Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: some small easy to fix ideas to improve game
Thread: some small easy to fix ideas to improve game
eeva_leena
eeva_leena

Tavern Dweller
posted July 25, 2001 07:36 PM

some small easy to fix ideas to improve game

these are some small suggestions that the 3do team should fix to improve the quality of the game and some suggestions that makes sense.

1. I think the game should let you pay a repair cost for town walls/arrow towers after a siege. this is simply because it doesnt make sense at all that a second after the first hero attacks the town and lay waste to its walls and when another hero attacks the entire town is brand new. It doesnt make sense and it should be more realistic.

2.  I dont think the catapult should be fixed automically, again, it just doesnt make sense for it to break and be back to normal-unless the hero has infinite spares...but that doenst make sense either since he could use all of them at once and breakdown the entire town. Also, I think the catapult's targets should be targeted by the player even though his/her hero doesnt have the ability. It really doesnt require a skill to say "fire at the left arrow tower!"

3.  Another annoying thing they should fix is boarding and unloading from ships. Yes, it takes a bit time to get on a ship and unload all the monsters but it doesnt make sense that a hero with almost no movement bar left gets the same result froma  hero with full movement bar. Maybe they should implement something like your movement points gets reduced according to the number of creatures you have.

4.  As most people probabyl know, Necropolis army is basically an army controlled by a necromancer using magic. ouldnt it make sense that there should be a spell points reduction for that hero? If he runs out of spell points he can no longer control his group of undead. This penalty is reasonable since it makes sense that it should be given. Maybe the penalty should be given every week to the heroes-not everyday because then it wouldnt be fair unless the necropolis army is a little more powerful than the rest.

5.  Another small thing they can fix is the video clip after the battle. When you lost its always a hoard of undead dragon and it ends with a knight getting shot on the back with an arrow. It doesnt make sense if you are using say-inferno or tower. And if you get beaten completely why would there be creatures left to run? its a very small thing they can fix or even take out maybe and it will make many people (me at least ) happy knowing that the 3do people takes every part of the game seriously.


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 25, 2001 09:40 PM

Because everybody seem to be more interest...

about thing,
did Incubus get "his" creatures into game I reply to you.

1. and 2. I agree. This option should have been already in HoMM3. However it's said that there won't be catapults breaking down the walls in HoMM IV. Visit gamespot and read review there...
You can also read some suggestions from threads of "war machines" and "Battlestations"...

3. Yes, I also agree in this with you. Why does it take all the movement? There's no real reason for it. Maybe this was done only to prevent charging with boats. It would be maybe too easy just take a boat and cross a sea and then attack straight from the shore...
However it could be done in a way that higher level creatures would take more time to unload from the ship? However dragons don't travel in ship so it's not any realism thing...

4. Penalty makes sense but then how about penalty to all heroes if they can't command their creatures? I mean there could be skill like leadership or some kind of rank system that would tell how many troops heroes can command. There's talk about this ranksystem in thread "wandering monsters". Ranks could also affect into morale and if morale would go low enough it would possible mean that you lose control to some of the creatures. Also in gamespot preview there is said that might heroes can affect troops over distances so troops will gain some sort of bonuses.

5. This is really small fix and won't really affect gameplay, however it's possible that HoMM IV is more "polished" version of earlier heroes so it could have at least more than one video clip for defeat.
I don't see that often so *cough*
so I don't remember it so well...

____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maximane
Maximane


Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
posted July 25, 2001 09:58 PM

Considering the fact that the walls remain damaged right after a previous siege is of no surprise.  Can you fix an entire wall of a castle within a turn?
If one rampaging army decides to pay you a visit and a positive outcome (for you) arrises, yes your walls will be down to some extent.  Now what if there was another rampaging army behind the previous one right at your doorstep?  There is no time (none acceptable) to give you a chance to repair.
However I do like the idea of lightening your coffers to make that hasty repair; that idea could be implemented.

As for the other remarks I do not have much to say.  It is too contraversial to make an objective opinion.

-Maximane
____________
"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 25, 2001 11:18 PM

Who are you Maximane?

Quote:
As for the other remarks I do not have much to say. It is too contraversial to make an objective opinion.
-Maximane
--------------------------------------------------
Usually posters here have opinions and sure they aren't really "objective" but you can surely tell what you're thinking of those ideas. We don't surely have many replies in this thread right now...

What makes you say you aren't objective?
Who really is?
But maybe you Maximane aren't such a ordinary poster here, are you?



