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Thats really gay Asmodean, you whine because were being honest & not yopur wonder netherland faiorytale Tavern that you want it to be.
WTF what were not allowed to be human.
Who are you to go alone & judge any thread like if your life surrounds in 100% goodness.

You went against your word dude so thats makes you no better then any other mods that I went down on.
You said you ask members, what was there any point.
I seen more vote to keep the thread in because we deserve to express & be honest.

So WTF was hearing the opinions for if you had your mind set anyways.
WHA I want to cry to Valiera because a thread is harsh & not like rainbow bright.

That is totally 100% unprofessional Asmodean.

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ahh well lets assmodean have his day in the sun,if it means that much to him lol. obviously just looking for a lame excuse to flex his/her flab

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Also I think since Asmodean likes opinions then i would like to see opinions on dif parts oif taverns that each mods can over take.
Seems to me Asmosean as what I been seeing before & today that he cant handle any type of friction even if it's not friction & just some words going around but respectedly.

I think that Asmodean should handle the stress free threads because he cant handle other types of threads he just tosses them unfairly after he runs to Valiery.

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*confused look* WTF?... Aculias... It probably makes sense to him... *shrugs*

On a serious note, I don't think Asmodean has any problem with friction, like I said before friction leads to flame wars. He is simply being proactive.

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1. This will not be a flame war.

2. The advice to move the thread to wastelands came from Pandora, I just was the one who actually moved it.

3. To my knowledge Val has not made a comment about this thread.

4. What word did I break? I thought it should be deleted, but I said I'd consult with another Mod before I took any action. I did.

5. I see this as a bit different from any normal friction we've seen before. This is not 2 individuals, or 'sides' flaming eachother. This was a kind of 'Kitten pissed me off anonymous' where everyone just HAD to put their two cents in.

6. And yes it is really gay, but so am I? What do you expect

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CoC Violation Noted

I wonder if Asmodean has read the rules. Let's see what they say about letting go of your viewpoint:

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Do you know and follow every rule outlined on this page? Can you let go of your own viewpoint and judge from a neutral perspective? Are you willing to give up your stars and ranks? Are you visiting Heroes Community almost every day for 30 minutes or more for the last six months? Are you willing to commit to making Heroes Community a better place? Can you be a good example to other Heroes Community members? If you've honestly answered 'yes' to every single question above and believe you are worthy to be a moderator, send Valeriy an E-Mail describing the contribution that you want to make to Heroes Community. Your e-mail will be posted in Mod Squad HQ and current moderators will decide whether you'll be the next Mod Squad member.

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It is my humble opinion that Asmodean violated the above highlighted portion of the rules that Valeriy wrote for members interested in being a forum Moderator. I don't know what the penalty is for violating Moderator rules is. As I read these guidelines set out by the forum administrator, I strongly believe there to be a clear violation.

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Well Concis, just what do you think personally about what I did, without highlighting passages from the CoC.
Let go of my own viewpoint?
I think I did.
I have been around long enough to know that Kitten rubbed people up the wrong way sometimes, maybe not the full history, but enough of it.
So maybe to them it looks like I'm defending her, I'm not.
Well I am, but just not her personally.
If there was a thread where everyone was sticking the boot into any member, I would step in and ask it to stop.
Do you think a thread slandering another member makes HC a better place? I certainly don't.
And whether you think that's a bad thing is your own call.

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No comment. I want to comment something on Asmodean's posts...

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That thread had real value in my opinion. This community is made up of real people with real personalities and real feelings that can be as fragile and delicate as newborn infants. The Heroes Community also has more character than I could possibly describe. That's because real people are here every day contributing real opinions and communicating real feelings. Without the backbone character of these people, Heroes Community would be a cold lifeless rock with absolutely no value what so ever. That's why I come here and visit. I come here to experience the kind of atmosphere the people of this forum create. It's really quite diverse, interesting, and offers a variety of colorful viewpoints.

In the thread in question, I personally tried to reach out to another member on a very delicate level. I was talking about learning about the intricate workings of the human heart and I also posted some additional information to RedSoxFan3's original post of the serenity prayer. The additional information I posted was my effort to try and encourage members reading it who had a history of alcohol abuse to seek help and never lose hope. How dare you declare that thread Wasteland material!

