks...so when following your math, at least ONE AA had to be killed by 15 mighties....but didnīt happen....
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kwahraps
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 16, 2004 07:06 PM |
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The odds of death stare occurring and the numbers of creatures affected are two different factors, with the number of creatures affected based on Mighty Gorgon stack size. (Stack size/10 rounded up)
So, for your 15 moos, each one would have a 10% chance of using death stare, but only 2 can be successful. So, if you roll a 10-sided dice 15 times, and don't roll a 1 (indicating success), then nothing will happen.
I would think that the odds of success increase susbtantially with stack size. That is, for 15 moos, it is feasible not to roll a 1 on 15 d10 rolls. Yet, if you had 75 moos, then your odds or rolling at least a single 1 are higher. The higher the number of moos, the more likely you will be successful (the rolls will become more evenly distributed among all 10 numbers).
In most games, players generally tend to have high stacks of moos, which is why it seems to work 100% of the time.
In reality, you could have 100 moos get their death stare to work, but only kill 1 creature. (1 success in 100 rolls)
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Vadskye91
Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
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posted June 16, 2004 07:07 PM |
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There is almost never a 100% chance of anything. The odds were against my posting this, but I did it anyway. You can't get 100%. Period. (which is why I don't believe Celf's casino-cheating plan.)
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Knowledge is power...
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 16, 2004 07:38 PM |
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Quote:
Sorry csarmi, but you are definately wrong.
There was a thread, where Xarfax posted the correct percentages of deathstare-working, but i couldnīt find it now....there was no 100% issue.....and u can try it by your own, when testing (i did that many times, and there were some moments where it didnīt happen.)
Actually in my last game (tribe finals against raistlin on last friday, me fortress, he castle), i had to break against 10 AAīs. I had 15 mighty gorgons, and deathstare didnīt work on TWO attacks...so when following your math, at least ONE AA had to be killed by 15 mighties....but didnīt happen....
This whole post proves that you have no idea of this so stop arguing...
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 17, 2004 07:23 PM |
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Quote:
This whole post proves that you have no idea of this so stop arguing...
Are we still allowed to talk to you without getting on our knees? 
As you do in other threads, u do it here. Talking about things, from which perhaps YOU have no clue about.
Perhaps u could be so kind, and tell us all, what is so wrong in my post, which only describes what HAPPENED....
.......very funny...
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 17, 2004 07:28 PM |
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Quote:
The odds of death stare occurring and the numbers of creatures affected are two different factors, with the number of creatures affected based on Mighty Gorgon stack size. (Stack size/10 rounded up)
So, for your 15 moos, each one would have a 10% chance of using death stare, but only 2 can be successful. So, if you roll a 10-sided dice 15 times, and don't roll a 1 (indicating success), then nothing will happen.
I would think that the odds of success increase susbtantially with stack size. That is, for 15 moos, it is feasible not to roll a 1 on 15 d10 rolls. Yet, if you had 75 moos, then your odds or rolling at least a single 1 are higher. The higher the number of moos, the more likely you will be successful (the rolls will become more evenly distributed among all 10 numbers).
In most games, players generally tend to have high stacks of moos, which is why it seems to work 100% of the time.
In reality, you could have 100 moos get their death stare to work, but only kill 1 creature. (1 success in 100 rolls)
I know how that math works and i agree with these things,....but the arguement of csarmi was not "it works allways with large stacks of mighties", but he said "It DOES always work".....and that is simply WRONG....
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kwahraps
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 17, 2004 08:05 PM |
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Angelito,
Simply put, csarmi is wrong for stating that the death stare will always work, even with a high number of Mighty Gorgons. As the stack size increases, yes, the odds of getting it to work approach very high percentages (90%+), so for 100 MGs, you would have to roll 100 times and not get a single roll of a 1 for it not to work. Highly unlikely, but altogether possible.
His "holier than thou" attitude can be a bit ingratiating, but I've come to expect these things. His analysis of 1 on 1 level 7 creatures dueling was fairly compelling. Yet, the condescending attitude is often unnecessary.
Oh, well. To each their own.
Good luck.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 17, 2004 09:28 PM |
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Edited By: csarmi on 17 Jun 2004
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Quote:
I know how that math works and i agree with these things,....but the arguement of csarmi was not "it works allways with large stacks of mighties", but he said "It DOES always work".....and that is simply WRONG....
You still don't get what I say, do you?
Maybe I was being unclear. Let me put it straight then.