____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
arachnid
arachnid


Promising
Famous Hero
posted July 26, 2001 02:20 PM

Max is a good poster who always tries to add some sagely advice (which annoys a lot of other people i think)
I think hes being here for quite a while he just doesnt post much (or been away and came back)
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maximane
Maximane


Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
posted July 27, 2001 04:40 AM

The latter is correct, I have been away and back again.

In journalism an 'object reporter' is considered a myth; non-exitent.  However I try to be as objective as possible (more apon the logical side) than opinion-wise.

The 'sagely advice' is more for eccentric humour than for practicality.  However I try to make the advice or quotes fit the subject appropriately.  More for the purpose of leading on the previous post(s), it adds a little more flavour to it.

You will find me at times (perhaps most) to add my opinion in it some way or another.
Do I like Mayo or Mustard?  Do I say Toe-may-toe or Toe-ma-toe?  Poe-tay-toe or Poe-ta-toe?  Ying or yang?  Black or white?

All of our social structure is based more apon opinion than fact.  Which is a good thing I suppose, just not the most practical.  We base everything more apon inversions than observations.  That means if you were to look at a picture and see a door on a house, that is an observation.  If you were to see smoke from a smoke-stack leaning and whistling in a direction, you would consider that wind (making you think it as an observation).  However you can not really see, feel, touch, taste, or smell that wind on that picture, so that is an inversion.

I suppose to make it simply that I post my 'opinions' in my own way.  A little different than others.

-Maximane
____________
"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
David
David

Tavern Dweller
posted July 27, 2001 05:50 AM

Again...

There's already a threat about unrealism. Please take a look at it

HOMM is a hard fantasy game not a real-like game. You can't have more realism in a fantasy game, you can soften the fantasy level.

In a real-like game (Lords of the Realm): everybody is human, everybody eats, army eats first, peasants may die in hunger, army raising create unrests, you may lose control of an unresting town, goods most be moved between counties for them to be available anywhere outside your own country, you need to forge weapons to raise an army.

If you want HOMM to be more realistic, you'll end up with another game. Fantasy and reality are opossed planes.

Fantasy level: from heavily hard to lightly soft

How about opening a poll to determine fantasy level of HOMM?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Maximane
Maximane


Adventuring Hero
Pot Burner
posted July 27, 2001 11:16 PM

"The border between Fantasy and Reality is Imagination"

I would personally have to agree with such a statement.

However I do not say things because of realism; that is just 'how' I say it.  Doesn't really matter how you really reach a destination.

Every small tidbit and tweak improves the game just that much.  Every small concern and detail should be dealt with (if even just looked at).  

That is one of the wonders of this forum.

-Maximane



____________
"Understanding is a three-edged sword..."

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 27, 2001 11:58 PM

It's about reasoning...

I'm 100% sure that this won't end up being any philosophical what is logic or realism discussion.
And if it will, I'm not going to be part of it.
However let me say something...

What I personally look in game is that there is some reason behind every aspect of game even if it's fantasy. Because weren't talking about here any abstract fantasy...
I personally want that game is tweaked so it feels like there's some "sense" behind all the ideas.

Let's take example:
If I remember right there were units in computer game called Myth that would throw bodyparts towards the enemy and some of the units could explode (this was some undead unit).
What comes first to my mind is that why someone would start throwing bodyparts when someone can throw stones or other kinds of stuff? I never get this kind of stuff...Also why one would explode himself and how this happens if one is undead? I would understand some kind of Dwarven Suicide Bomb party but undead that explodes?...
Maybe the game is trying to be funny and crazy but surely it doesn't make any sense. I would understand if the whole game would be crazy and have really weird ideas but this isn't the case.

Game that has elements that are beyond my reasoning and if I keep asking during the game again and again that why one thing is such away that it doesn't feel reasonable I stop playing the game. I personally can't stand games like this. In HoMM there aren't so many things that make me wonder but there are some.

Of course we must always keep the line between the "hardcore" game and "have-fun" game. But it's hard to determine what is fantasy level of game. I'm not first one that would change game into more real-life game but surely you have something to add to the game and I think this forum is perfect for any suggestions concerning them.
____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
David
David

Tavern Dweller
posted July 28, 2001 04:14 AM

Body parts and exploding undeads

Have someone listen that about reality overcomes fantasy?

During crusades, when sieging cities; christian soldiers used head, arms, legs, brains and anything available as ammo for there stone throwers (the first prototipe of a catapult) to intimidate, demoralize or corrupt enemy cities.
Turks and Arabs obvioulsy laughed at that 8D

With the reckoning of firearms, Vlad Tepes made explosive body parts cannon balls to load his artilleries. Intimidation again, but this one really worked... as Turks never made to capture Castle Dracul.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 28, 2001 01:29 PM

Yes...

