|
| Thread: Wrong-placed creatures |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
armageddonic...
Adventuring Hero
|
posted October 05, 2004 09:34 PM |
|
|
Wrong-placed creatures
What creatures do you think are placed in the wrong town?
I think this:
Troll: Why are they placed in Stronghold/Asylum? They really should be in Nature town. I'm Norwegian, so I know this. In the Norwegian fairy tales (that's where the trolls come from), the trolls are usually forest guardians, which allways end up being killed by some "hero". For example, in one fairy tale, there is a poor man with three sons, which are sent to chop down some wood. The troll stopps them from ruining the forest, and it ends up with the youngest son "saving the day" by killing the troll and stealing it's gold. Do they sound evil?
Genie:
One: They should be neutral
Two: They do not belong in some icy place.
Phoenix: Now, placing them in the forest is stupid. They could accidentaly burn it all down!
Dwarves: They did not belong in nature, putting them in order was a good thing (they are mountain miners)
Efreet: Same as genie
Gargoyle: Gargoyles weren't evil, so why necropolis? (in fact they weren't even alive, they were just some ugly statues)
Behemoth: Demons belong in demon town
BUT, as said in earlier topics, I would rather like demons and undeads to be spread beetween towns
____________
|
|
Kallen
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 05, 2004 11:27 PM |
|
|
Troll as forest guardian???
Behemoth it's a demon?????
____________
From the beginnin' to end Losers lose, winners win This is real, we ain't got to pretend The cold world that we in Is full of pressure and pain I thought it would chane
But its stayin' the same
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted October 06, 2004 12:33 PM |
|
|
lots of open questions imho.
Quote:
In the Norwegian fairy tales (that's where the trolls come from), the trolls are usually forest guardians, which allways end up being killed by some "hero". For example, in one fairy tale, there is a poor man with three sons, which are sent to chop down some wood. The troll stopps them from ruining the forest, and it ends up with the youngest son "saving the day" by killing the troll and stealing it's gold. Do they sound evil?
yes, the youngest son was evil .
ok, trolls were same alignment as elves and faeries and druids in king's bounty (predecessor of homm). some other norwegian suggested that there could be a separate troll alignment, or else the trolls would eat elves. and in homm3 there was the green/gold dragon that would also eat elves and that seemed to be no problem. now, what is your opinion about elves and trolls in the same town? how would they get along?
Quote:
Genie:
One: They should be neutral
Two: They do not belong in some icy place.
maybe one solution could be making the wizard town neutral?
Quote:
Phoenix: Now, placing them in the forest is stupid. They could accidentaly burn it all down!
yes, what the fire of the phoenix is about and if they belong in nature town or not is a tough question. it could be metaphysical fire that burns metaphysical things. maybe in that case it would burn selectively.
Quote:
Dwarves: They did not belong in nature, putting them in order was a good thing (they are mountain miners)
i have read of dwarves as protectors of cattle, etc. nevertheless they were often miners. i don't know a great deal about dwarves, but i have gotten the impression that their attitude was protecting from accidents and disease and bringing good luck while avoiding being seen by humans. my memory might deceive me or mix some things up, but weren't the dwarves sometimes feared by humans? but so were faeries and elves, i guess.
Quote:
Gargoyle: Gargoyles weren't evil, so why necropolis? (in fact they weren't even alive, they were just some ugly statues)
meant to scare off demons, so i guess we should put them in human town maybe ?
but maybe in wizard town, because in the game they are not just statues but animations and they could have something to do with elements (water). they were in wizard town in homm3, but without spitting water as they did in homm2. but i would say that what the wizard town is about is unclear to me. as the genies seem out of place in wizard town for some people and dwarves seem out of place in wizard town for some other people, imho we would need some in-game hints about the more precise attitude of the homm wizard town.
Quote:
Behemoth: Demons belong in demon town
what is a demon? could e.g. dwarf be listed as a demon? if dwarves are not big and scary enough, could hydra be a demon?
|
|
B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
|
|
posted October 06, 2004 01:01 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Troll as forest guardian???
Behemoth it's a demon?????
1. Originally, yes. Just like original arabian ghouls are NOT undead, are demons, shapeshifters (!), and yes they eat corpses and hunt travellers.
2. Hell, yes !!
Genies fit to wizard town, deffintely ! Wizards "are known" for enslaving genies and making them work, eh ?
