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Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
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posted March 18, 2010 02:32 PM |
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@Elodin: Actually, Corribus's post with fancy colours fully aknowledges that you indeed did say "many" instead of "most" and still manages to show the point that your sentence was incapable of leaving a clear impression of what you're trying to say because it doesn't properly define your sets of people.
The colourful post does not have even one implication of "many" and "most" being synonymous. This is simply you not tackling the colourful post, but instead returning to an older post in wich there was a misunderstanding of what you had attempted to convey.
It is rather petty indeed, but when losing the war, the anti-Christians rejoice over the smallest of victories. Go get 'em tiger!
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Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 18, 2010 02:34 PM |
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Edited by bixie at 21:44, 22 Mar 2010.
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whatever you decide, Elodin, you're statement was really, really crass and disgusting. the way you protrayed those who were pro abortion, by even saying "Many" was to imply that the pro-choice moment has a secret underscore of harold shipman wannabes who will kill old people when they are not longer useful.
That is what peoples find so utterly objectionable, for you to make such a vile and baseless statement and state it as fact. if you had simply said "I think" at the start, we might have found that statement disgusting, but at least it's you're oppinion, and you're not trying to pass it off as fact.
Me? I'm pro-choice.
It's the woman's choice whether she has an abortion, carries on with the pregnancy, or carries on and puts the child up for adoption. it's her body, she has the right to abort a fetus who is insider her against her will. it's her choice, the fetus doesn't suffer if it's done early enough, and it's stops the birth of unwanted children.
life is precious, yes, but if that life is not valued, then it is hell.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 22, 2010 11:09 PM |
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Quote:
It's the woman's choice whether she has an abortion, carries on with the pregnancy, or carries on and puts the child up for adoption. it's her body, she has the right to abort a fetus who is insider her against her will. it's her choice, the fetus doesn't suffer if it's done early enough, and it's stops the birth of unwanted children.
life is precious, yes, but if that life is not valued, then it is hell.
So as long as you use a painless method to kill another human life it is ok.
What if a woman is on the way to have an abortion but she goes into labor, pulls over on the side of the road and gives birth to a premature baby. The baby looks like it will survive if given aid. Does the mother have a right to leave the baby in the ditch? Does the mother have a right to inject the baby with a leathal dose of pain killer medication?
Oh, and if she did not want the baby she should have kept her panties on. There is no mystery about who the baby wound up inside her. She may not want the baby but that does not give her the right to kill it. Let her give it to someon less selfish and more capable of love.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 22, 2010 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
What if a woman is on the way to have an abortion but she goes into labor, pulls over on the side of the road and gives birth to a premature baby. The baby looks like it will survive if given aid. Does the mother have a right to leave the baby in the ditch? Does the mother have a right to inject the baby with a leathal dose of pain killer medication?
Elodin, who do you know who would do that?! Honestly, Sometimes I think you're only purpose on this issue is to shock everyone with you're grotesque fantasy!
once the babies outside, then she doesn't have the right to kill it. As long as it's inside her, she's has the right to choose either to have an abortion the featus or to keep it until she's ready. If she gives birth to the baby and she doesn't want it, it can be put up for adoption!
Quote:
Oh, and if she did not want the baby she should have kept her panties on. There is no mystery about who the baby wound up inside her. She may not want the baby but that does not give her the right to kill it. Let her give it to someon less selfish and more capable of love.
Elodin, on this issue, you are the most heartless of basterds! you're wanting chastity belts and no sexual freedom! For goodness sake, man, what century do you live in!
she has every right to kill the featus, It's her body it's living in! If she want's it, fantastic, if she doesn't want it, then she's got every right to do so!
I have a feeling you just head women! That last bit just takes the cake, where you're basically saying, "any woman who has an abortion is a heartless witch!" I'm sorry, growing up, I've met six people who have had abortions, one of them is my own mother! I feel proud that my mother had the option of having an abortion, but she chose to keep me instead, and I will defend her right to her body, and for any women to have a right to her body!
And it's people like you who drive abortions underground, causing more fatalities a they do so. You are not pro-life, or pro-choice, You are pro-trauma!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 22, 2010 11:24 PM |
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Quote:
The baby looks like it will survive if given aid.
No sane person would support abortion at the point where the foetus can survive if given aid. That's why I only support legal abortion if before viability.
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Eccentric Opinion
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 22, 2010 11:26 PM |
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At that stage, it is no longer the choice of the mother anyway (the baby is outside her). Can the baby survive outside the womb, then it's the duty of the government, in my opinion, to provide for the baby. Like for every citizen.
