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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Are 7th level troops important
Thread: Are 7th level troops important This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT»
Shadow_Phoenix
Shadow_Phoenix


Known Hero
Shadow Ruler
posted August 03, 2001 03:08 PM

I see that 7th level troops are important for you all but for some reason I still don't think that they have the importance that sometimes is given to them. I remember one time that I won a battle because of this. I had 60 Black Dragons and about 300 Minotaur Kings, about 80 Dread Knights 200 Vampire Lords and a lot of shooters. I just knew that my enemy was going to give top importance to my Black Dragons so i just put them in the middle of battlefiel. Result, my enemy overlooked my other troops and just put all his army in my blackies. Then my minotaurs and Dread Knights just wiped out his troops while his Titans (he had a huge tower army) were being blocked by my VL. And if he wiped out my BDs in 1 round (even if he could) it wouldn't make that big diference. They weren't crucial, and I think that I could win that battle without them (even with a amy larger them mine.  So i don't think that 7th level do that big diference in most of the cases especially if you have some great spells.

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UnkaHaakon
UnkaHaakon


Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
posted August 03, 2001 04:08 PM

Quote:
Well UnkaHaakon, you certainly are a patient man to last thru that long battle. I`m just hoping you used that implosion couple of more times...


patience had little to do with it...I had the Shackles of War equipped LOL

So, even if I hadn't been in town, I couldn't have run or surrendered ...no choice but to fight it out.

And I was low on spell points when I ducked in, having just finished a big fight with black dragons that cost me most of my army (except for the aforementioned devil. Note: resurrection without earth magic may win you a fight, but it's still gonna hurt).  I was going to buy troops in the town, but like a moron..I forgot, and hit the hourglass to end my turn. I had enough to cast the implosion, and a couple of magic arrows, and that was it. (I used one of those to take out his first aid tent.) It was an interesting experience, and one I'd rather not ever repeat.
::wolfish grin:: I got some nice stuff out of it, though ..including the Angel Wings he used to come out of nowhere and hit me. Of course, if he'd had any shooters or flyers, I'd have been toast.
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"

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targon_the_l...
targon_the_lunar_archer


Known Hero
Ranger of AvLee
posted August 04, 2001 02:52 AM

...forgot to buy new troops, eh?

...this happens to me from time to time - don´t you just hate it? - there goes your main hero troopless (i´m not even sure if this word exists)
...another thing: my hero is refilling his/her spell points in a town; i´ve planned my movement perfectly and just reached the town - so i get him/her rid of slower troops to boost my movement next turn - of course only my level 7 creatures stay - and then blast it!!! i forget to put them back in - what is this? a hero with gold dragons only? but i havo not such likes in my ranks... hey, it´s Kyrre, my main hero! wtf? ahhh... (this is the usual reaction of course)
...it used to happen to me earlier (when i was still green and young): building problem - you know, when you forget to build something every day...
...luckilly, with time i got rid of this bad habit
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Utúlie'n aurë, aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!
Auta i lomë!

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IceDragon
IceDragon


Adventuring Hero
endangered species
posted August 04, 2001 05:05 AM

I don't really think the 7th level + critters are necessarily all they're made out to be.  But then, as people have indicated, it's more what you do with your army than the level of creatures you have in your army.  I've won a tough battle before with just a few hundred gargoyles and some good spells.

That's what I love about this game.  I absolutely SUCK at arcade style shoot-em-ups that require fast reactions and reflexes.  I'm 22 and only JUST finished the first level of Donkey Kong (and got killed on the second) on a lil simulator 2 years ago.  After trying since I was 6, I was very pleased with myself for that accomplishment.  But I can strategize well... and that's what this game is all about.  Sure, the idea is to pummel your opponent, but you gotta be smart about it.  My husband introduced me to HOMM2 last year (I'd never heard of it before since, after all, computer games just weren't my thing) and I got hooked... so he pulled out his HOMM3 and AB and we play hotseat a lot.  Now I beat him more often than he beats me when we play opponents.  And when he plays online, sometimes I help him out... 2 heads are, after all, better than one.

I love dendroids, yep yep... best possbile garrison troop there is IMHO.  I don't usually buy them for my main hero (or I just buy a token stack) but they guard my castles well!
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 04, 2001 07:53 AM

U all missed the point...