Bodies were used also to spread diseases...

But bodyparts in field battle?
Undead throwing them?
And explosive undead?

Hah!...
I say.
____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gunnrunner
Gunnrunner


Adventuring Hero
The Mail Order Bride From Hell
posted July 28, 2001 10:38 PM

Fantasy v.s Reality

Well I personally think that we can add reality to the fantasy game. Fantasy games are mainly based on the ideas of mythology and medieval times. You can add realism like the way Eeva suggested. Look at Warhammer, they have quite a bit of realism in their game, but its still fantasy based as there are elves, demons, griffons and all. NWC has already been adding plenty of realistic features to the game (If you compare HOMM II to III) and their not just going to stop there. I can bet theyre goina have after-battle cinematics based on the army types(e.g. Castle v.s Dungeon army might show a Griffon eating a Troglodyte or an Evil Eye strangling an Angel lol)

I agree with Eeva on the ship idea as i involve naval stategy in most of my games and find the fact that i must spend my entire turn emptying my army is annoying.

Well About the walls, they should be able to repair within a turn (just like building anything else in a turn) but should have a price.

Maybe Catapults should now be bought just like First Aid Tents and Balistas.

In all multi army games they make it so the armies are balanced to the player liking. (e.g. In Starcraft, Protoss make for excellent defenses and fast assaults but arent that good for direct attacks. Terran make excellent attackers and can move into an enemy base and take it over swiftly but have pretty shabby defense. Finally Zerg are a balance with medium in all categories.) What im trying to say is that if we gave Necromancers that handicap then we would also have to make others weaker in some area. This will allow the user to not only base his favourite army on the types of units or the look of the town but to also choose his army based on strategies.

I agree with Shaman on hisidea of morale, but morale shouldnt be just it. Say a L.1 Knight gets hold of a dragon, the dragon would have lower morale in combat due to being in a wrong army (He'd prefer Rampart, Dungeon or Necropolis depending on his type) but also would have lower morale because hes being ordered by a weak novice hero. And maybe, if luck and/or morale get low enough, the dragon would become neutral and sit on the map waiting to strike someone.

I feel that HOMM is a young series and must go through trial and error, stuff that isnt liked in HOMM IV will be fixed in HOMM V.
____________
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the dogs of war!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Shadow_Phoenix
Shadow_Phoenix


Known Hero
Shadow Ruler
posted July 29, 2001 12:03 AM

One thing is fantasy but even on a fantasy world it would be hard to have walls regenerating after a battle. The same hapens to the catapults. I do agree that loading and unloading ships should be better done. About the necromancer I think that it would take some part of the fun of the game. Finaly, I  don't even think that the battle movies will be there in heroes 4.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
David
David

Tavern Dweller
posted July 29, 2001 04:19 AM

Answers

Answers for fantasy questions come from fantasy. Answers for reality come from reality.

When you create a world for a game you set the level of fantasy or reality according to the rules you want to use.
If you want to see a game where gravity works as we know, set reality level high. Instead, if you want to see gravity as in The Roadrunner set reality level low (or fantasy high)

HOMM is set to hard fantasy because its rules come from that level. If producers want it soft fantasy its rules will be closer to reality. Rules stretch while you go deeper into fantasy.

If it doesn't make sense to you the walls be reconstructed before a second siege on the same turn, it's because you are thinking in reality terms and not in fantasy terms.

When you see a movie or a theater play you know it's fantasy, but while it's running you don't say: "look at that guy, he's making as if he were Romeo and...". You BELIEVE he's Romeo while the play runs on. This is called: "Suspension of Disbelief". But if any time Romeo dons a ninja suit and starts shooting everyone with an assault rifle... you immediatly stop believing.

Just my little grain of sand

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
pleuris
pleuris


Promising
Known Hero
Look ma! No hair!
posted July 29, 2001 06:20 AM

Back to the topic

I think, when your castlewall is damaged you should have to repair it somehow. When you can build a, say tavern, in 1 day, there should be another option in the city/town/capitol window: Repair wall
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gunnrunner
Gunnrunner


Adventuring Hero
The Mail Order Bride From Hell
posted July 29, 2001 10:40 AM

They ought to just make another community for us: PC Philosophers. Well David, the thing is that we want to add realism into the game so that you actually get into the game. Look at HOMM II, it wasnt very realistic and i found it hard to get into the game. But HOMM III was more realistic with more spells, better rules, and better graphics. with HOMM III i could play for hours on end easily. With HOMM IV Im hoping i'll never be heard from again.
____________
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the dogs of war!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
David
David

Tavern Dweller
posted July 29, 2001 05:16 PM

We?