The manual states that you have 10% chance of killing one creature per 10 mighty gorgons outright.
That's very confusing, this is why I tried to emphasize that the death stare DOES always work.
Death stare = the fact that each individual creature gets a 10% chance to kill an enemy.
It's effect is that some enemies die, which is of course random, and you can't be sure that you succeed in killing even a single one.
This chance is always there, that's what I mean when I say "always work".
I hope it is clear now.
So you always roll the dice. That's all.
But I repeat, it is a very important thing! Cause the manual is really very confusing (even misleading) about it, just remember Lord Woock's question. (that's what I thought too for a while)
Quote:
Perhaps u could be so kind, and tell us all, what is so wrong in my post, which only describes what HAPPENED...
That's why I say you have no clue. For your argumentation lacked something at the very basics. You failed to understand what I said and in consequence, you managed to prove that - what I never said - was wrong. Of course.
So - my english seems to be very bad to cause misunderstandings.
By "death stare working" you mean you roll the dice AND get a 10.
By death stare working I mean - you get to roll the dice. AND if you manage to roll a 10, it's effect is killing an enemy.
Do we agree now?
Was the manual clear, the fact that you get to roll the dice should not have been emphasized at all, but this way it seems to be a major issue for me.
So, basically, what I do is dividing this special thing to 2 phases.
First, the creature gets to use it (mostly randomly, with a percentage chance).
Second, the effect is calculated.
In the case of Ghost Dragon, it goes like this:
Phase one (will it work or not?): you roll and you have a 20% chance of being successful (getting it to work). So it is random.
Phase two (what will the effect be): it is deterministic, the whole stack loses half of its HP.
In the case of Mighty Moos:
Phase one (will it work or not): It will work, deterministically.
Phase two (what will the effect be): You cast a dice for each individual creature, etc... - so it is random.
So the main difference between these two specialties is this:
Aging will work randomly, but it's effect is deterministic.
Death stare will work deterministicaly (always), but it's effect random.
Now does that makes sense? Or do I overcomplicate it? :-)
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 17, 2004 11:15 PM |
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...two peeps talking bad english and meaning the same always leeds into a quarrel (i know what im talking about...lool).
Both mean the same..but dont understand each other.
Csarmi means that deathstare works for each cow in the stack . In his words "always". Thats correct.
Angelito means that there is no 100% per stack , which is correct too. In his words "not always".
Csarmi means thats aging works 20% per stack not per ghost dragon. Unlikely it is with the deathstare of the cows. Thats correct too.
I hope i could help before you pull the guns
Xarfax1
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted June 17, 2004 11:26 PM |
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Edited By: csarmi on 17 Jun 2004
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Yea that's it, I knew we were saying the same and wondered where will it be transparent for them too :-)
Thanks, Xarfax.
Everyone speaks a different language.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 17, 2004 11:36 PM |
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(copy-paste)
1.)EVERY SINGLE MOOs in the stack has a 10% chance to deathstare.
2.) The maximum PER 10 MOOs to deathstare is 1 Creature.
So the problities are:
for 1 to 10 MOOs:
1 10% - - -
2 19% - - -
5 41% - - -
10 65% - - -
for 11 to 20 MOOs:
11 68.5% 30% - -
15 79.5% 45% - -
20 88% 61% - -
above 20 and so on:
21 89% 63.5% 35% -
25 93% 73% 46% -
30 96% 81.5% 59% -
31 96% 83% 61% 37.5%
40 98.5% 92% 77.5% 57.5%
Explaination:
Every single Mo in a stack has a chance of 10%. So it does not accumulate to 100%.
Every 10 Moos uve a chance to deathstare 1 more creature, means for example: U need at least 11 Moos to be able to deathstare 2 creatures, or 21 Moos to deathstare 3 creatures.
Xarfax1
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gorman
Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
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posted June 18, 2004 12:04 AM |
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lol Now there's some beef for dinner All that talk about the mighty moo's and it's deathstare attack. They would definatly be quite the creature if it's deathstare could be 100%...
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted June 20, 2004 10:50 PM |
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Quote:
Death stare = the fact that each individual creature gets a 10% chance to kill an enemy.
It's effect is that some enemies die, which is of course random, and you can't be sure that you succeed in killing even a single one.
This chance is always there, that's what I mean when I say "always work".
Then why did you say that the ghost dragon's aging ability DOESN'T always work? And there's no "doesn't work on non-living" excuses, because that applies to gorgons as well.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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