Efreets are, in arabian myths, counterparts of genies. Efreets are associated with fire, and genies - with water. Dao - earth, marid - air (unless I messed it up with genie).
Efreets are quite often described as malicious spirits so I guess they can be in inferno.
Gargoyles aren't really evil, they are more like (tomb) protectors. Yes, protectors. They could be in wizard town, but warlock is a kind of wizard so why not ?
|
|
Kallen
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 06, 2004 01:56 PM |
|
|
Sorry, i know other myths about Trolls.
Quote:
Efreets are, in arabian myths, counterparts of genies. Efreets are associated with fire, and genies - with water. Dao - earth, marid - air (unless I messed it up with genie).
Wrong, Genies are all of this creatures. Efreets are Genies of Fire, Dijnns are Genies of Air, Dao is a Genie of Earth and Marid is Genie of Water.
____________
From the beginnin' to end Losers lose, winners win This is real, we ain't got to pretend The cold world that we in Is full of pressure and pain I thought it would chane
But its stayin' the same
|
|
armageddonic...
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted October 06, 2004 11:02 PM |
|
|
I think trolls would fit well together with elves, both trolls and elves are forest guardians. And all this about trolls eating travellers and all that - it's rubbish. The people behind heroes don't know enough about the troll.
I don't know much about behemoth, I just searched on demons on alltheweb and found a list, where it said that behemoth was the demon of animal strenght.
Sorry, I have no idea what metaphysical means.
All I know about dwarves is that they were mountain miners in norse mythology.
Weren't gargoyles used by romans or something like that? If that's the case, I think they belong in Castle/Haven.
____________
|
|
armageddonic...
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted October 06, 2004 11:08 PM |
|
|
Sorry for double posting, but is editing impossible here?
I just wanted to say that this is not all about my ideas, I want to hear yours
____________
|
|
Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 12:24 AM |
|
|
Well, I like your ideas in this thread 
And I think ur right at some points - the alignment of some creatures was a bit strange sometimes...
Maybe someone really eager could do lots of researches? 
reg
Daddy
____________
|
|
apricane
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 03:37 AM |
|
|
What do you want to research?
This all depends on what the cities are like. I'm from Denmark, so I know a little bit about trolls as well, and it is true that they are protectors of the forest. However, trolls have no societys and cities, such as the elves. Elves are much more civilised.
Trolls do live in nature, but they are more wild. An elf won't eat you because you chop a tree (but he would propably shoot you an arrow in the spine).
If you mean which city in homm 3 (the game i prefer), i would say trolls belong to either fortress or stronghold.
Dwarves have always been connected to mountains, underground and earth. They don't belong to tower (the wizards), and they don't belong to rampart. Neither do they belong to castle. But they are usually good aligned. My shot would be: make a new city for the dwarves. Mountain or something. The elves already have their rampart The humans have their castle and the orcs are happy with their strongholds.
One of the creatures i found misplaced was the pixies in Conflux. They have absolutely nothing to do with any elements. Magi's in tower should have been more powerful, at least level 5. I don't see the connection between nagas and tower as well. Neither the titans. Dwarves were misplaced in rampart. Green dragons shouldnt live in mountains.
Harpies were misplaced in dungeon. Why do they have wings when they cant actually use them anyway. Behemoths were misplaced as well.
____________
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 03:41 PM |
|
|
Quote:
However, trolls have no societys and cities, such as the elves. Elves are much more civilised.
never heard of that except tolkien's modern fantasy. what type of cities did the elves have?
Quote:
If you mean which city in homm 3 (the game i prefer), i would say trolls belong to either fortress or stronghold.
agreement here. what do you think, would it be possible to put rampart and fortress towns into one? the rampart might not care so much about human good and bad concepts, from christian point of view it's a pagan town theme after all. maybe there is too much rotting in the swamp for the elves? maybe the elven town should be like fresh saplings and the troll town should be like rotting swamp? on the other hand, both growth and rotting are part of forest, maybe they can be blended?
Quote:
Dwarves have always been connected to mountains, underground and earth.
there are some exceptions, i am quite certain i have read a fairy tale about dwarves protecting cattle (visiting stables at night). maybe this exception is insignificant, though.
