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| Thread: Greatest War Empires, Heroes, and Strategies |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TheBlackDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
Dungeon Defender/ Dragon Lord
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posted July 21, 2001 03:38 PM |
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Like your ideas but i claimed that Avatar so pick a new one thats mine
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RagingTitan
Adventuring Hero
Titan Ruler Of The Towers
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posted July 21, 2001 03:44 PM |
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i agree pick a new avatar !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Death
Anyway to be up to history a little i also liked Ceasar in their great battles. Joan Of Arc thats pure amazement and history but Ghengis Khan is my favorite be cause they started with nothing and built a whole new Empire
Anybody ever played Kessen?
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thunderknight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2001 06:10 PM |
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Great Chinese War Leaders
Hi, all,
I like war.  ......
Well, I know little about western, but I could share a little bit about great Chinese strategist/general/leader with u.
My favorite goes to Kun Ming (Zhuga Liang) in the East Han Dynasty. Any CHN war-game player/ war lovers should have heard about him. He got a lot of great tactics. If you are interested in his story, go read the book ¡§ Romance of Three Kingdom¡¨. It is based on the true history. As I can recall, he never got defeated in any battle (oh maybe only once, maybe¡K.) and can even scare the **** out his opponent after his death.
My second favorite is Sun Tse. Many ppl know that he is a great tactician. But do u know that he also made the best use of hit-and-run tactic !!!! to defeat another kingdom with much superior army and economy.
I guess Temujin/Ghengis is the most famous one in the western countries coz this man nearly conquer most part of Europe during his time. Ichon had mentioned a lot about this man and I agree with most of what he said. Just a little addition:
1). Composite bow was invented, maybe I should say ¡§improved" to be more accurate, by Kun Ming. At his time, this weapon is called ¡§Lian Nu¡¨ which means ¡§bow that can fire continuously¡¨, something like machine-guns nowadays.
2). Temujin/Ghengis was a born genius. He didn¡¦t received much education and just learn his battle tactic by battles¡K¡K
3). Ya, Temujin/Ghengis did defeat the Chinese at that time (South Sung Dynasty). Apart from great tactic of Mongol, the suck South Sung government and especially the suck South Sung emporer also ¡§contribute¡¨ to victory of Mongol. I am always curious what would happen if Temujin/Ghengis was facing Sun Tse or Kun Ming instead of those ****ing stupid South Sung generals during his time.....
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Death
Known Hero
LEGEND OF HELL
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posted July 21, 2001 06:16 PM |
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GRRRRRR
Hey BLACKY OK if you show me one what is good, cool and looks like my name!!!!!! 
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted July 21, 2001 08:12 PM |
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DEATH, you should go with Sandro
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2001 08:17 PM |
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Id have to go for Frederick Barbarossa i mean you have to hand it to the guy single handedly ruling the Holy Roman empire beating the pope and joining the third crusade to free Jerusalem from Saladin. (ok ok his empire might of crumbled after he drowned getting some water but is that really important? Not drowning while washing is harder than it looks! )
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Death
Known Hero
LEGEND OF HELL
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posted July 21, 2001 09:36 PM |
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oh
Thanks Ozzy but this ERDAMON I like more!!!
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted July 22, 2001 02:19 AM |
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The one thing that always amazes me is Joan of Arc. How she got a command when women were nothing at all in those times is beyond me. I think the movies they just made out there about her give her no justice. Well, very little.
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-LadyLily
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TheBlackDragon
Promising
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Dungeon Defender/ Dragon Lord
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posted July 22, 2001 04:38 AM |
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Can somebody explain about Saldin i mean i played the campaign in Age Of Empires but can somebody tell me what happen? Oh yeah Kubli Khan was okay but not as famous as Ghengis
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GoldenDragon
Adventuring Hero
Dragon Bro #2
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posted July 22, 2001 04:47 AM |
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El Cid was a good leader to
William Wallace was great to does anybody know about The Vikings greatest Leader?
