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| Thread: H3 skill learning percentage |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Shenjairo
Known Hero
Simsalabim
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posted November 19, 2004 09:01 AM |
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Just have to list a tiny tiny pet peeve of mine.
Barbarian, ugh ugh. Likes to smash things, looks a bit like a viking and is primitive = Crag Hack
Singer, lalala, not into the smashing business at all = Craig "David" Hack
Otherwise, great post  Don't choose demoniacs that often based on dislike of both their town and their appearance. Will have to let some in sometime.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted November 19, 2004 09:13 AM |
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Quote:
Restarting the map gives the heroes a new selection, so it all seems to be calculated that second when you start up the map.
This happens with a lot of things in Homm. And hitting the restart button doesn't always change it. The first restart might change things. But if you keep restarting, it might begin to repeat itself. If you go back to the main menu and start the map from there, you won't get the repeats.
Like the tests I did with leveling up, I went to the main menu instead of hitting the restart button. This gave a better picture of what the odds really are.
These things are done with random numbers. A random number generator uses a "seed". If it uses the same seed, it will always come up with the same "random" number. So it must get the seed from somewhere so it's not the same each time. Often the seed comes from the computer's clock which is in milli-seconds, so it's constantly changing.
The way Homm acts, the seed seems to come from the game itself. Like maybe it looks at several things in the current game and creates a seed based on those parameters. If none of those things change, it will come up with the same seed.....and therefore with the same "random" number.
I remember a discussion about Month of the Plague. If you repeatedly load a saved game just before the Plague, you still keep getting the Plague. You can move heroes around or build new buildings, but no change. If you keep at it long enough, eventually you won't get plague. "Something" eventually made the seed change. But it's not known just what that "something" is.
I remember the campaign in either AB or SOD where the Hero was supposed to carry over from a previous campaign. You can carry over from game to game WITHIN a campaign, but not from one campaign to another.
The new campaign started with the heroes at level 20 (I think), but the skills were all randomly picked. This really ticked me off after going to the work of building my heroes the way I wanted. So I started doing a bunch of restarts to get a decent set of skills. Each restart would give me a different set of skills. But after a while I started noticing a repeating pattern. It seems like it repeated after maybe 8-10 restarts.
I started writing down all the skill sets to verify the repeating pattern. Yep, exact repeats.....not just the skills, but also the level of each skill. So I started keeping track of other things as well. With each set of skills, the primary skills would also be the same. The heroes in the tavern would be the same. Whether ot not level 2 or 3 buildings were built was the same. I built a guild and it had the same spells. Even the artifact on the ground was the same. The only thing I saw change was the creatures the tavern heroes had.
Going out to the main menu would "reset" things. A whole new set of skills, spells, etc would appear. But hitting restart, this new set would again start repeating.
When I first started playing HOMM, I thought the same as you, that these things were "pre-selected". That's only partly true. On a given map, there are hundreds of things in it. Some of those things are fixed with the map, and some change. Somehow the seed is generated using at least some of the things that do not change.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted September 03, 2005 03:50 PM |
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Revived.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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majaczek
Supreme Hero
Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted September 16, 2010 08:07 PM |
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Binabik, so let have the hope that VCMI changes some of that to more healthy solution, at least as an option
However backish to old h3 did you ever know that obstacles on battlefield aren't anything random? even aren't semirandom at anyc chance!
theres simple formula somewhere and obstacles on battlefield depends on field position on map (where you fight) and the terrain under (on what you fight), and maybe one little factor i didn't remember, however main point is whenever you play, however times you restart, on the same tile on the same map you will get always the same obstacles in the same places!
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 07:33 AM |
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In H3 many things are not random even if they seem so at first look. Yes, for placing obstacles the game uses a special algorithm (not just a formula) based on coordinates (something like this, see post 01.22)
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 09:07 AM |
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Maj, I'm not sure what you are asking. That post of mine was a long time ago. We've learned a lot about the game since then. (as you can see from the link Alex posted)
As far as how I knew that things weren't random, that's nothing new. We have known about that for a long time. I remember reading about that before I even joined here in 2003. I think as far back as 2002 or earlier people were guessing that random events might depend on map position. I don't think anyone knew HOW the map position affected things, but they guessed that position was somehow involved in it.
(I was only guessing how the following MIGHT work) The way I thought it might work was that the seed for a random number generator was calculated from the map itself (with some other things in the algorithm also). The random generator was always the same, and only the seed changed. If the seed is derived from the map itself, then you could always get the same seed from the same map.....unless something changed.
So you have two parts of the map. The part that never changes like mountains, town location etc. And the part that changes like hero position, town buildings, etc. If the hero position changes or you build a dwelling, or spend gold, can that change the seed for the random generator? My guess was that it did change it.
An example is month of plague. If you reload you will probably still get plague. If you change something small before ending turn you still get plague. But if you change something big, you might break the cycle and don't get plague. My guess was that by changing something big you changed the random seed because the seed comes from certain specific things on the map.
I think with all the new information we have now that my old theories are no longer valid. But it was fun thinking about it and guessing.
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