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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Guild of Debaters
Thread: Guild of Debaters This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · NEXT»
Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted August 14, 2004 05:25 AM

Guild of Debaters

This is an idea I had a while back, but seeing the Guilds idea effectively implementing itself, I think I can incorporate debate in the guild frame.

We have debates all the time in the other side. But they are not debates; they are kind a like open discussions with no rules and some spam from time to time. A real debate is something different. I think we have some brilliant minds here that can debate, and this would be an opportunity for people to rate them and comment, and most importantly learn how to lead a meaningful discussion.

We can discuss topic proposals here and as soon as we have a debating pair willing to debate something, a new thread will be opened where they will debate a standardized Karl-Popper format with a time frame. It’s not complicated as it sounds, I will get to that later. Topics can vary from history to philosophy, from trivia to politics. After a debate is finished or during the debate lasts, people can post comments here, concerning the debaters, the arguments, anything. It is extremely important for people not to post in the debate threads, unless they are debating, and every post of that kind should be deleted by mods.

The Format

The format should be a standard Karl-Popper, but depending on the topic the debating style can be significantly changed. A Karl-Popper debate requires two sides, an affirmative and a negative, each of them is supposed to base their speeches on arguments logically supported, or in some cases with facts, but the logical base of the arguments is most important. Refuting and rebuttal are essential for the debate, because clash points are usually what will determine the winner. What would differ a normal discussion from a debate is the focus on the arguments, cause they are the main weapons. Therefore, they should be easily distinguishable, maybe even with numbers. But is the nature of the resolution is such that it requires a different focus (implementing a very specific policy, causal relations) then a significant modification should be done to this method, but I think people can do it as long as they think logically.

Now, how would the speeches be. First starts affirmative. Then negative submits a list of up to 10 questions if he likes, which the aff is required to answer. Then negative makes his opening speech, giving his arguments and refuting the opponents’. Then aff asks up to 10 questions to the negative. He answers, if any are asked. Then aff makes the refutation and rebuttal, defending his arguments and attacking the negative ones. After which the neg makes his rebuttal, re-establishing his own arguments and again refuting the opponents arguments. After all of this, closing speeches are required. First the aff, then the neg, but sometimes it can be the neg first and then the aff.
The posts should not be too long. They should be concise and clear.
Each debater has 48 hours to post his speech, countdown starting after the last post by the opponent.
If the time frame is respected, then the debate should last maximum 2 weeks, but hopefully often people will respond faster.

Evaluation

The first post in each debate thread will have a voting poll included where people could be able to give votes for the debaters. It is extremely important people to vote for the debater who they think did his job best, and not for the side they personally support.
In addition to the voting poll, the first post will show clearly the topic and the names of the debaters.
Often, a debater doesn’t have to support the side he’s debating. And often we can have people debating a side they don’t support. You’ll find that its more productive than anything else, since it exposes your opinion to critical thinking and reveals its weak spots better than anyone else ever could.




How do you like the idea. Do I have any candidates for my Guild already? Hold down your hands. Everyone will get a chance.

Everybody willing to debate please give me sign, and consider what kind of topics might interest you. A special appeal for participation goes to Peacemaker, Lews Therin, privatehudson, Consis, Khaelo, bort, Wub, khayman, Aquaman, Wolfman, Asmodean, Shadowcaster and others willing to discuss more serious topics. I’d like to hear from these guys soon enough so that I can propose some topics worth for consideration.
Also, all other guys are invited to discuss any kind of topic. You’ll see that its more difficult than the ordinary empty talks even when talking about a topic as trivial as “Pepsi is better than Coke.”
The realization of this idea depends on you.

____________
The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Wiseman
Wiseman


Known Hero
posted August 14, 2004 10:25 AM

I think that privatehudson shouldn`t be allowed to debate.Everybody knows he`ll ruthlessly smash his opponent before the poor guy knows what hit him.
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Truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head.

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TheRealDeal
TheRealDeal


Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
posted August 14, 2004 11:40 AM

I would like to join in. I'm willing to discuss almost everythin, WHICH i have knowlegde about. Take in mind that i am from Denmark, where the system is some what different from other countrys.

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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 14, 2004 01:06 PM

Quote:
I think that privatehudson shouldn`t be allowed to debate.Everybody knows he`ll ruthlessly smash his opponent before the poor guy knows what hit him.


You assume I Want to join in....

And I don't smash them, I introduce them to facts
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted August 15, 2004 02:27 AM

Quote:
You assume I Want to join in....

Well, your factual holiness, dont you want to join in? I dont need an official membership, just a confirmation that from time to time, you'd be willing to participate on an topic of your concern.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 15, 2004 01:40 PM

It would have to be a topic that interests me a lot, since my time these days is very limited. So I doubt I'll be taking part really.
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Aquaman333
Aquaman333


Famous Hero
of the seven seas
posted August 16, 2004 06:25 AM

I'm in, but I probably won't be able to come in as often as I'd like, what with a new semester beginning...
____________
"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,    
"OOOOOOO!"."  
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy

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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted August 16, 2004 02:20 PM

This is a good idea, Svarog.  I, however, must turn down your request to participate since it wouldn't be fair to the other participants.  No, no, that's not an arrogant statement, I'm not saying that I'd "win" or anything like that, but given that this is formalized, people might have to wait weeks for my rebuttal or reply and that's just not fair to the people who just took the time to post.
____________
Drive by posting.

