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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 08, 2013 09:36 PM |
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Quote:
All of these people would have been not among us if their parents never met. According to some folks, it's perfectly moral if their parents hadn't met and conceived them.
Uh, there is nothing immoral about not meeting someone. There is something immoral about killing a baby because the father is a rapist.
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Revelation
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 08, 2013 10:16 PM |
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Edited by artu at 22:24, 08 Jul 2013.
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Again, you are the one defining it like that but we've already been through that. The point is, displaying grown up people as possible abortion "victims" is nothing but a cheap emotional trick and flawed logic and same can be applied to anybody assuming their parents had never met:
- Imagine he/ she wasnt going to be standing here.
If abortion is not murder, and according to people objecting to you it definitely isnt, people that would have been aborted walking around and smiling is totally irrelevant. It's like a pro-choice person displaying the picture of a serial killer to you, saying if he had been aborted he wasnt going to be a serial killer. The "alternative futures" can not be the basis of any argument.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 10, 2013 10:16 AM |
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Quote:
Again, you are the one defining it like that but we've already been through that. The point is, displaying grown up people as possible abortion "victims" is nothing but a cheap emotional trick and flawed logic and same can be applied to anybody assuming their parents had never met:
- Imagine he/ she wasnt going to be standing here.
No, those are real people who were fathered by a rapist. Pro-abortionists would be fine with them having been murdered in the womb. And don't forget, I also posted some survivors of actual abortion attempts.
Texas has placed more restrictions on abortions.  A number of states are placing more restrictions on abortion. Abortions past 20 weeks won't be allowed and there are more stringent medical requirements for abortion facilities.
Planned Parenthood says all but 6 of the 42 baby-murder facilities will have to be shut down. I hope that is so.
Clicky
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Revelation
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted July 10, 2013 10:47 AM |
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You either didn't get my point or deliberately ignore it.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted July 10, 2013 12:39 PM |
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I will say it again, to me, abortion is not right, but it's entirely up to the mother, it's her body.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2013 05:14 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 17:14, 10 Jul 2013.
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I'm so happy you say that. The least we can do for our liberty is to keep the state away from over our very own bodies.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 10, 2013 05:22 PM |
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Quote:
I'm so happy you say that. The least we can do for our liberty is to keep the state away from over our very own bodies.
So, if I have an absolute right to control my own body that means I have a right to choke people to death with my hands that I have a right to control.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted July 10, 2013 05:39 PM |
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If they are in your womb, stomach or any other part of your independent body, you didn't want them there and they can't live outside your body (and can't be transfered to any other body which would like them) - yes, you can do that, because they're part of your body.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2013 05:40 PM |
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Of course: IF someone forces his neck into your hands and holds them tight, you can squeeze.
Shouldn't we stop generalizing here?
Being pregnant is a pretty unique condition, right?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2013 06:31 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 01:27, 12 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
So, if I have an absolute right to control my own body that means I have a right to choke people to death with my hands that I have a right to control.
No, you don't have a right to forcefully damage other peoples' bodies.
self-ownership =/= actions towards another
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 10, 2013 06:38 PM |
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just figured i'd point out, that a fetus could be considered a parasite.
so, if:
fetus = parasite,
and subsequently,
parasite = (i'll let you all fill in the blank),
then,
why shouldn't a human being be able to remove it?
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 11, 2013 11:54 PM |
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So, only women have the right to kill innocents with their bodies....
Illinois now can enforce their law about parental notification when a minor is trying to have an abortion, after decades of fighting in the courts. Why can a minor even have an abortion without parental consent when it is illegal for them to buy a beer or package of cigarettes?
Clicky
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) — The Illinois Supreme Court ended a lengthy and emotionally charged legal appeal over an abortion notification law Thursday, clearing the way for the state to begin enforcing a 1995 measure that requires doctors to notify a girl's parents 48 hours before the procedure.
The court ruled unanimously to uphold a circuit court's earlier dismissal of a challenge to the law that was filed by a Granite City women's health clinic and a doctor at the University of Illinois at Chicago.
