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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Other Side Feedback
Thread: Other Side Feedback [ This thread is 139 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 (16) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 ]
Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted April 10, 2008 09:29 AM

Pardon my ignorance but that's a rhetorical question, right?
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his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 09:46 AM
Edited by violent_flower at 10:11, 10 Apr 2008.

 If I say my life and the lives of my children are worth more than all of yours put together, then will I receive a QP, BTW they are. I think not, first off I would speed choke you if you ignorantly gave me one, second it is a matter of opinion as to what one life is worth over another; hence the reason why abortion is such an issue.


 NO WITHOUT A DOUBT should he have received that QP. As a matter of fact if you do your research Japan would have never thrown up the white flag and bent over. This comment is how one feels about what one life is worth compared too many and warrants nothing more than a once over and a scroll down. That QP should be remove.

 Remember that all is fair in love and war.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted April 10, 2008 09:50 AM

Quote:
Pardon my ignorance but that's a rhetorical question, right?


Yes, to most people I think However nationalism seems to be a huge factor in some peoples reasoning still! Really hard to relate to that, probably because I have travelled quite a bit. I know that humans are humans no matter the piece of land that they were born upon.

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted April 10, 2008 10:08 AM
Edited by The_Gootch at 10:18, 10 Apr 2008.

Quote:
Would it be ok to drop an A-bomb on Bagdad and kill 200.000 iraqi civilists, just to make sure the hidden terrorists will be hit too, and therefor no more american soldiers in Bagdad would die anymore?


Very different conflicts going on.  Japan and Iraq cannot be compared.  Our involvement in World War II was for all intents and purposes good.  Our involvement in Iraq is bad and never should have happened in the first place.

To answer the question more directly, no, it would not be okay to level Baghdad with a nuclear or even a nonnuclear bombing.  Our historical experience with targeting civilians in war (all sides participated in WW II) shows us it is horrific, morally wrong, and is something that should never happen again.  

Quote:
The americans were innocent before they invaded into Iraq. Now more than 4000 died there already. (about 2000 died in Pearl Harbour btw...). So if such an A-Bomb could save the life of any further american soldier....would it be justified? The terrorists who are guilty for the deaths of all the americans down there are iraqis too......


I think our presence in Iraq is unjustifiable and the terrorists there are there because we invited them to take their shots at us.  My country is illegaly occupying that country and I would like nothing more than a total troop pullout.  

While I'm at it I'd like to see my president impeached and his cabinet tried for war crimes.  I'd like to see mechanisms in place to make sure my country never does this kind of thing again, and billions of dollars invested in repairing the massive damage we've done to the infrastructure of Iraq.  

Edit:  The decision to drop nuclear weapons on Japan was not because of what they did at Pearl Harbor.  The decision was made because Japan was still fighting after Germany had surrendered and our experience fighting them and seeing their bushido code in action told us they would rather die than surrender.  You only need to see how they fought us in Iwo Jima and Tarawa and their use of kamikaze pilots to understand how they were going to react to a full scale invasion of their homeland.  

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 10:11 AM
Edited by violent_flower at 10:18, 10 Apr 2008.

Since everyone can agree that the Japs were the ones who brought themselves into harms way lets put this terms that even the densest of those can understand. If 100,000 men break into my home, invade me, attack me and family and I nuke their dumb *****, no one is going to say, I know that the women and children were at risk and she was just protecting them and herself but jeez she should not have done that. NO! Those who have children and have the natural fight or flight in them would be saying I would have done the same thing.

While the way he stated it might have been a bit harsh to some, the fact is we did what we had to. As far as Iraq is concerned I would not blame them if they drop an A-bomb on us. Nothing warrants us being over their, and when they retaliate against us, they are going to attempt to do it right. I for one will not hold a grudge, what we are doing is so completely wrong and unjustified.  

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Azagal
Azagal


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
posted April 10, 2008 10:18 AM
Edited by Azagal at 10:22, 10 Apr 2008.

Quote:
Yes, to most people I think However nationalism seems to be a huge factor in some peoples reasoning still! Really hard to relate to that, probably because I have travelled quite a bit. I know that humans are humans no matter the piece of land that they were born upon.

Someone got it.

I respect your opinion VF and I think it's only natural for a mother to value the life of her children over the ones of anyone else (however you thinking of yourself as worth more than all of us put together I find very arogant and egoistic but that's another story...). However you are wrong in one point:
Quote:
it is a matter of opinion as to what one life is worth over another

No it isn't.It just isn't. Plain simple fact. In case you actually grasp the full meaning of the word "Life" I think you'll come to understand that the life of a person can't be more valuable than the one of someone else. Humans are humans as Minion already pointed out.