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Dragon Brother
No Other
- Tyler Jackson
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RagingTitan
Adventuring Hero
Titan Ruler Of The Towers
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posted July 22, 2001 04:50 AM |
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Another Question what do u thinks that mose impactive weapon
One i think is the
Composite Bow and Long Bow a real advance for archers
I also like Battle Axes and those long Viking swords i forget what their called
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TheBlackDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
Dungeon Defender/ Dragon Lord
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posted July 22, 2001 04:58 AM |
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Where did some of the units from Age Of Kings expansion come from Aztecs are okay but i think that El Cid was okay but i still like Ghengis and Atilla i think that sheilds help alot the Roman Turtle sheild thing help alot with enemy archers
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted July 22, 2001 05:41 AM |
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Empire
Zhuga Liang is a name I have heard, I wish I knew more about his campaigns- it's hard to learn about some Chinese generals bescause European history is more divided into epochs with a few great empires and famous generals in that time who made such an impact as to have their names recorded. China is also divided into epochs, but it's actually more difficult to pick one general, the records were so well kept that many generals are semi-famous, and sometimes you don't know if they are famous for political reasons or because of military genius. I'm also curious about what would happen if Ghengis faced Sun Tse or someone worthy. It would be interesting to see the results. I think Mongols still the better army, but the Chinese were so much more numerous. The times when China was most effective they went on the offensive. The problem is with an agraian economy they couldn't keep a large standing army patrolling inner mongolia for years. The Mongols were practically impossible to beat in the field at that time, but China is full of walled cities and small standing armies everywhere. The Mongols usually ignored cities and swept around them to capture the countryside and starve out the city prior to China campaigns. The problem they found there was there simply weren't enough Mongols to contolr even half of China countryside- and the walled cities very often on rivers could get food. It wasn't until they stormed a few cities and some cities surrendered that they got Chinese engineers and then could go and capture cities quickly enough that their smaller numbers were still effective. Thereafter Chinese engineers and some other types(surgeons, traders/spies, signals intel) traveled with the Mongol armies. That is how Ghengis overran central asia which was filled with walled cities so quickly. Also ruthlessness, after a few cities didnt' surrender the Mongols killed about 400,000 people in the next two cities that didn't surrender, after that usually they just showed up outside the gates and the city was theirs.
Joan of Arc- the reason I don't consider her a strategically great leader is she was more of a political force. Her attacks as leader were marked more by ferocity and surprise after so long of French enfeeblement that she suceeded, when she faced organized resistance finally she failed and was captured fleeing. Sure maybe she would have won with the reinforcements the Dauphin promised, but why she needed those extra men is she killed almost all hers already.
Saladin; totally underestimed in many military histories I think. The crusaders plate mail at the time was superior to almost anything except composite bows which Saladin had never heard of. Also, the resistance against the crusaders was not only fractured, but sometimes outright friendly to them. Before the crusaders even arrived on the scene there were civil wars all over syria and palestine. So, Saladin had to figure out a way to beat an army reinforced from a country he couldn't attack, and unify the arab resistance., plus defeat at the time superior military technology. It's amazing the success he had- first he realized he couldn't fight the crusaders on their ground most often so he began luring them out into the desert or into unfriendly terrain. He also refined hit&run tactics of striking a column of crusaders and killing or scattering their pack horses and destriers, then retreating. All this time he was also gathering support politically and discovering new technology. Now imagine a war where the fertile land and seaports are contolled by an enemy who recieves a new army everytime one is destroyed. It was very hard for Saladin to siege a crusader town- knights in armor manning the walls impervius to the weak bows of the arabs and virtually impregnable against scimtars and polearms. Yet he still managed to puch back the crusaders over a continous war running years. Just before Barborossa appeared on the scene there was fresh disagreements politically in the fractured arab states and so Saladin was dealing with that and having to figure out how to defeat a fresh crusade. Anyway, much more detail to be explained here, but with the resources and political troubles among his soldiers it's amazing Saladin did what he did. He was further hampered by being rather honest and not nearly as ruthless as crusaders who thought of arabs as the nearest thing to demons and often lied about their parole only to return and fight.
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pluvious
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 22, 2001 09:15 AM |
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Very impressive Ichon. I study history myself...but I can't just come up with all that info off the top of my head.
Ichon, you did say that no empire lasted as long as the Romans, but the egyptians were around for 3,000+ years. I believe you could say the persians did also, but maybe not classified as an "empire".
The Franks, Normans, and Saxons are sometimes overlooked as to their importance in the history of europe. And names like Charles the Great and William the Conqueror are worth remembering.
Other warrior cultures of note (as many have mentioned) are the vikings (raiders and plunderers), japanese (independent small island with chinese influence), chinese (dynasties...provinces fighting each other), Mongols (largest empire ever), huns (the romans lived in fear of them as these horsemen migrated westward), the persians (largest empire before mongols), the romans (greatest civilization before modern era), the greeks (sparta and athens for a time...culture... and under alexander controlled huge empire), visigoths/ostrigoths/Franks/Normans/Saxons...and others (the peoples that settled europe and deteremined the borders after years of conflict).
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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-
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Defreni
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 22, 2001 04:43 PM |
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Well Pluvious, its hard to count Egypt as a standing empire for 3000 years, as there where different epochs, and not a uniform reign for all those years.
The Roman empire on the other hand was political unified for over 1000 years, and if count the East roman empire or Byzans as a direct descendant of that empire, u have over 2000 years as a standing empire.
The reason for me not wanting to count ancient Egypt as an empire that lasted 3000 years, is the simple reason that China under that definition will have over 4000 years as a standing empire, pretty neat eh?
