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Elodin
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posted July 15, 2009 06:42 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 18:44, 15 Jul 2009.
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Killing babies is what is cruel, not prevention of their murder.
Oh...now we call a fetus "a baby" already? Great.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Baby
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baby
1. an infant or very young child.
2. a newborn or very young animal.
3. the youngest member of a family, group, etc.
4. an immature or childish person.
5. a human fetus.[/quote]
@ smvuy
I'm sorry that you have nothing but insults to "contribute" to the discussion.
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TheDeath
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posted July 15, 2009 08:44 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 20:48, 15 Jul 2009.
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It's only HER reponsibility because NO ONE ELSE CAN TAKE IT! The responsibility, I mean. What it involves is of no or lesser consequence. Accepting the responsibility for ANOTHER life is no automatic function of becoming pregnant.
Which brings us to another question: A woman gets pregnant. Let's say she is forced to bear the child until birth, then she's giving it to adoption. What about the "father" in the time of pregnancy? What is HIS responsibility? HIS personal sacrifice? Where is HE involved? He was involved, obviously. If he did something at all to avoid a pregnancy, he did a lousy job.
Which is another reason why it's WOMAN'S responsibility - SHE bears the consequences, and if there is doubt, SHE has the work. So, allowing abortion is a question of social equality as well.
No. I'm sorry that nature/God designed the world for women to bear a child and you may think it's sexist. Since the woman knows about it, then obviously, she is solely responsible since she is the only one to bear the child.
In this case, yes, women have more responsibilities, and more consequences regarding life, and they KNOW it. Go blame nature for making it unfair. 
(although like I said, the father should support the mother, financial or otherwise, during and after pregnancy, unless the child is adopted).
EDIT: for instance suppose there is a genetically engineered human species with a nuke near the stomach. I think you'll agree that no matter how "equal" you want to be, they have far greater responsibilities than us
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you are beyond any discussion.... trying to convince you is to medicate a dead man
same could be said the same about you...
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Oh...now we call a fetus "a baby" already? Great.
Why not? Look it up on a dictionary.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 16, 2009 07:57 AM |
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It's only HER reponsibility because NO ONE ELSE CAN TAKE IT! The responsibility, I mean. What it involves is of no or lesser consequence. Accepting the responsibility for ANOTHER life is no automatic function of becoming pregnant.
Which brings us to another question: A woman gets pregnant. Let's say she is forced to bear the child until birth, then she's giving it to adoption. What about the "father" in the time of pregnancy? What is HIS responsibility? HIS personal sacrifice? Where is HE involved? He was involved, obviously. If he did something at all to avoid a pregnancy, he did a lousy job.
Which is another reason why it's WOMAN'S responsibility - SHE bears the consequences, and if there is doubt, SHE has the work. So, allowing abortion is a question of social equality as well.
No. I'm sorry that nature/God designed the world for women to bear a child and you may think it's sexist. Since the woman knows about it, then obviously, she is solely responsible since she is the only one to bear the child.
Yes, you say it yourself. SHE is SOLELY responsible. Which means, then, SHE is making the decisions, that is so, Death. When YOU are solely responsble for something, when YOU have all the work with something, when no one can help you or release you from it, then YOU make the calls. And it's not nature who's sexist or oppressive against women - it's YOU because YOU give HER sole responsibility, but don't want to let HER decide about it.
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TheDeath
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posted July 16, 2009 08:54 PM |
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No that is wrong. If a person hits someone else in a car accident it's his sole responsibility to take care of him. He CANNOT refuse it because he did the accident. He must pay and bring him to a hospital, or call 911. Why is that so hard to understand?
Just because you are solely responsible for something doesn't mean you can choose what you want without consequences and charges.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 16, 2009 09:19 PM |
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LOL.
Death, what you mean is that you are solely TO BLAME not RESPONSIBLE.
And while you ARE to blame when you have an abortion, you are to blame as well if you write the next Harry Potter - and burn it before everyone can read it. Even if 10 others gave their input.
