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| Thread: The work of an Extremist or the Truth? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT» |
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privatehudson
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posted June 18, 2004 03:45 PM |
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The work of an Extremist or the Truth?
I would like to direct you to the works of a certain Jack T Chick, a rather.... outlandish christian cartoonist.
http://www.chick.com/
I came across the site after reading a "rant" by the PVP cartoonist about the topic. Many of Chick's works are full of... well they're full of innacuracies and often total rubbish. I direct you to one of his on D&D.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp
Or one on Gay relationships.
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1052/1052_01.asp
And finally on Halloween
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0058/0058_01.asp
Of course these are merely the worst examples I can find, much of his works is merely repeating the basic "you're a sinner and you're only hope is to be saved by Jesus" line which IMO is fine. What interests me is just how much of this the christians here would agree with or support. I suspect given the extreme nature very little of the above 3, but I wondered anyway 
IMO, as Kurtz (PVP cartoonist) said eventually, Jesus' came with a message of love and compassion, not hatred and ignorance about others like Chick gives out. I'm not saying that all christians are like Chick, but I am interested to hear christian views on his works and what relevance they have.
Because if this dude's right, I worship and am posessed by devils 
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Asmodean
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Heroine at the weekend.
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posted June 18, 2004 03:52 PM |
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[sarcasm] Yeah, teach them damn homos they're going to hell!  [/sarcasm]
Thanx PH, that cheered me up. I'll look at the rest later  
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Lord_Woock
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posted June 18, 2004 04:04 PM |
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My mind shut down halfway through the one about D&D 
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Consis
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posted June 18, 2004 04:05 PM |
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I Can't...
And that's what we call an extremist. Christians have them too, not only islamic. What should I say....nothing to say. Comics like this are really very enraging to me. You can't stop these kinds of publications and that's fine. But if I catch someone behaving like any of those in real life then I am the first to let them have a piece of my mind.
As for the D&D piece, I play D&D, I love it, and I still read the bible. If a person doesn't know the difference between game and reality then they are more than likely to have problems elsewhere in life too. An obscure sense of reality contributes to poor choices in real life, and in turn, a harsh life of cruel consequences.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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privatehudson
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posted June 18, 2004 04:06 PM |
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Hey this is for serious discussion damnit!
So thanks consis for restoring the topic 
And even as an agnostic I am fully aware that the cartoons are the extreme of the religion, I wanted to see reactions to it though and see if Christians are as opposed to it as others
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Lich
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 18, 2004 04:49 PM |
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That is so LOW ! What next, we will blame D&D players and accuse them for being satanists ? We will burn them at stake ??? No wonder there are so many angry and dumb people in this world... And this garbage like that only encuorages them...
I stoped where the girl hung herself since I just my all sence'o'meters went off the scale...
I turned the one about the gays, the time I saw those devils on thier heads... YES ! SATAN IS ALIVE !!!! RUN !
And I couldn't force myself to start reading about Haloween...
Bah...
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Aquaman333
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of the seven seas
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posted June 18, 2004 05:27 PM |
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I'm am a Church-going Christian, but I don't agree with any of the three cartoons you provided links to. However, the man has an opinion that has every right to be expressed, and at least he's not blowing up abortion clinics...
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"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Svarog
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posted June 18, 2004 08:19 PM |
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LOL! I find those comics really hilarious!
Did you see the little imps around those gays? Incredibly stupid!
However, those people who write them are dead serious. And I don't think it's the work of 'extrimist'. In fact, who is an extremist? The one who follows all the rules and codes of his religion. And as much as we try to be diplomatic about that, the churhc is really supportive about all those things. So, I'm forced to conclude that following the ways of the church completely, is a form of extremism, and you can clearly see the results from those wicked minds.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Vadskye91
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Back again
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posted June 18, 2004 08:40 PM |
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I disagree Svarog. Actually, you can't do anything to extremes. If you love someone to the extreme, you might kill to get to them or if they die, then you would be completely depressed. Even being kind can go to extremes by not harming a murderer or a kidnapper. The writer of those comics is a deep extremist. I've never played D&D, but I don't have a problem with those playing it. Christianity is not "evil" any more than Islam is "evil". (Personally, I think Muslims are just mistaken.) Extremism is what caused the 9-11 bombings and those comics, not the religions behind it.
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Knowledge is power...
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Svarog
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posted June 18, 2004 09:04 PM |
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A simple logic labyrinth for you
Are you a good Christian?
Do you accept and hold true all of the Bible messages?
(Now, if you answered these two questions with yes, all of the bellow applies to you.)
Does the Bible tell you that being gay is a sin?
Yes.
Do you go to hell for the sins that you don't repent for?
Yes.
So according to the Bible and the church gays will go to hell.