Quote:
My shot would be: make a new city for the dwarves. Mountain or something.
sounds like it would be in direction of single race based towns. why not have it so that you can recruit dwarves from gold and ore mines? they could have an underground miner's village there and could sell their products. if you conquer the mine they would pay ransom as ore or gold. it would be like a settlement that produces a resource, like the homm3 resource generators in towns, except you wouldn't have to explicitly build the resource generator and it wouldn't be a real town. i personally would do the same type of thing with more creatures than just dwarves only.
Quote:
One of the creatures i found misplaced was the pixies in Conflux. They have absolutely nothing to do with any elements.
the pixies should certainly go back to rampart.
Quote:
I don't see the connection between nagas and tower as well.
if the oriental genies are in tower, why not the oriental wise guardian nagas?
Quote:
Behemoths were misplaced as well.
why? i personally find it nice that the behemoths are in stronghold, what other demon would the barbarians serve more willingly? and are we interpreting the word 'demon' too much from point of view of modern christian stereotypes? imho behemoth surely doesn't belong to the pits of hell, it's a monster that should walk freely on earth.
|
|
Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 05:24 PM |
|
|
the last 2 posts are really good imo. nice idas and good stuff from both of you Unfortunate that you dont work for ubi^^
reg
Daddy
____________
|
|
Gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 05:54 PM |
|
|
Quote:
the last 2 posts are really good imo. nice idas and good stuff from both of you Unfortunate that you dont work for ubi^^
thanks, but.. if you say something like that, could you explain why, at least in a few words, otherways people might start to think that you opinion is not subjective.
lol, if some nitpickers here would work for ubi, what do you think the release date would be?
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 06:00 PM |
|
|
Quote:
i have read of dwarves as protectors of cattle, etc. nevertheless they were often miners. i don't know a great deal about dwarves, but i have gotten the impression that their attitude was protecting from accidents and disease and bringing good luck while avoiding being seen by humans.
Now you're confusing Dwarves with Gnomes and Leprecauns 
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
|
|
Daddy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
and why not.
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 06:02 PM |
|
|
Well, what I like most is that you refer to the "history" of this creatures and their origins. (e.g. that dwarf thingy. - referring to legends where it was created to find the fitting place)
And this idea of the structures that give creatures and resources (dwarven mines). its just - new^^
Well, hope you can understand me hehe. Some things are a bit difficult to explain if you haven't the person to speak to in front of you
reg
Daddy
____________
|
|
Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
|
posted October 07, 2004 06:20 PM |
|
|
genies again
I am by no means an expert on genies, but I have done a little research on them.
Quote:
Wrong, Genies are all of this creatures. Efreets are Genies of Fire, Dijnns are Genies of Air, Dao is a Genie of Earth and Marid is Genie of Water.
This is the D&D version of genies, not the Arabian one.
Djinn were spirits of place, not unlike the Greek nymphs/daemons and Latin genii loci. They could be friendly or hostile, depending on the particular one you encountered and how you treated it. They were all associated with fire; one traditon (preserved in the Quran?) is that just as humans were created of earth, djinn were created of smokeless flame. Ifrit, as far as I can tell, just means demons or really nasty djinn.
I don't know where D&D picked up "dao" and "marid," though "marid" sounds like it derives from Latin. The four element system, however, is Greek as far as I know. A lot of our ancient Greek texts are preserved thanks to Muslim civilization, and they may have adapted this philosophical construction into their own, but it comes from an older society.
Fun with linguistics: "Genie" is a French corruption of Arabic "djinni," which is a borrowing of Latin "genius."
[/lecture mode]
 Norwegian info on trolls. Mythology is fascinating stuff.
____________
 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 06:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Now you're confusing Dwarves with Gnomes and Leprecauns
hmm.. this may be the real truth about it, because the fairy tale was translated.
another thing that might be interesting is what would be the relations of gnomes and dwarves?
____________
what is the safest way to pass your time? heroes community -- your posts won't affect almost anything
|
|
Kallen
Known Hero
|
|
posted October 07, 2004 09:06 PM |
|
Edited By: Kallen on 7 Oct 2004
|
Quote:
This is the D&D version of genies, not the Arabian one.
This is not D&D version, but write by A.Sapkowski(also).
May be Dao=Aun(in orginal), that is only difference.
____________
From the beginnin' to end Losers lose, winners win This is real, we ain't got to pretend The cold world that we in Is full of pressure and pain I thought it would chane
But its stayin' the same
|
|
apricane
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 08, 2004 12:29 AM |
|
|
Oh, im so slow, sorry guys (and gals)
I made it appear as if i thought elves had cities. I meant that the elves had societies. If you take a troll and and elf, the elf is the smarter one. Trolls would only form clans i think. Its just a guess though.
