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| Thread: Multiple Winning conditions | |
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El_Diablo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Lord of Terror
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posted July 25, 2001 06:40 AM |
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Multiple Winning conditions
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but I would like to see multiple winning conditions, like a one map campaign, I think this could make things a bit more intresting, just a thought
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*Welcome to Hell*
~~*El Diablo*~~
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Zune
Adventuring Hero
of Tatalia
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posted July 25, 2001 02:02 PM |
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Yes
I agree. Then you would have concentrate more on keeping your towns, not just on attacking one town or killing one hero.
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LadyLily
Known Hero
The Iron Maiden
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posted July 27, 2001 03:26 AM |
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What else is there?
But what other kind of victory conditions could there be? In AoE they haev wonders. Would that be a good idea? I mean, the grail would be needed to complete that maybe, or woudl be very helpful.
But other than that, what else could there be? Collect a number of reasources? That's not good, no use in that. Collect a number of units? No point either. I don't see much more that we coudl win by.
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-LadyLily
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Maximane
Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
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posted July 27, 2001 03:43 AM |
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"Forks in the road are not chosen, they are perceived."
The best type of multiple winning condition 'system' that has shown to practically work is on a Mission Objective basis. Completing certain objectives lead to respective objectives until considered 'won'. This type of system provides a free-ranged progression into a map.
Laying out an objective system is surprisingly easy to program...
* A certain location reached within a number of turns
* Amount of resources collected (this meaning both the labelled resources and units)
You may believe that just reaching a certain amount of resources or reaching a certain location is not challenging. However incorporating layered objectives (where one objective leads apon another) can unravel an entire interactive storyline.
One only needs the patience to organize all the layers.
-Maximane
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."
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El_Diablo
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Lord of Terror
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posted July 27, 2001 07:39 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Objectives
maximane thats exactly what I mean, having to do a series of things before you can win
this can also be done with seers hut quests, in a map that I am making, I have put seers huts with quests that you have to complete to complete other seers huts quests
Heres an example from my map:
ok this seer wants 3 artifacts that are in the posession of 3 other seers, so the hero would have to complete the quests of the other seers to get the artifacts, the reward is the helm of heavenly enlightenment (an artifact needed for combining the angelic alliance).
anyway, I think more things needed to do to win can make a scenario more enjoyable, because it makes it last longer, and while doing these quests enemies could be in your territory causing problems
Having multiple objectives to do for victory would be great, because unlike a seers hut, every player would be trying to complete these objectives which would make for more competition
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*Welcome to Hell*
~~*El Diablo*~~
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Zune
Adventuring Hero
of Tatalia
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posted July 27, 2001 05:09 PM |
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Another idea
What about getting the objectives one after another? First you get one objective, and when you have completed that, you get another one. However, you don't know what the second objective is going to be before you have completed the first one. Then you can't just concentrate on, for example, only the town you are going to take.
I don't think that would work for multiplayer scenarios, but for scenarios where you can only play one colour.
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Maximane
Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
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posted July 27, 2001 11:11 PM |
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Considering the purpose of this post "Multiple Winning Conditions", just having one objective complete one after the other defies.
Completing certain objectives should open up a whole new realm of different objectives. Completing certain ones lead the map's story on. Having just one after the other is just the same old system used previously.
-Maximane
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted July 27, 2001 11:47 PM |
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Quote:
Completing certain objectives should open up a whole new realm of different objectives. Completing certain ones lead the map's story on. Having just one after the other is just the same old system used previously.
Well, if I read the info on the new scripting system correctly, that's going to be possible in Heroes4. A player's actions can cause something to happen elsewhere, and that "something" can trigger another script , and so on.
So, I think we have the possibility of much richer storylines in maps where the outcome is NOT linear, but can change depending on your actions during the game. I think it'll pose a real challenge for map-makers to decide all the possible threads they can open this way. Also, it should greatly add to the challenge and re-playability of maps. Of course, it'll greatly increase the challenge of MAKING good maps as well.
Right now, we sort of have multiple victory conditions in that we can choose to have a special win condition and/or the standard "stomp the other teams into dust, take their towns, and deliver their heroes to oblivion.
Perhaps with the new scripts, we'll be able to set conditions like :
If Red controls town X, capture town X. If Green captures town X, then eliminate Green from the game.
Perhaps with a message like : "Town X has fallen to the barbarians! But fear not, victory can still be ours if we concentrate on wiping out the barbarian scourge!"
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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Maximane
Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
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posted July 28, 2001 02:11 AM |
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Well said Unkahaakan.
If you are looking for HOMMIV to introduce a multiple winning system it is most likely to be implemented. I was unaware if they were finally going to implement this script system (they were still trying to decide either to use it, or scrap it for a similiar system). However I am very glad this will be occuring; non-linear systems always seem to have the advantage of more creativity (naturally) than a linear 'waypoint' storyline.
With a non-linear system a map creator with enough patience could create an entirely new storyline of its own using HOMMIV units.
Like the Dungeom Master (DM) who has set out some basic objectives and through the interaction of the players, was able to make something unique. What more is better is that you can play that game again using the same basic objectives and have another, whole new unique play.
However, to truly make this system work wonders, any computer interaction (AI) would have to be improved for HOMMIV over HOMMIII. HOMMIII's AI system was far from new (at its release) and took on the same linear aspects of classic 'AI Narrow-minded Play'.
How could you fully interact in one of these new maps if the computer player(s) just amass an army and attack?
If they can introduce a customizable AI system that could be used on an individual map basis (like selecting how different computer towns should react and evolve) then this will be grand.
-Maximane
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=6]Library Of Enlightenment[/url], to discuss Heroes 4, please go to [url=http://heroescommunity.com/forumdisplay.php3?FID=17]War Room Of Axeoth[/url].
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."
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