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mvassilev
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posted June 25, 2008 06:52 PM |
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Its true people shouldnt mistake with humane life,but what life does embrio have before birth?
The same as you and me.
No. It is not viable until a certain point. So it is hardly the same.
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the so-called family is responsible for bringing the fetus -- now he must 'suffer' because of them.
The fetus never asked to exist anyway.
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Asheera
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posted June 25, 2008 06:55 PM |
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now he must 'suffer' because of them.
Why do you think he suffers anyway?
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 06:59 PM |
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The fetus never asked to exist anyway.
You didn't either, but I don't see you want to commit suicide 
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Why do you think he suffers anyway?
Because I do not think there's an abrupt change at a point where he abruptly gets feelings, etc...
But the thing is, even if you don't take my word for it, that we don't know. It's not good to play with things you don't know
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mvassilev
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posted June 25, 2008 08:19 PM |
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You didn't either, but I don't see you want to commit suicide
But many people are committing suicide. And remember that babies cry when they're born. Generally, crying is not an expression of happiness.
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 08:22 PM |
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What's that supposed to mean, that we kill all babies?
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Asheera
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posted June 25, 2008 08:55 PM |
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But the thing is, even if you don't take my word for it, that we don't know. It's not good to play with things you don't know
If we (the humans) followed this advise we wouldn't get anywhere.
Like:
Caveman: "Ah... look at that pretty thingy! (fire) But I shouldn't "play" with it, no good with things not known, nonono"
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 08:57 PM |
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Like:
Caveman: "Ah... look at that pretty thingy! (fire) But I shouldn't "play" with it, no good with things not known, nonono"
This has nothing to do with it, because you see, with abortion you don't study the baby life, you just kill it
Besides, even if it would be, why should we choose who to murder in the name of research? Would you sacrifice yourself or are you just criticizing from a safe distance
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mvassilev
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posted June 25, 2008 09:10 PM |
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In the case of brain-dead people, euthanasia is okay because it doesn't cause any pain. What about fetuses that have not yet developed nervous systems? They wouldn't feel any pain either.
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 09:15 PM |
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So what you're saying is that, as long as I don't feel pain, it's ok to kill me? Can't wait for those kind of painless weapons that are going to be legal to kill people
besides, i am not talking only about the 'physical' pain/suffering, it's more like a metaphor -- just the same 'pain' you feel when you are being used as a playground by someone else (I hope you know what I'm talking about)
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antipaladin
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posted June 25, 2008 09:17 PM |
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So back to my crackhead's child abortion case.
what would u do? raise it? or not 'have it in the first place'?
so easy to judge.
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mvassilev
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posted June 25, 2008 09:30 PM |
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So what you're saying is that, as long as I don't feel pain, it's ok to kill me?
There's more to it than that? You have a brain. You have a nervous system. You have skin and all of your organs (I assume).
How is a fetus without a brain or nervous system different from a sponge? (Other than it would normally develop into a human later. But I'm saying that at the time.)
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 09:40 PM |
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what would u do? raise it? or not 'have it in the first place'?
so easy to judge.
By 'not have it in the first place' I assume you meant truly not having it in the first place, you know you can't just 'fix' it by killing it. If you don't want to have it in the first place, then don't get pregnant..
so easy
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How is a fetus without a brain or nervous system different from a sponge? (Other than it would normally develop into a human later. But I'm saying that at the time.)
Ok let me put it like this. Did you ever had an unique opportunity or chance that you could never 'change your mind' but had to do it in that moment? What if your mother gave you the chance to breathe? Cool, maybe it's what you wanted.
But then she takes it and kills you.
The other scenario is, if she never ever gave you the chance to breathe in the first place (she didn't get pregnant). In this second scenario, you can't blame her for taking that chance because she didn't give it to you in the first place.
There's a difference between these above. When you give someone a chance to something, don't expect it to be like "you know, I changed my mind, I'm gonna take it" because they are not your toys. If you never 'bought' this 'toy' you don't have to complain.
It's why it's not only "possible life" but like I said, life that has already been given a chance, a hope, etc... taking it out is bad. not giving it in the first place is not. There's a difference. And I'm with the latter here, not the type of "I want more babies", but the type of "be responsible for what you do, especially when it WILL involve someone else, directly or indirectly".
So you can say I'm anti-pregnancy not pro-life
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Asheera
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posted June 25, 2008 09:49 PM |
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It's why it's not only "possible life" but like I said, life that has already been given a chance, a hope, etc...
But the baby doesn't have a "life" until he/she is born! It is known universally!
Who are you to judge when the baby gains life? You could also say sperm has life, right?
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 09:54 PM |
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But the baby doesn't have a "life" until he/she is born! It is known universally!