Death, an 8 weeks old mix of sperm and egg gets flushed out. WHO CARES? Do they get names? Ares they buried? Are they getting a last baptising or last rites?
Look at REAL children. Starving, abused, in poverty, ill...
Get a GRIP, for frag's sake.
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TheDeath
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posted July 16, 2009 09:33 PM |
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LOL.
Death, what you mean is that you are solely TO BLAME not RESPONSIBLE.
And while you ARE to blame when you have an abortion, you are to blame as well if you write the next Harry Potter - and burn it before everyone can read it. Even if 10 others gave their input.
What do you mean? Of course you are to be blamed for the accident, but you are also responsible for that person. You are THEN blamed even more, based on your choice's consequences (you can kill the victim, or you can bring him/her to the hospital).
It is RESPONSIBILITY. Blame happens after your choice, but the responsibility and the choice, is yours. Of course you can also always choose to kill that person and cover the accident up; don't get surprised if you get caught and put in jail though (that's the blame).
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Death, an 8 weeks old mix of sperm and egg gets flushed out. WHO CARES? Do they get names? Ares they buried? Are they getting a last baptising or last rites?
That isn't her choice though.
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Look at REAL children. Starving, abused, in poverty, ill...
Get a GRIP, for frag's sake.
This is irrelevant. It's a moral dilemma, which has nothing to do with fairness in justice.
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xerdux
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posted July 16, 2009 09:42 PM |
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Well yes, in one way a sperm is a "human" but in another way they have not yet evolved to be "real" humans.
I cannot feel empathy for a sperm and abortion is fine, just so you do it early. I dont expect you to chop off the head of 1 month old baby, that would be brutal
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Kraken
Famous Hero
I just love being elemental
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posted July 16, 2009 09:48 PM |
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I agree with abortions actually, every Pregnant Women should choose for their own Sake, and everyone should leave Abortionists alone. It is none of peoples business to bother a Women who's getting an abortion. And Doctors should be left alone from insults and death threats and bombings. You should keep your opinion in your head. And, let the Women decide if she wants it or not.
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TheDeath
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posted July 16, 2009 09:51 PM |
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ROFL xerdux, you think a fetus is sperm? 
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xerdux
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posted July 16, 2009 09:53 PM |
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???
I didnt refer to any other posters when I wrote what I did.
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TheDeath
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posted July 16, 2009 10:00 PM |
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I don't understand a word you just said -- I mean in context.
You said "I cannot feel empathy for a sperm and abortion is fine, just so you do it early." which made me laugh because it implies you think the fetus, which is being aborted, is sperm.
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xerdux
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posted July 16, 2009 10:01 PM |
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I can abort sperms into the toilet myself xD
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 16, 2009 10:02 PM |
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Well yes, in one way a sperm is a "human" but in another way they have not yet evolved to be "real" humans.
I cannot feel empathy for a sperm and abortion is fine, just so you do it early. I dont expect you to chop off the head of 1 month old baby, that would be brutal
 Welcome to the club.
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TheDeath
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posted July 16, 2009 10:03 PM |
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I can abort sperms into the toilet myself xD
are you doing it intentionally? Do you really think a fetus is sperm? Now seriously. (no laughing)
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Corribus
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posted July 16, 2009 10:04 PM |
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I can abort sperms into the toilet myself xD
Information overload....
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Elodin
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posted July 16, 2009 10:05 PM |
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Look at REAL children. Starving, abused, in poverty, ill...
Get a GRIP, for frag's sake.
To say a fetus is not a real child is to show a lack of understand of basic biology. Perhaps it is you who should get a grip.
The cells of the fetus are multiplying rapidly and so the fetus is alive. The cells of dead things don't multiply.
The fetus is the product of human conception and has human DNA so the fetus is human life. A human baby.
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It is none of peoples business to bother a Women who's getting an abortion.
Sure it is. The mother should not be able to kill her baby just because she does not want it to exist.