Yes.
That comic was about gays that will go to hell.
Yes.
So you agree with what the comic says.
Yes.
So why the hell do you post here that it's extremism and should not be identified with the rest of Christianity?!
(I have no answer to this one.)
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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privatehudson
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posted June 18, 2004 09:57 PM |
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The comic series is about more than merely homosexuality though, it touches on both D&D and haloween. In the D&D one it shows a blatant ignorance of the game that most sensible christians would never follow. Further there are underlying important issues adressed in the homosexuality comic, namely that of the state intefering in religion in schools. The series repeatedly lambasts the US for denying schools the right to preach god's word for example, whereas what I suspect is that the author is annoyed because the US state won't preach christian beliefs above all others and agree that Muslims and Hindus (for example) are deluded. Also the method of dealing with homosexuality that underlies the comic is not common thought amongst all christians, the comic (and others in the series) basically accuses gay people of being on a "mission to convert us". The demons/devils that accompany gay people in the series of comics reinforces this. Homosexuality becomes associated with the devil and it's followers with the city god hated so much he rained fire down on it. So whilst I appreciate that the basic message the comic shows is in line with the religion, the underlying messages and the way to deal with things are not. On one hand the comic suggests loving them and showing them jesus' way, on the other it demonises them, not jesus' way at all.
Further reading of others in the series shows further lack of logic, for example the author(s) also believe the world is only 6000 years old and that the flood happened around 4000 years ago roughly, the only evidence for this they ever offer is "the bible says so". Indeed that's the only evidence they ever really offer for their moral stance. Even though IIRC the bible doesn't really offer a date for the age of the world (I'm told the 6000 year date was a church invention based on the Jesus-Adam theory of X generations multiplied by X years). The author also has an outlandish theory on the Catholic faith which basically accuses it (to be exact the Jesuits) of engineering the holocaust and trying to engineer another one in America. See below for this:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0054/0054_01.asp
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Aquaman333
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posted June 19, 2004 12:58 AM |
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Svarog, your assuming that every single Christian thinks exactly the same. If he thinks that, then when we all think that. But that's not how it works. We're not mindless drones. Have you ever heard of anti-literalists? We believe that the Bible is to be taken figuratively, not literally. Was Adam really Cain and Able's father? No. There's no was that agriculture could be invented in one generation. Therefore, I could still be a Christian and hold the Bible's teachings as truth, but still not conform to all of those other points you listed.
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IYY
Responsible
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REDACTED
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posted June 19, 2004 01:27 AM |
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
So I guess I'll laugh
Such opinions about homosexuality, Jews and D&D are more fit for the middle ages. Although I am a Jew, I know very well that very few christians share similar views. In fact, such bashing of innocents seems to go directly against what being a 'good christian' is all about.
Had this guy been popular enough to be parodied, I could see the words in his anti-D&D comic altered to bash a game like monopoly, just to show how idiotic the comic is.
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Asmodean
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posted June 19, 2004 02:04 AM |
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Sorry for the less than serious post up there PH, I'll try to redress the balance now.
While no doubt having an overview of the origins of halloween, and doing a nice little glossing over of the fact that, at the time, christianity hadn't arrived in the British Isles - what Mr Chick seems to be saying is that every child that takes part in a halloween celebration is fully aware of the druidic origin, later interpreted as non-christian (which I guess in Mr. Chick's book - means Satanic)
Now anyone with a brain can remember what halloween is like when you are a child. It was about dressing up in a cool costume and hassling your neighbours for sweets.
I'm afraid I've never sacrificed a cat on Satan's birthday - maybe we don't celebrate halloweeen right in Ireland.
I don't consider myself to be a christian, though I have a Catholic upbringing, and I can remember even at primary school, the parish priest dressing up for the school's halloween parade. Now if a priest can indulge in a little harmless play for the sake of local school children, isn't that a positive thing?
So how many HC members that consider themselves christians agree with Mr. Chick, and if so - why?
As for the D&D one. I've never played D&D, but I've played lots of fantasy computer games and read a lot of fantasy books. In fact, every member of this forum has played a fantasy computer game. (Otherwise why are you here?)
Now, I did join the Might and Magic Guild because 3DO gave you a membership when you bought H3 Complete, but I'm afraid it never led to meetings at my local Temple Of Diana because of it?
Did anyone else? Or did I miss something?
I'm now waiting for Mr. Chicks new comic strip blasting Star Wars/Trek, due to the fact that aliens can't exist because the Bible doesn't mention them.
I'll not touch the gay issue - too close to home. Read the Gay people thread if you want my opinions.