As for great generals 2 springs to my mind immediatly, somebody did mention Napoleon, but what he did at Austerlitz is simply amazing. To have different corps from all over France force march to meet the combined armies of Austria and Russia, before Prussia decided to interfere, and then telling his troops exactly what the strategi was to defeat those armies, so the Austrian high command had detailed knowledge of the strategy Napoleon would use, and then just crushing them was ingenous.
My other favourite was one Frank allready mentioned. Von Manstein. To bad he was on the wrong side in that war. His strategy crumbled France in less than 2 weeks during ww2, and that was not even his greatest accomplishment.
That was the rear fighting he did with Army group South during the winter and spring 1943, he not only halted the Russian advance, he actually went on the offensive.
Luckily for us all Hitler would excedengly overrule his decisions, if he hadnt the outcome of ww2 wouldnt have been so obvious.
Defreni
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TheBlackDragon
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posted July 22, 2001 04:50 PM |
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Raging Titan
I think tatics is all war because there are many battle formations with pros and con's
War Elephants: Noise is their con everytime they would run and trample own enemys
Archers: Close combat but long distance long bowman what can u say
Their are many others to list
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pluvious
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 22, 2001 07:33 PM |
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Hmmm...Defreni...the reason you would count Egypt and not China is that Egypt wasn't fighting against itself. Once Narmer united north and south pharoahs reigned uninterrupted for over 3000 years. That's pretty much the definition of empire I would think.
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...Pluvious...
-The Storm Before the Calm-
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RagingTitan
Adventuring Hero
Titan Ruler Of The Towers
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posted July 23, 2001 03:03 AM |
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yeah thats great but i mean weapon advancements had a lot to do with it 2 i mean of course longs bows are better than regular
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Ichon
Responsible
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posted July 23, 2001 09:52 AM |
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Egypt
Well, the reason I don't count Egypt for the entire duration of pharoah rule is that while pharoah's were generally in charge, there were many different cultures and peoples who swept through and became pharoahs. Egypt's culture conqueored them all within a few generations, but what Rome had that no other civilization did for so long was uninterrupted transfer of authority through the same general system. Civil wars were fought sure, but no outside enemies ruled until the very end. Same as China- diferent dynasties, and the same culture also, but some very chaotic periods scattered throughout. I wouldn't consider Rome an Empire until after 2nd Punic war, but from then until Rome was sacked, and then beyond that as Justinian/Constantine moved the capitol to Constantinople and shortly there after the western half of the empire fell was a Roman empire.
The only difference I am suggesting is between Empire versus a civilization. Egyptian civilization and Chinese probably lasted longer than Roman strictly intrepreted, but; look at how many successor empires there were to Rome. It was that mantle of authority they wanted. Holy Roman Empire of Charlamagne to even in the 20 century Hitler's Third Reich.
I agree, Guderian and Von Manstein were possibly the most brilliant generals of this age. Rommel was very good, but never deployed in a theatre large enough to show his talents. The Russian invasion was the largest land war ever undertaken with possibly greater total causualties than any other war in history. If Hitler hadn't become convinced he was a military genius by the early success(his plan was actually Guderian and some other general's plan, Hitler only gave permission for it to go ahead)The german general staff was the best gathering of military minds ever I think. The Germans almost won- and that was with the allies knowing almost every major offensive's location and resources before it even began. Allied intelligence and Hitler's seizing control are probably only reasons we peresevered. Manstein almost crushed the russian front 3 different occasions, but had his armeis diverted by Hitler without consultation each time. Also, the germans might have been able to win the war in the first year of the invasion if Hitler hadn't ordered the tanks to stop on the edge of Moscow- giving an entire winter for the Russians to move their factories east and reorganize and shift units from siberia. Reminiscent of Hitler letting the British escape Dunkirk which was probably the only reason the greatest disaster in British military history didn't become Britains greatest catasrophe in history. Operation Sea Lion(invasion of Britain) would have certainly succeeded otherwise, and even with that, only Goring and Hitler's inept use of the Luftwaffe gave the battle in the air to Britain and let the British empire survive.
Speaking of largest Empire's the Mongol's had the greatest Empire in my mind, but the British actually had the largest counting strictly by acreage.
As for leaders, William isn't deserving to be amongst them I think- he barely won even though the Britons had already fought the Danish then force marched south to fight his army.
Napolean- yes, he totally changed his entire age. Not only in military terms, but politically as well. Even the lands outside of Europe felt the repercussins. The United States grew by 2/3's with Lousiana Purchase- Mexico fought off Spanish rule for good, France's African territories were largely striped away, and Russia was drawn away from expanding east decades earlier than it resultingly did. Militarily Napolean only lost two battles outright, and had perhaps three pyrric victories, but meanwhile marched through Europe for decades beating every Empire's armies numerous times. His largest mistakes; invading Russia, and letting Prussia live.
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RagingTitan
Adventuring Hero
Titan Ruler Of The Towers
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posted July 23, 2001 04:24 PM |
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Intresting
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