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Living time backwards
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 22, 2010 11:27 PM |
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Quote:
Oh, and if she did not want the baby she should have kept her panties on.
And what if she had sex with her panties on, hmmm!?!? Where does that leave your precious logic???
( )
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 23, 2010 02:53 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 03:06, 23 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
Elodin, who do you know who would do that?! Honestly, Sometimes I think you're only purpose on this issue is to shock everyone with you're grotesque fantasy!
Actually, I recall some years back that a baby was found in a dumpster that I passed by every day while jogging. Thankfully he was still alive. They did catch the mother who did it, by the way. I don't recall what they did to her.
If you don't value human life in the womb, there is no reason to value it out of the womb.
Quote:
once the babies outside, then she doesn't have the right to kill it. As long as it's inside her, she's has the right to choose either to have an abortion the featus or to keep it until she's ready. If she gives birth to the baby and she doesn't want it, it can be put up for adoption!
So you are saying that had she arrived at the clinic a few minutes earlier and had the baby killed in her womb it would have been ok. But it is not ok for her to kill the baby at the same time that it would have been aborted if she had not been running a few minutes late.
What is it that makes it ok to kill the baby at 7:00 inside the womb but not ok to kill the baby at 7:05 if it is born premature while waiting for the abortion doctor to arrive?
Leaving babies who survive abortion to die
Baby almost aborted but mother left clinic and went into labor and delivered
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Oh, and if she did not want the baby she should have kept her panties on.
And what if she had sex with her panties on, hmmm!?!? Where does that leave your precious logic???
()
My pardons. I thought in saying that it is no mystery how the baby wound up inside her that everyone would know that I was speaking of sex. Evidently not. 
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Revelation
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 23, 2010 09:45 AM |
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Quote:
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Elodin, who do you know who would do that?! Honestly, Sometimes I think you're only purpose on this issue is to shock everyone with you're grotesque fantasy!
Actually, I recall some years back that a baby was found in a dumpster that I passed by every day while jogging. Thankfully he was still alive. They did catch the mother who did it, by the way. I don't recall what they did to her.
If you don't value human life in the womb, there is no reason to value it out of the womb.
why do I find that story hard to believe?
you know what F**k it, you want me to say that I'm some kind of monster, don't you Elodin. Alright, I am a baby eating cannibalistic heathen whose bisexual with tenacles growning out of his back and laser beam eyes!
and actually, there is a reason to value life out of the womb. That's when it starts to think, and to feel. thats when it becomes semi dependent, rather than feeding off the mother for oxygen, nutrition and so on.
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once the babies outside, then she doesn't have the right to kill it. As long as it's inside her, she's has the right to choose either to have an abortion the featus or to keep it until she's ready. If she gives birth to the baby and she doesn't want it, it can be put up for adoption!
So you are saying that had she arrived at the clinic a few minutes earlier and had the baby killed in her womb it would have been ok. But it is not ok for her to kill the baby at the same time that it would have been aborted if she had not been running a few minutes late.
What is it that makes it ok to kill the baby at 7:00 inside the womb but not ok to kill the baby at 7:05 if it is born premature while waiting for the abortion doctor to arrive?
Yep.
I know the worlds a complicated place Elodin, You'd better get used to it.
Also, why the hell would she leave it so late. Any sensible person (I.E, a person with at least one brain cell) wouldn't wait until so late to have an abortion. the proposition you proposed was a one off and the person who did it was incredibly stupid.
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Quote:
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Oh, and if she did not want the baby she should have kept her panties on.
And what if she had sex with her panties on, hmmm!?!? Where does that leave your precious logic???
()
My pardons. I thought in saying that it is no mystery how the baby wound up inside her that everyone would know that I was speaking of sex. Evidently not.
you're promoting we step back to the 1800's for our womens rights, Eh, Elodin?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted March 25, 2010 11:19 PM |
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Quote:
why do I find that story hard to believe?
I don't know. If you used google and type in "baby found in dumpster" you can find such instances.
You did not answer my question. What is it that makes it ok to kill the baby at 7:00 inside the womb but not ok to kill the baby at 7:05 if it is born premature while waiting for the abortion doctor to arrive?
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you're promoting we step back to the 1800's for our womens rights, Eh, Elodin?
No, I proposing that mothers don't have a right to kill their babies.
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Revelation
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted March 26, 2010 01:44 AM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 01:47, 26 Mar 2010.
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Quote:
Quote:
why do I find that story hard to believe?
I don't know. If you used google and type in "baby found in dumpster" you can find such instances.