An earlier comparison I saw said something like why would u have a bone drag, if u can have 8 vampires instead. Because u can have both thats why. And what maps are y'all playing? 60 blacks? 200 black knights? 300 crusaders and 100 champions with one devil? and the very first post? I would be dead bored b4 I finished the first 10 days of that game. Its crazy, and a crazy argument anyway

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Thunder
Thunder


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted August 04, 2001 11:45 AM

You can kill horde of denroids with one AD only...

.....if they aren`t divided into two or more stacks. If they are you are in trouble (and your kingdom has one AD less).

I can hardly believe that one Arch Devil can kill 100 champions along with those crusaders. This could be only possible with spell or/and terrain objects blocking the path from champions.
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soccerfeva
soccerfeva


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted August 14, 2003 03:10 PM
Edited By: soccerfeva on 14 Aug 2003

Quote:
You have a point there nebuka, my opponent is not a great heroes 3 player, I play heroes for a lot more time then he does (I started with good old heroes 1) but even that way I think that his level 7 troops were killed to easy. I also remember a time when I lost against other player in hot seat when my 20 Arch Devils were killed by my oponent 70 dendroids (ok, it was a stiupid move but it just helps proving that all heroes 3 game centers arround 4th and 5th, because they have the best strenght/growing rate/price combination (if we don't count conflux creatures). Anybody agrees?


If you were right that yr opponent wasn't a great h3 player,I think you could give me his army and you take your army. I might win.

His army doeesn't seem too bad to me,but the fact that you have 400 battle dwarves totally shocked me. That's a massive and powerful army. Battle dwarves are often underated becoz of their speed,and I believe you have a more superior army then your opponent. Trust him to pick such troops for combat.
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EmperorSly
EmperorSly


Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
posted August 15, 2003 10:47 AM

when you have 60 vampire lords, your 5 ghost dragons are the least of my problems

7th levels are all-important when you play XL money loaded map. I never play such.

On a small or medium map, played at some higher difficulty level (the ideal setup for multi if you want to have some challenge and haven't got whole week) they dont really matter. Especially if the map is not ridiculously rich.

In such cases, it takes minimimum three weeks to get your first 7th levels. And normally at that time you are already under serious threat from opponents army of lots of lower level guys amassed over time. Having a few sevenies wont save the day here.

Even more importantly, I would say the fate of the map is decided on week 1 -- it depends on how fast you manage to secure the resources for development. If you are successful on week 1, you have strong development base and will thus be faster on all upcoming weeks too. And 7th level guys wont be helping you here.

I just remeber the most fun multi game I ever played was a 3 player deathmatch, where the victory was decided by who managed to get the most battledwarves and gain control of the wood mine so as to finally upgrade your elves to grand. It was a map where dwarves were reality, dendroids were the long term goal, unicorns were a dream, and green dragons were simply irrelevant. And it was extremely exciting and tense.

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I
I


Famous Hero
posted August 15, 2003 04:54 PM

Lol, what about Phoenix/Blackdrag & Armageddon combinations???

What about cloned fast 7th lvls?

what about aa clones which can resurrect all ur army?

What bout 1st trurn caster? 7th lvl the fastest give u an opportunity to haste urs or slow ur enemies troops??


7th lvls are *almost everytime main force of every army!


*almost - exeptional deamon hording and necro fights.

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hackytheconq...
hackytheconquerer


Hired Hero
who comes cheap
posted August 17, 2003 08:21 AM

I think everyone has put in some good points. but i think it realy comes down to strategy and what you can do with what you got.
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soccerfeva
soccerfeva


Disgraceful
Famous Hero
banned
posted August 17, 2003 02:38 PM

In fact,you all have a point there. 7th lv troops are not as important as many people think. 7th lv creatures are overated. Yes you heard that right. OVERATED.

I played the map to kill for power. Archdevils came at 3 per week but pit lords came at 8 per week.I am begining to suspect that 8 pit lords do more damage than 3 arch. I've no proof to this,but I don think that's the case.

If you study the stats closely,some lv 6 or lv 5 creatures,take up the total combined hp and damage and compare it to the lv 7s. You would be surprised that some actually beats the lv 7s.

Not counting the hp,but just count the damage.

I played the map to kill for power,and casting frenzy on my devils didn't help much. I cast it on my pit lords-which were 300+ and they whacked 26k damage right into the enemy. Poof!