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Marelt_Ekiran
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posted June 19, 2004 02:38 AM |
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I, on the other hand, am I D&D player and I stumble on a part that I don't get. Mr. Chick seems to continiously be referring to the "rituals in the books". What rituals? I have read all core books and a lot of the supplements and I have never seen a single ritual described anywhere.
But overall, I like reading this guy's work. Half to enjoy the stupidity that some people can produce. Half as an easy practice in "Refuting for Beginners".
But if it turns out that all that he writes is true, then I can reply with the following: "Satanist and proud of it".
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Perception is everything.
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Celfious
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From earth
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posted June 19, 2004 03:27 AM |
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those rituals are only known by the dark carriers j/king
the gays can be gay, but no way should they be introduced to children as a normal family. They can be introduced but not formaly as homosexuals
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What are you up to
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Svarog
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posted June 19, 2004 03:57 AM |
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Quote:
Svarog, your assuming that every single Christian thinks exactly the same. If he thinks that, then when we all think that. But that's not how it works. We're not mindless drones. Have you ever heard of anti-literalists? We believe that the Bible is to be taken figuratively, not literally. Was Adam really Cain and Able's father? No. There's no was that agriculture could be invented in one generation. Therefore, I could still be a Christian and hold the Bible's teachings as truth, but still not conform to all of those other points you listed.
So, you would go for a selective interpretation of the Bible, is that what you're telling me?
That would mean you don't see the Bible as the Wrod of God, since if you did and believd in God, you wouldn't have questioned his motives and messages, right?
(And please tell me what is the "anti-litteral" interpretation of that passage from the comic about gays being abomination. And what's your position on those issues. Do you think gays will go to hell?)
However, most Christians acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God, but when it comes to all the nonesense it preaches, they say it's extremism.
Hypocrisy! That's the approach of the Middle Ages, and the reason for the Reformation. If you believe in the Bible as the word of God and if you believe in God, then you shouldn't question His messages, and especially the teachings about morale.
That's how the Church sees it, and if the Bible truly is the word of God, all you "no-thats-extremism" are openly against God's teachings. How about that?
Or, there's another more simple solution. The whole concept of Christian ethics is ruthless medieval oppression that should not have place in a society of freedom and tolerance.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
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posted June 19, 2004 04:15 AM |
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Grr...
Quote:
Mr. Chick seems to continiously be referring to the "rituals in the books". What rituals?
That would be the rolling of the dice, very satanic, very evil, and very cultist.
Quote:
But if it turns out that all that he writes is true, then I can reply with the following: "Satanist and proud of it".
Thus Ozzy Ozbourne was.....born.
I'm sure my sarcasm is thick enough to be visible, but in case it isn't, then you have my acknowledgment of it.
As for the D&D perception, I come from a place that truly believes in such extreme views. When I was growing up my mother would constantly tell me to never play the game because it taught you how to tell a lie. The problem with such extreme views being supported is that you'll see a great deal of stemming behaviors linked to such christian fanaticism. ie. banning of particular music bands from ever conducting a concert in the area, banning of particular radio talk shows, banning of particular hobby shops(certain comic book stores that sell affiliated paraphanalia), etc.
I despise it more so than many other things in life because I was raised under such beliefs. Instead of converting me to such nonsense, they have made me an outspoken opponent willing to do idealogical battle against it at any and every turn. In fact, I am so disgusted that my usual researched debate positions(as seen at HC) digress to utter enragement. In a word, I hate these *******.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Svarog
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posted June 19, 2004 04:57 AM |
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American Talibans
Consis, you are Mormon right?
I read an article about a week ago that spoke about some Mormon communities in USA (near Las Vegas) that lived in an extremely fanatic Christian way, much like the Talibans in Afghanistan. There are no TVs there, public schools don't function, kids go to church schools only, all the power is concentrated in the hands of the local priest. He rules with the dogmas the religious community teaches and is surrounded by supporters that are awarded for their loyalty... with wives from the village. It went on to say that every Mormon man has many wives that are assigned to him by the priest. Women on the other hand are not allowed to speak with other men and are kept in check with threats that the End of the World is soon to come and the rest of the BS. These remote Mormon communities were excommunicated by the Mormon Church due to a government intervention, but they are still left to function freely.
This is something the article said that some American journalists started writing about only recently.
What do you think about these claims? How do you relate your church to this? And the rest of you Americans, are you familiar with the existance of this kind of horrible places?
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted June 19, 2004 05:01 AM |
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Those people choose to live in such areas, so I really have no sympathy for them.
In relation to my church, I see no resemblance. It's a perfectly respectable establishment that discriminates in no way. Our Pastor is pretty ordinary; he's not particularly extreme, but at the same time he isn't too lax. I was aware that there were Mormon communities out in Utah/Nevada and those other mountain states, but I didn't know they were so bad.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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