Personally i like the idea of race based towns. Elven towns, dwarven kingdoms etc. But yes, it should be possible to merge rampart and fortress. It would then be "deep forest" or something like that. There would be problems with the creatures however- i dont think elves, trolls and basilisks would work well together. They would need some different creatures i think.
The dwarves you talk about is gnomes. They are not the same Gnomes have been in danish folklore for a long time, but i think they are from Ireland originally. Gnomes are closely related to magic, they would belong to a city with mages.
Your idea about recruitting dwarves from mines are not bad at all. It would make perfect sense.
I havent done much research on the nagas. I didnt know they were guardians, and oriental ones as well. They look so.. Kali-alike I thought they were indian creatures.
By the way, thanks daddy
I would suggest the following. If rampart and fortress cannot be combined:
Make a city with the elves (the good side of nature) and one with the trolls (the darker side, though not necessarily evil).
Elven Grove:
City of elves. Good aligned creatures from the forest aid the elves in times of peril. In return, the elves protect the creatures, and the forest they live in. The city would appear somewhat like the elven cities from tolkiens universe, though they would blend more into their natural surroundings.
The city would have strong focus on magic and defence. Perhabs one of the special buildings in such a city would be the Archers tower, which would add a new tower to the city walls (meaning that instead of the standard 3 archers on the walls, there would be 4 or 5).
This city could recruit some of the classic creatures from rampart, such as the:
Centaur
Dendroid
Pegasi
and Unicorn
The city could also recruit:
Pixies
Dryads
Nymphs
Spirits
Elven Archers
and all sorts of good aligned creatures, living in the woods.
The heroes could be Rangers, Enchanters, Tamers, and so on
Wildlands:
This is the "city" of the vile and dangerous beasts from the wildlands. It is similar to stronghold in many ways, but instead of desert and rocklands, the wildlands are part grassland, part hills and part forests. Of course, the moon would shine in the city instead of the sun
The wildlands would focus on attack. Only the strongest beasts survive in these hostile lands.
The city would recruit creatures such as:
Trolls
Worrgs
Were wolfs
Ogres
Orcs
Shades
and other creatures, which are very beast like, or related to dark powers. Maybe even some undeads such as vampires or ghosts. I cant think of any right now, its late and im sleepy
What do you think? Would this fit better?
|
|
armageddonic...
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted October 08, 2004 10:33 AM |
|
|
Sorry, but I would really hate it if it comes one more game with orcs and trolls in the same town. Orc are pure evil, trolls are technically good guys.
But what about this idea?
There are no special towns, you form your own, this way (I partly take this from something somebody else wrote somewhere else on the site, but sorry, can't remember who):
You choose buildings, and most buildings have their creatures. But, some building stop others from being able to be built, like you can't build troll or elf building if you have a sawmill, they would be outraged. Also, it would be like if you have a devil building, you can't have an angel building because they hate each other. For each building you build, some will be denied, and therefore you will end up with the same amount as in the previous games.
The creatures become more unique, like if you bring an army with trolls in it too close to a sawmill, the trolls will destroy the sawmill. This will make the game more strategy-like, because then you would need to be able to build buildings on the adventure map, like if you find a mountain with gold inside, you could bring a bunch of dwarves and make them build a gold mine - a gold mine which eventually gets empty. The mine could also be used as a dwarf dwelling, so you could make own dwellings and towns. This would maybe make it seem more like age of empires and star craft and all of those, but I think it would be fun.
____________
|
|
gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
|
|
posted October 08, 2004 06:59 PM |
|
|
'orc' is elven name for goblin in tolkien and they were cuddly small sized creatures who often lost their tempers and quarreled, unless an elf or human came and made them more cooperative with each other.
now, i think that we might as well use the word 'goblin' instead of 'orc' which should be an elven name invented by tolkien.
Merriam-Webster Online DictionaryQuote:
Etymology: Middle English gobelin, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin gobelinus, ultimately from Greek kobalos rogue : an ugly or grotesque sprite that is mischievous and sometimes evil and malicious
in some sources goblins are almost everything: the little spirits that bring bad luck to sailors (don't remember the name), brownies, leprechauns, dwarves, pixies, etc.
|
| |
|
|