You (and the ones that support me) want to lower the fantasy level.

I just look the answer for repaired wall within opponent's turn in fantasy. Do all the people inside your settlements stay just looking around? No.

Tavern guys take care of their guests, delivering everything what they need and going to the market to buy supplies. Specially for the VIP's, i.e., the heroes.

Hall guys make sure the taxes are paid and store the resources for the national treasury and it to be disposable by the ruler.

Why not just think there are another people who take care for training among the common people (or monsters) the ones that will be available for recruiting or for maintenance?

If you still trying to get a fantasy game fit into reality you won't. It's like to fit a square into a circle hole. You can, but just before changing the shape of the square.

If you lower (or raise) the fantasy level of HOMM, then you may get a completely different game.

Changes should be made in order to keep "the spirit" of the game.

More grains of sand


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Sha_Men
Sha_Men


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
posted July 29, 2001 07:22 PM

I don't really need this philisophical...

Here's my biggest bag of grain...
I have read enough philosophy for my life time and I don't really need another "deep" conservation...

What says that repairing buildings isn't fantasy?
Fantasy is what we want it to be. It can be so close to reality but still be fantasy. You (David) are talking about "fantasylevel"...Do you mean that heroes should be some kind of hard fantasy where people can fly and stuff like that? Also my example of Myth is perfect example of this kind of game. If you want this kind of game, we don't really have anything common that we want from heroes.

Are you expert of knowing what designers want?
I didn't want to use word "realism" because somehow people are afraid of it. I'm not going to say that I want realism and that's why I want those walls to be rebuild, because it seems to scare someone.

If I say:
Howabout adding to the game some kind of castle repairing? It's entirely your decision to think is it fantasy or realism. We can have fantasy game where you have to repair your walls. And "fantasylevel" doesn't really do not have to be anything to do with it. Unless you entirely want to make game that isn't "realistic" in most cases. Otherwise it's the same do we talk about "fantasylevel" or just what kind of improvents everybody personally wants. I think repair option would add game something. And I didn't mean realism. Of course there are people who see it as add of realism and some as attack towards "hard" fantasy.
____________
Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gunnrunner
Gunnrunner


Adventuring Hero
The Mail Order Bride From Hell
posted July 29, 2001 08:22 PM

A Fantasy based game meerly means that it has Mythological and Medieval based Gameplay and nothing more.

Repairing walls was common in Medieval times and beyond. During the Battle of Troy they always had groups of men to repair the walls during a siege, which was quite common as Troy was a major defensive city wanted by many nations. Troys final downfall was when an earthquake shattered the walls beyond repair, this let invaders in. The moral of the story, fat people shouldnt eat beans during a siege.

The previous story had abolutly no meaning i just felt like saying something weird as im loaded with more cola then homer is with beer.

David, Fantasy game doesnt mean its the opposite of realistic, fantasy game means that its medieval and mythological topics in it. If you want hard fantasy where nothing is realistic, try getting stoned.
____________
Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the dogs of war!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
David
David

Tavern Dweller
posted July 30, 2001 03:42 PM
Edited by alcibiades at 16:32, 08 Jan 2008.

Nice...

Everybody could see the additions as something different...
As it's exposed i see it like an attack to hard fantasy while someone else sees like giving more realism.

It's just a matter of view. But view come from thoughts about the game.

I just think before trying to explain something that doesn't make sense from any logical statement you can uphold. Do a little effort for doing the same with the logic inside the game. That's why i tried to say when i refered a movie or a theater play.

When i play HOMM i forget magic and dragons don't exist, at least for my rational mind... they do exist for my imaginative mind

If after the analysis with in-game logic, it doesn't make sense some feature with "the spirit" of the game then use your own logic to fix it what opposes to the game spirit.

When i saw Gladiator i stared amazed at the Numid's armor. It perfectly resembled a Muslim warrior's armor from the crusades. It broke "the spirit" of the movie, using roman empire logic. Then, the Caesar's stepped into the arena. Either it's the most stupid emperor of Rome or he really expected his Praetorian Guard will take care of him.

As for HOMM i can (maybe someone else can't) find an in-game logic explanation for some features like fortification repairs in between sieges of the same turn.

Instead i can't find an in-game logic explanation for soldiers running in front of the enemy fire in Command & Conquer, because they have to walk around a geographical accident or an structure. Why don't they just stay in formation?

My 2 cartloads of grain bags

PS: who gaves more grains? maybe HOMM economy should change to grain currency jajajaja



Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread »
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0807 seconds