It isn't known at all, in fact I am quite surprised you made such a statement, by the way, even some pro-aborts are against after 3-5 month or similar
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Who are you to judge when the baby gains life?
The difference is that I am no judge because I do not make such a dire act of possible killing (possible because you seem don't agree). Naturally the baby doesn't go away -- it's then when you judge he should be killed or not, not when you 'let things go by themselves'. So I guess pro-aborts are judges on life.
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You could also say sperm has life, right?
Does sperm grow into a human without any other action?
I feel like I am repeating myself well over 4 times already. There is a difference between possible life (sperm, etc.) and a process that has already started (fetus). Please read some posts back I already explained this.
It would also help to know what responsibility means -- I think pro-aborts just want to shake off responsibility; but you also have to distinguish between a small 'accident' and a serious one. As far as I can tell, this is quite serious, since we're talking about life and others being involved!
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Asheera
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posted June 25, 2008 10:05 PM |
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It isn't known at all, in fact I am quite surprised you made such a statement
But it is known. As far as I know, if someone murders a pregnant mother the killer is not accused of 2 murders. But I'm not a law-expert, and if I'm wrong then I'm sorry I brought this up.
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 10:09 PM |
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But it is known. As far as I know, if someone murders a pregnant mother the killer is not accused of 2 murders. But I'm not a law-expert, and if I'm wrong then I'm sorry I brought this up.
Who said anything about the law? I think you are right, but the 'law' is also different for different countries. Law also once did not tolerate black people (or gay people).
I mean, I understand that the law can as well encourage killing, but I do not think that it would be 'good' just because the law encourages it (of course this is only a silly example).
I'm talking about life & death & killing. I think we should place more emphasis on morals or common sense when talking about things like that or discrimination, etc.. not say "it's wrong because the law says so, PERIOD" or similar 
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antipaladin
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posted June 25, 2008 10:10 PM |
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There is a difference between possible life (sperm, etc.) and a process that has already started (fetus).
The process of life starts before fetusing,but alas meny fetuss die premuturly. are there no aborts made by nature,ilness trouma? how about the women that are cannot get pregented,or unfertile men? praphes they shouldnt adopt too,why not ban gay merrige while we at it.
p.s. im quite impressed by the sperm exemple!
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TheDeath
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posted June 25, 2008 10:15 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 22:16, 25 Jun 2008.
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The process of life starts before fetusing,but alas meny fetuss die premuturly. are there no aborts made by nature,ilness trouma?
I don't think that a tragedy such as illness is called "normal natural course" if you know what I mean.
And even if so, then you won't need abortion in the first place, but unfortunately you see it's not the 'normal' way of nature, and in fact, quite well otherwise we couldn't have babies at all.
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how about the women that are cannot get pregented,or unfertile men?
What about them?
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praphes they shouldnt adopt too,why not ban gay merrige while we at it.
p.s. im quite impressed by the sperm exemple!
Please re-read some posts back (previous page perhaps) I am already repeating this for far too long, and I don't think I can handle this anymore.
Sperm is not a process that has already started. The fetus has started already -- that's why you need to stop it. Do you need abortions for sperm? Nope. Do you need abortions (i.e do something to stop it) for fetus? Yep.
You don't need to stop sperm (because it doesn't do anything 'by itself'), but you need to stop a fetus by abortion. There is a difference. Please people read that carefully.
If I am going to repeat this one more time I think I'm gonna blow.
Besides what has adoption got to do with it anyway?
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Asheera
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posted June 25, 2008 10:22 PM |
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@Death: I understand the law is flawed, but then again why should we listen to your preferences, when you yourself don't know when a baby gains "life"?
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Sperm is not a process that has already started. The fetus has started already -- that's why you need to stop it. Do you need abortions for sperm? Nope. Do you need abortions (i.e do something to stop it) for fetus? Yep.
You don't need to stop sperm (because it doesn't do anything 'by itself'), but you need to stop a fetus by abortion. There is a difference. Please people read that carefully.
Yes, the fetus is a process that has already started. It is NOT a life that has already started. That's a difference
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mvassilev
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posted June 25, 2008 10:26 PM |
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What if your mother gave you the chance to breathe?
But you don't even have the ability to choose.
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life that has already been given a chance, a hope, etc... taking it out is bad
Vegetables are life too... so are animals, and so on.
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I guess pro-aborts are judges on life.
No, it is the pregnant women who choose whether to have an abortion that are the judges. Don't like abortion? Good, don't have one!
And you're wrong about the fetus being a process as having started and that will progress by itself. It needs hormones and nourishment from the woman, and so on. If it is deprived of those, then the mother will miscarry. So, if in the early stages of pregnancy, it is possible to have a non-invasive abortion, simply by taking a hormonal pill that will deprive the fetus of those hormones.
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