In real life, I am an ex-medical technician, surgical tech, physical therapy ass., I.C.U. nurse ass., and C.P.R. instructor. If there is someone I can help or encourage through the use of my experience and that thread, then I want to try. Everyone is saying Kittenangel 'this' or Kittenangel 'that'. I don't care what they are saying. What if she decided to open up to me and learn more about taking better care of her own body. Did you know she is a mother? Don't you think her kids need their mother in good health? I am outraged at this brazen lack of moderator self restraint!

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If that's all true, then why is this the first time I'm hearing it?
Maybe if you'd posted THAT in the thread I'd have thought twice about it, maybe cleaned up the thread and made an appeal to stop the sniping at kitten.
Plus, of course - you haven't actually addressed the issues I asked you to.
Do you think a thread where a lot of people slander a member makes HC a better place?
But faced with the info I had at the time, I think I'd still make the same call.
Plus if you're upset at it being moved then you can petition for it to be moved back - there's a thread especially for that in VW.

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I'd like to say first of all that it was my suggestion to move this thread to the wastelands.

I felt that deleting the thread was not the answer, and that the conversation should go on until it ran itself out of steam.

In the wastelands threads live until a) they reach 500 posts b) they have gone 1 week without a reply c) members request to have it moved back.

My thought was that after the discussion had burnt itself out - if members felt it was valuable to the community, I could then lock it and move it back. To me this seemed the most diplomatic solution rather than deleting the entire post.

Consis, I appreciate your opinions but right now I would ask you to step back a moment and reconsider. Asmodean did not violate any mod rules, in fact he only acted after hearing the opinions of the other moderators. I would love to hear more from you here, as this is what the whole thread is for, but please try to give us your input in a manner that can be more constructive?

Remember that there are two sides to every coin. The CoC also warns against directly insulting another member. One might percieve some of the staements as a direct insult to Kitten, another might consider her posts to be a direct insult to their intellegence. In any case, Asmodean was acting in the manner he saw fit to improve the tavern.

Guys, Asmodean is awesome, I really can't say enough good about him. This wasn't a big ol' muscle flexing, it was what he felt was best for the community.

The thread is not deleted, and it will not be until it has met its expiration in the wastelands. I think that there is really no reason for anyone to be upset here.

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Shes beyond help Consis thats what you dont understand where we are getting at.
The past has already nailed the last nail in her heart.
Her heart is destroyed of many yrs of abuse & losing too much in her young life.

Shes cant be helped because she is not used to any other but being treated like crap situations.
Shes confused, you can show her straight in her face all the ways she can help herself but she will have her own ideas on how it should be done.
People have already ruined her.
She cant be helped COnsis let her people in WV help her because they can come closer then any of us.

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I am saddened Aculias. You are a good person. I will pray that she finds the strength to be a good mother. I will also continue to post good things for her. I believe it is never too late to change. I know in my heart that she can get through this terribly difficult time in her life. People can change, it is possible.

Kittenangel if you ever read this, I am thinking nothing but good thoughts and best wishes for you. I hope you are able to become the best mother your kids ever know. I have kids too so I know that your babies love their mother no matter what things you have done wrong in your life. To them, you are the most important person in the world. Always remember that they think of you often and love you unconditionally. No matter the circumstances, no matter what people will tell them, no matter how far they are away from you, they will always love you. No one can ever take that away from you Kittenangel. You will always be their mother. I know you can do it. I believe in you.

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I'd like to remind you guys to stay ontopic here please. This thread is for complaints and feedback.

Consis, it's very kind of you to want to help, maybe an e-mail would be more sure to reach her? I don't know that odds are good that she will read this thread anyways.

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Tavern Complaints, Is It Not?

Now I can't post here either? What kind of moderator dictatorship is this? First you and Asmodean ban together and toss the thread we were in to the Wastelands, and now I come here to post in the complaints. But now I'm off-topic. WELL THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE THREAD I WAS USING GETS THROWN TO THE DUNGEONS! I wouldn't have to post it here if you mods hadn't decided to be obstructive by tossing a worthwhile thread to the Wastelands.

I gave you and everyone else an example of the kind of trash that clearly violates CoC. But don't take my word for it. Let's all try to really be objective and compare the two:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=9&TID=13473
and
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=2&TID=11094

If I may, I think the difference between real trash and a thread where real people were having a real conversation that is showing real character is as clear as crystal! I think the thread should be re-instated.