You did not answer my question. What is it that makes it ok to kill the baby at 7:00 inside the womb but not ok to kill the baby at 7:05 if it is born premature while waiting for the abortion doctor to arrive?
It's not. IMHO as a woman abortion is only for early on, or if the risks of the mother dying are too high (thus killing both baby and mother) or if the mother was brutally defiled and made pregnant.
Quote:
you're promoting we step back to the 1800's for our womens rights, Eh, Elodin?
No, I proposing that mothers don't have a right to kill their babies.
I agree with babies, but early term pre-brain, pre-heart fetus are not people yet. I've never had an abortion and probaby never would. But I believe we should have the right to cleanse our temples, especially in cases where the pregnancy was forced.
If the government kidnapped you and made you pregnant like the movie junior would you keep it? What if it was with 2 men's sperm genetically modified so one acts like an egg?
The above italicized portion is only out of morbid curiousity.
But yes, there are limits. If the baby is at a point where it can think, has a heartbeat and can feel pain it's usually to late.
At least that's how I feel.
Also, I've known a few people bounced around the foster care/orphanage systems of North America. A great deal of them were abused, some are even hit on or worse by their foster parents. Most of them actually wish they were aborted. Which means we need better controls... which also means fewer kids get adopted since fewer parents are found eligible... which means a tax hike to look after all these kids that nobody can adopt =(
Unless they allow child labour again... then I suppose America would be competitive with China again.
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 26, 2010 10:20 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
why do I find that story hard to believe?
I don't know. If you used google and type in "baby found in dumpster" you can find such instances.
You did not answer my question. What is it that makes it ok to kill the baby at 7:00 inside the womb but not ok to kill the baby at 7:05 if it is born premature while waiting for the abortion doctor to arrive?
Simple, it's out, it's seperate from the mother. it is surviving on its own and not totally dependent of the mother.
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you're promoting we step back to the 1800's for our womens rights, Eh, Elodin?
No, I proposing that mothers don't have a right to kill their babies.
and I'm proposing that ability not to become pregnant the moment you have sex, and the right to choose whether to have a child or not, is the single greatest step in womens rights since the suffregettes movement in 1910's.
and you're wanting to take it away.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 26, 2010 11:37 AM |
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Quote:
it's seperate, suffregettes, you're wanting
Bixie, dude... Are you sure you're British?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 26, 2010 12:06 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
it's seperate, suffregettes, you're wanting
Bixie, dude... Are you sure you're British?
pip pip, tally-ho, watwat!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted March 26, 2010 12:54 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 12:55, 26 Mar 2010.
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*suspicious glance*
*relieved nod*
Looks legit.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted March 26, 2010 01:16 PM |
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So Elodin, what's your opinion on contraceptive pills?
Anti-aborts really should condemn them.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted March 26, 2010 02:26 PM |
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And you have your answer. Why Doomforge WHY spawn another 3 pages of zealous debating?
Oh and Shyranis thanks for the input. While I don't really have the patience to read the wast majority of posts in here (simply because they're repeating themselves) I always find your posts very interesting. Not simply because you're a woman (but considering the fact that it gives you a somewhat different viewpoint of things I'd lie if I said it didn't matter) but your thoughts on the matter are refreshing in their own way. I just hope you don't get too discouraged by the atmosphere here (mind you I'm not encouraging to stay in the OSM either why aren't you in the Tavern anymore ?).
This is not a particularily new discussion and ever since it started I believe that little new has been added, if you don't mind me saying so. That's not saying that the participants aren't good at arguing I'm just saying that the sane arguments get thrown arround with people rigorously holding on to their positions. Why not give it a rest?
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 26, 2010 02:31 PM |
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Don't you find it hilarious that he uses this:
Quote:
Actually, I recall some years back that a baby was found in a dumpster that I passed by every day while jogging. Thankfully he was still alive. They did catch the mother who did it, by the way. I don't recall what they did to her.
As an argument against abortion?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted March 26, 2010 06:18 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 18:21, 26 Mar 2010.
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Doomforge asked:
Quote:
So Elodin, what's your opinion on contraceptive pills?
Anti-aborts really should condemn them.
I'm actually interested in an answer to this as well; "contraception" does pose problems for pro-lifers. Although I'm fairly certain my reasoning is quite different from Doomforge's, which, if I remember his reasoning correctly, is completely untenable. (No offense, DF  )
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted March 26, 2010 08:42 PM |
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Contraception by definition is the prevention of fertilization. It has the same basic effect as abstinence. If someone is against oral contraception they must also be against abstinence. Therefore we should all refrain from abstinence and have sex as often as possible.
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This thread is pages long: 