After court battles that lasted nearly two decades, Illinois now joins 38 other states in requiring some level of parental notification. The law goes into effect in 35 days unless it's appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which has found such laws to be constitutional elsewhere.
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Revelation
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 12, 2013 12:06 AM |
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Quote:
just figured i'd point out, that a fetus could be considered a parasite.
so, if:
fetus = parasite,
and subsequently,
parasite = (i'll let you all fill in the blank),
then,
why shouldn't a human being be able to remove it?
A fetus is a distinct human organism according to embryology. All humans once lived in the womb of their mother until they matured enough to live outside the womb. Then they live in the protective "nest" of a family until they are mature enough to face the world on their own. Then when go out to face on the world many still rely on support from society, friends, neighbors, and charities.
If the mother is allowed to murder the innocent child merely because the child temporarily needs her support the same principle should be applied to society. Children regardless of age should be allowed to be murdered by the parents if the kids live at home. If the husband is the sole bread winner I guess under the "parasite principle" the husband should be allowed to murder the wife. The "parasite principle" would also imply society has a right to murder the elderly, disabled, the chronically sick, and anyone else who does not have 100% independence of others.
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Revelation
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 12, 2013 12:54 AM |
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i don't think that argument works, elodin. a kid living at home with their parents provide something the parents can use: love. the parents feel that by providing for their children, they are good people. the difference with an unborn is that they are more of a burden than a blessing, for both the pre-mother and pre-father. you've got the pre-mother gaining weight, having wild moods swings, and the pre-father has to put up with that from a woman who might have once been considered "sane". there would be stress on both of them.
not to say there wouldn't be stress when the kid is born, but at least they could have something to hold, to smile at, and hopefully the kid would smile back.
there is a difference. unborns are something more akin to parasites, is all i'm saying.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted July 12, 2013 01:11 AM |
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Edited by Hobbit at 01:14, 12 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
So, only women have the right to kill innocents with their bodies....
If you had some organism in your body you don't want which can't live without you, then you would also have a right to kill it no matter what it is.
Huh, seems like Occam's razor works very well.
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 12, 2013 08:25 AM |
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So the Catholic Ireland finally allows abortion in all cases where the life of the mother is in danger - suicide INcluded.
High time because their Supreme Court made that decision already 20 years ago, but the government simply didn't change the law, until they got a warning from the EU in 2010.
The Vatikan is of course aghast. Yeah, well.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 11:46 AM |
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*bump*
for obvious reasons.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 12, 2015 11:51 AM |
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Not that it matters much to you in the West and North, but in here it was the Communist Party that made abortion illegal, because they wanted work force. And no such thing as recognised homosexual or Gypsy minority either.
In fact, Communism in here was more nationalist than Monarchy, and definitely more nationalist than Democracy. There was also that little thing about no freedom of speech, prisons, and tortures... the National Socialist Germans weren't the only ones fond of those. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 12, 2015 01:00 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:02, 12 Dec 2015.
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dear god, these two were gems:
fred79 said:
just figured i'd point out, that a fetus could be considered a parasite.
so, if:
fetus = parasite,
and subsequently,
parasite = (i'll let you all fill in the blank),
then,
why shouldn't a human being be able to remove it?
fred79 said:
i don't think that argument works, elodin. a kid living at home with their parents provide something the parents can use: love. the parents feel that by providing for their children, they are good people. the difference with an unborn is that they are more of a burden than a blessing, for both the pre-mother and pre-father. you've got the pre-mother gaining weight, having wild moods swings, and the pre-father has to put up with that from a woman who might have once been considered "sane". there would be stress on both of them.
not to say there wouldn't be stress when the kid is born, but at least they could have something to hold, to smile at, and hopefully the kid would smile back.
there is a difference. unborns are something more akin to parasites, is all i'm saying.
lol, that's quality snow, right there. 
i think i was a better poster back then, than now. must be killing too many brain cells with my nose in a computer all day. 
...i've also noticed that i keep typing words wrong. wtf is wrong with me? do i have a snowing tumor, or something? 
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 12, 2015 01:47 PM |
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Nah you just ran dry. Same happened to me. I remember doomforge complained about it happening to him some years ago as well..
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This thread is pages long: 