For cryin out loud, I feel like a damn homeless poster with no where left to go. And in case you want to call this post 'off-topic' as well, don't kid yourselves. If you declare this post unacceptable, you might as well rename this thread to "Complain On Your Own Time, Just Don't Bother The Mods".

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I'm a new guy here but I have spent alot of time on other boards and other games. Being a moderator means having power and responsibility. The trickiest decisions are usually best decided by consensus, as when one mod acts alone, its extremely hard not to see things from their own point of view.

I dont really know anyone involved in this "argument", but after reading the thread, I sympathize with each of you, you all have a point. I myself tend towards freedom of expression as long as outright swearing, slander and stupidity dont take over. I do respect this board and what the mods are trying to do, and I resepct Consis for his compassion.

I also have known a few drama queens..what can I say, life is a soap opera, people are strange. Regards to all...

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Since the thread os got a QP, it can't be to bad. So leaving it in VW to rot... is bad.

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Consis, I have really gone out of my way to say that I appreciate your comments and contributions just to avoid any quarrel with you - and here it seems it was all for naught anyways

Aculias made the first post that was offtopic, and then you replied - generally these swings will take an entire thread offtopic and I was simply trying to aoid that. Also note that I commended your efforts, and offered a suggestion as to how you might help Kitten if you so chose. Of course you took this as an attack, that's how we go, isn't it?

The first post in this thread was copied from the original thread created by Redsox and it asks that posters stay on topic. That is all I was pointing out.

Clearly you see it as injustice that the thread is in the Wastelands, and voicing that is absolutely your right , and completely ontopic here. Aculias' post about Kitten's situation and your reply are not. Do you understand?

I was prepared for people to be unkind, and become angry at decisions I have been a part of. I accepted it as part of what it is to be a moderator, so I am not going to allow this to upset me now. I will admit tho, that it makes me sad.

I have never been pro-censorship, and all of my comments in regards to Kitten's threads have been that I do not believe it should be deleted. I proposed the move as an alternative to deletion, not as a means to end the thread.

It has already been stated by Asmodean that the thread can be moved back should members choose to rescue it by means of the "Pending Deletion" thread. If I'm not mistaken though, wasn't moving the thread to the Wastelands rather than deleting it something that you brought up as well?

I don't know what more I can add

It is absolutely your right to express whatever opinions you have about our moderatorship here, and regardless of whether or not I find it hurtful - I welcome it. We cannot be the mods the community wants us to be unless the community lets us know what they are looking for.

Shiva, welcome to the community and thanks for your input  Don't let the arguements frighten you off, we're really quite a friendly bunch

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I'm a sad Pandora Bear.

I think you got a good idea of your job after seeing what I went through. Oh and this idea of temporarily moving the thread I like very much.

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After Re-reading the thread, I have decided to agree with Consis. That thread shouldn't be in the wastelands. I post in the wastelands frequently, and it doesn't belong there. What belongs in the wastelands is threads that are, "Word games and[/or] offtopic discussion." The thread has peoples opinions, actions, and is a important part of HC history. Not all of HC is pretty, some of it is drama. I actually find the old dramatic threads to be a bit entertaining, something different than the regular HC. Also a Qp has been earned, and it would be wrong to delete a thread with a Qp. The thread shouldn't be deleted, it doesn't have much offtopic disscussion (other than people's Delete the thread posts), it mostly has constructive critizism. Maybe that thread could make Kitten a better person, help her solve her problems, Consis gave very good advice. Kitten's thread has real emotion, and it was killing the Boredom monster. I vote for it being moved back into the Tavern, it doesn't belong in the Wastelands.

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For one I made that reply to save COnsis for making any mistakes i have.
Easiar to do what he intended to do in first place to just talk to her on here & only here.
If a person in RL anywhere cant help her then how can this Message board help her.

For 2 the thread was put in Wastelands so Pandora & ravyn can mod in it while Asmodean stays in or out if he pleases & we can cont the topic as if it was still in the RL forum or the tavern & if it is agreed after it all died off it can be out back in tavern locked or deleted in time.

Relax guys & Consis if i didnt care I wouldnt of made that post.

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I vote for "None of the Above."  October wasn't special, nothing extraordinary happened.  Don't give out free Qps.

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