That proves my point. The numbers of lv 6 or 5 production is even more deadly that some lv 7s.
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allu
allu


Known Hero
the supreme heroe
posted August 18, 2003 01:24 PM

well I think that l6 are more important and the 7 or 5

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 18, 2003 01:40 PM
Edited By: rychenroller on 18 Aug 2003

Soccertosser you forget so much. Some experience would tell you that at the rate of production you mentioned, your Archdevils would be far more important. Why? because of their speed. Speed 17 Archdevils more often than not give you initiative and once they die, more than likely your opponent has the initiative in battle. Casting first spell in the later rounds of a final battle can almost be as important as the whole battle itself, and for that reason, you gotta have those devils, you gotta keep those devils and they should be your main priority always.

Boys and girls, this game is all about level 7 creatures. Imagine how useful stronghold would be without ancients, or castle would be without archies...seriously.
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Myctteakyshd

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 18, 2003 09:15 PM

Quote:
In fact,you all have a point there. 7th lv troops are not as important as many people think. 7th lv creatures are overated. Yes you heard that right. OVERATED.

I played the map to kill for power. Archdevils came at 3 per week but pit lords came at 8 per week.I am begining to suspect that 8 pit lords do more damage than 3 arch. I've no proof to this,but I don think that's the case.
........

Not counting the hp,but just count the damage.

I played the map to kill for power,and casting frenzy on my devils didn't help much. I cast it on my pit lords-which were 300+ and they whacked 26k damage right into the enemy. Poof!

That proves my point. The numbers of lv 6 or 5 production is even more deadly that some lv 7s.


Sometimes, soccafeva, i get afraid of your "logical thinking".
Did you ever tried out, what you´re posting here?
Try it with your editor, take two heroes with no attack and no defense skill. Now give one of them 10 Archdevils and the other one 50 pitlords. If you can win this fight with your pitlords, than only because your AD´s died of aging. Now try and raise the number of pitlords until you can´t win the fight anymore.
Then, be so kind , post the number of pitlords you needed here in this thread and then we can discuss again how important lev7 creatures are in homm3


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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Dingo
Dingo


Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
posted August 18, 2003 09:18 PM

No to Mention that Devils have teleport, -1 enemy luck and most importantly no retailation.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.

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I
I


Famous Hero
posted August 19, 2003 02:48 AM

hm.. am I smthng missing here or do u have some heroes  version where u get 3 archdevils per week????

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted August 19, 2003 05:32 AM

Quote:
hm.. am I smthng missing here or do u have some heroes  version where u get 3 archdevils per week????


When you read soccafevas post above, he mentioned that he was playing the map "to kill for power", were you get about 7 or 8 AD`s a week later in the game
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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EmperorSly
EmperorSly


Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
posted August 19, 2003 09:16 AM

a little analogy

if we start the game with fully built towns then of course the 7th level troop is most important. but normally we dont. its more like this:

carl lewis is at the 100 m run start. i'am standing 10 m before the finish line. when the start bang sounds, we both start running, and I WIN! even though i am much crappier runner than carl lewis. its because of the head start. and same for level 5 and 6 creatures...
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted August 19, 2003 03:03 PM

Quote:
if we start the game with fully built towns then of course the 7th level troop is most important. but normally we dont. its more like this:

carl lewis is at the 100 m run start. i'am standing 10 m before the finish line. when the start bang sounds, we both start running, and I WIN! even though i am much crappier runner than carl lewis. its because of the head start. and same for level 5 and 6 creatures...


Your analogy sucks. I start well behind....but I catch up because I have speed 17 and your speed is 7. Plus I've been on steroids....I have 200 hp, whereas you have 45. Heroes is not a sprint trip...its a staying test, with many pitfalls along the way.

Find a better analogy.
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Myctteakyshd

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EmperorSly
EmperorSly


Known Hero
Destroyer of Liver
posted August 19, 2003 04:10 PM

if you must run 10 times more, you wont catch up, even if you are three times as fast.

it all depends whats your game. 90 meters headstart means nothing in a marathon, everything in sprint and something inbetween in medium runs.

of course, if its a large map, that lasts 2 months, played on easy difficulty so that you can build 7th level dwelling on week 1, or week 2 by latest -- yes, they matter the most then. but if its small or medium map, where game lasts maybe 3 and a half weeks at most, and where difficulty is turned up a bit, so that you can build your level 7s by the end of week 3, if lucky, then no -- the few devils wont matter a bit. being one that hasnt got the time to play large maps, I tend to consider heroes as a sprint, hence my meagre interest in level 7s.
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