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JollyJoker
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posted July 16, 2009 10:14 PM |
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What do you mean? Of course you are to be blamed for the accident, but you are also responsible for that person. You are THEN blamed even more, based on your choice's consequences (you can kill the victim, or you can bring him/her to the hospital).
It is RESPONSIBILITY. Blame happens after your choice, but the responsibility and the choice, is yours. Of course you can also always choose to kill that person and cover the accident up; don't get surprised if you get caught and put in jail though (that's the blame).
I haven't got the slightest clue what you are talking about. What do you mean? We are not talking about car accidents here. We are talking about a couple of cells that need a specific environment to develop. It's solely the responsibility or TASK of one person to do that, and no one can FORCE that person to do it. Now do we start deterrence again? You HAVE TO DO IT OR ELSE! Not in this case. An abortion is no restaurant visit either. It's not gratifying. So what the hell do you want?
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Death, an 8 weeks old mix of sperm and egg gets flushed out. WHO CARES? Do they get names? Ares they buried? Are they getting a last baptising or last rites?
That isn't her choice though.
Again, what are you talking about? What isn't whose choice?
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Look at REAL children. Starving, abused, in poverty, ill...
Get a GRIP, for frag's sake.
This is irrelevant. It's a moral dilemma, which has nothing to do with fairness in justice.
Fairness in justice? ARE YOU KIDDING? You just told me about how nature was unfair.
I'll tell you something about fairness in justice, if you don't want abortions. Forbid abortions, allow adoption, as it is, but make a law that will put every father of a child that is given to adoption into jail with forced hard labor for 1 year.
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Kraken
Famous Hero
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posted July 16, 2009 10:27 PM |
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Sure it is. The mother should not be able to kill her baby just because she does not want it to exist.
That's pretty much invading her Personal life. And, sometimes she can't have the baby.
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Elodin
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posted July 16, 2009 10:30 PM |
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Sure it is. The mother should not be able to kill her baby just because she does not want it to exist.
That's pretty much invading her Personal life. And, sometimes she can't have the baby.
Huh? You think pepole should be able to murder others just because they want to? That violates the personal life of the other person.
I've said many times if the mother's life in in danger she should be free to abort the baby.
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TheDeath
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posted July 16, 2009 10:32 PM |
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It's solely the responsibility or TASK of one person to do that, and no one can FORCE that person to do it.
No. You don't get it, obviously.
A car accident usually results in a victim. Suppose you are not hurt, and YOU caused the accident.
No one is around. What do you do? What is your SOLE RESPONSIBILITY here? What is your TASK?
To take care of that person.
You don't want? You get charged, depending on the accident's graveness, after all, you made the accident (or conceived the fetus, or "dragged" it into your home). You made it your responsibility, now it's your task to do so and take care of it.
It's not like the fetus HAS A CHOICE. Say, someone comes to you and says "I want you to take care of me". Of course then, you can refuse. But if YOU drag it, or you cause the accident, it is your TASK, your obligation, to take care of him/her. If you don't, you WILL be charged (especially by that person, unless you kill him/her).
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Again, what are you talking about? What isn't whose choice?
Flushing the rest of the conceived cells or whatever it was you were talking about.
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Fairness in justice? ARE YOU KIDDING? You just told me about how nature was unfair.
I'll tell you something about fairness in justice, if you don't want abortions. Forbid abortions, allow adoption, as it is, but make a law that will put every father of a child that is given to adoption into jail with forced hard labor for 1 year.
You have a very weird concept of fairness. Fairness must not make exceptions. I do not make special exceptions in abortion. It is the same as dragging a person in your house which is unable to live, and telling him/her "get out or I blow your head, I'm not required to give you food". Actually you ARE since you dragged the person in, it's not like he/she had a choice. YOU did though.
I'm talking about fairness in law, not about biological or human equality. That is, two identical outcomes must have exactly the same punishment, REGARDLESS of "how many children" are starving or whatever other reason.
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