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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted August 17, 2004 12:21 AM

Well, I'd be interested, but I wouldn't be able to for a couple weeks.  My computer is messed up right now, so I can't browse HC like I used to.  
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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted August 17, 2004 02:42 AM

RealdDeal, PH, Aquaman, bort, Wolfman, thank you for your responses.

Just one thing, be more flexible. This is not time-binding or anything. You can participate whenever you like, and if you agree with your opponent, the time limit for posting can be lenghtened (so bort, dont complain now. You've got nowhere to go.).
The initial purpose was to know if people are generally interested to have real debates around here, and give support or not. If we are to have them, we'd need more potential debaters to pick from.

The long term purpose of this thread is to serve as place that people would visit often to propose topics and see if there are any they are interested to debate, as well as to post comments about the on-going debates.

I'll IM the lazy guys who still havent responded and see what they think.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Asmodean
Asmodean


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
posted August 17, 2004 12:14 PM
Edited By: Asmodean on 17 Aug 2004

I'm in.
Though I'm more than likely to take the 3rd view in any debate - the sarcastic.
As long as your ok with that

What's our first topic so I can do a bit of research?
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted August 17, 2004 05:36 PM

How about something local for starters?

"Guild of Debaters and Guilds in general - good or bad idea?"


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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 18, 2004 10:51 PM
Edited By: Lews_Therin on 18 Aug 2004

I may take part in a debate that I find interesting, but probably not before next month, as I´m going on another vacation next week ...
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TheRealDeal
TheRealDeal


Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
posted August 19, 2004 09:29 AM

Hmmm.

It would be kinda nice to know when we start, and what the starting subject would be.

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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted August 20, 2004 05:35 AM

Ok, everybody, I give you our proud debating squad (those that supported the idea):
Lews Therin
privatehudson
RealDeal
Svarog
Wub
Aquaman
Wolfman
Asmodean
Peacemaker and khayman havent responded yet, Khaelo and bort may post, but they dont have time, and consis is stubborn as always. The group is open for anyone anytime.



These are few of the topics that came to my mind. Naturally you're allowed to propose some of your own liking.

Up for grabs:
Human embryon cloning should be banned.
Terrorism is never justified.
China will be the cause for WW3. (consis mentioned his wish to debate this once.)
The nation-state system is the most efficient one.
Homosexuality is a genetically natural phenomenon.
Organized religion should be banned.
Fiderich Nietzsche was evil philosopher.
Science is more important than Art.
Dingo is better spammer than Lord Woock.
America is better than Europe.
Swearing on HC should always be penalized.
Djive is a male.

I hope theres something suitable for everybody. Pick (or propose) a topic you like. Wait for a partner, or find one through IM.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 20, 2004 10:26 AM

Hmmm...

I'll discuss most history topics, but prefer those about warfare of some sort.
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted August 20, 2004 12:04 PM

I am willing to debate the Dingo vs Lord Woock one
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted August 20, 2004 01:04 PM

Well, I am against banning organised religion. I wonder who would take the opposite position .
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted August 20, 2004 03:29 PM
Edited By: Consis on 20 Aug 2004

How Insulting

You didn't even spell the man's name correctly. How insulting of someone so influencial to me!

It is spelled:

"Friedrich Nietzsche"

And no, I do not believe he was an evil philosopher though he was quite the Fiddler on the Roof if you get my meaning. I don't think he actually made a deal with that which he claimed to be in fear of, however, but I do believe he let himself absorb too much of the experience.

I've quoted him in my "Baldur's Gate Diaries" at least once. You can find it at this link:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=11734

I should also like to clear up your incorrectly saying that I believed China to be the cause of WWIII. I do not think this. What I said was that WWIII would be between the U.S. and China. The actual cause, I left for debate in the thread that you never created.

Furthermore,

I've already begun an excellent thread for discussion on the theory/philosophy of cloning in my thread entitled:

"Abortion/Contraception/Stem Cell Research" which can be found at this link:
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=10&TID=12254
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted August 20, 2004 04:00 PM
Edited By: privatehudson on 20 Aug 2004

I'm wondering who rattled consis' cage this week....

Anyway, I could add...

Was the use of the Atom bomb against Japan a unjustified warcrime or merely the lesser of all evils the allies faced? (I could put forward both, but would prefer "lesser of all evils"

Was any one of the "Big Three" allied countries (USA, USSR, UK) more responsible for winning WWII than the others? If yes, which? (I would prefer to argue that none of them were more important)

Napoleon, a visionary trying to unite and liberate Europe, or a warmongering meglomaniac? (I would prefer to argue that he was the latter)

I could add others I suppose and am open to suggestions, nor do I think they have to be as rigid as above, just some suggestions for what sides people could take. Fit that into the rather unusual format we're supposed to use as you wish.

Consis: The point of these forms of debate are more person to person debates were each compares their ability against another. That thread will prove useful to the debaters, but will hopefully suplement it


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