EDIT:

@VF
You don't seem to understand the situation...
Quote:
If 100,000 men break into my home, invade me, attack me and family...blablabla NUKE THEIR SORRY ASSES
Did the 100 000 people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki bomb pearl harbour? Were they involved in that by any way? NO. There goes your justification of bombing innocent civilians.
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his speech but exceeds in his
actions." Confucius

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted April 10, 2008 10:21 AM

VF. You can't obviously see a distinctin between Japanese civilians and attackers, because you make that comparison of 100 000 men invading your  home. By the SAME reasoning, the terrorist attack American civilians. You are also seen as the aggressors. Funny that your reasoning here is exactly the same as theirs.

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 10:36 AM

   AZ I agree with you as far as life is concerned, I don't feel that my life is really more important then yours. I feel that if it comes down to you or me in a slinging in a gun fight, I would have to say at that moment my life would feel more important. However after the fact and the adrenalin went away I would feel awful and morally conflicted for taking anothers life.

When you are invaded and threatened though and start a war you start to break down that worth. You begin to ask yourself if it comes down to it, it will be them and not my children or me. So I don't think that my life is worth more than a black mans, a white womans, or an Asians. I just think that in time of war you are protecting yourself and your country and for a brief moment your life is worth more to you than the life of the mans you are about to take, if only for a split second. I feel that this is a natural response and until you are faced with it you can't imagine how that feels.

 If someone molested my daughter or something to that effect, at that very moment their life is now mine and I no longer look at them as a human, only as an enemy. I will kill them without thinking twice and feel no remorse

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HoMaM
HoMaM


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 10, 2008 11:42 AM

Quote:
 If I say my life and the lives of my children are worth more than all of yours put together, then will I receive a QP, BTW they are. I think not, first off I would speed choke you if you ignorantly gave me one, second it is a matter of opinion as to what one life is worth over another; hence the reason why abortion is such an issue.


 NO WITHOUT A DOUBT should he have received that QP. As a matter of fact if you do your research Japan would have never thrown up the white flag and bent over. This comment is how one feels about what one life is worth compared too many and warrants nothing more than a once over and a scroll down. That QP should be remove.

 Remember that all is fair in love and war.



Your example isn't right.You put the lives of your children that of course are worth for you,more not from our lives only but i believe from the whole world.I know it from my mom.That's natural love beyond the individual.
But you think it's the same, saying a person, a young person who doesn't even knew the americans that lost their lives in the war before 60 years and it was war and his knowledge about war and specifically WW2 are only historical.Is it the same thing?Is it ok if i tell that greeks should had made a genocide to Turks for example if this genocide would save a simple greek life?Is it the same or you think his love to the americans who lost their lives in Pearl Harbor is greater than yours love to your children?
And besides all this guy praised the nucs.He may want to throw nucs in all over the world if he thinks with that way will save a simply american life.What a patriot.

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 12:16 PM

Quote:
VF. You can't obviously see a distinction between Japanese civilians and attackers, because you make that comparison of 100 000 men invading your  home.


 Remember that those civilians, including children, were as dangerous as the armed soldiers in some cases. Not by choice but nonetheless were a threat as well. And before all the hammer heads come out, not all of them were.  I understand the difference between the attackers and the civilians. Not saying the situation was not sad but it was a war and unfortunately the manuals for such wars get skewed. Not to mention the will to not surrender was so strong and they believed in what they were fighting for so much that civilians would take their own lives to keep from surrendering. Our soldiers took pity on innocent civilian life during this time as well.

   



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HoMaM
HoMaM


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 10, 2008 12:17 PM

Quote:
When you are invaded and threatened though and start a war you start to break down that worth. You begin to ask yourself if it comes down to it, it will be them and not my children or me. So I don't think that my life is worth more than a black mans, a white womans, or an Asians. I just think that in time of war you are protecting yourself and your country and for a brief moment your life is worth more to you than the life of the mans you are about to take, if only for a split second. I feel that this is a natural response and until you are faced with it you can't imagine how that feels.


I like your thinking here.Did for example japanese civilians who suffered from the nucs invade you or treatened you aswell?No.
But neither do you personally invade so many other countries.You didn't invade in Korea, you didn't invade in Vietnam, you didn't invade in Serbia, you didn't invade in Iraq(2 times) you didn't invade to Afghanistan you didn't invade to..etc.It wasn't your choice and i believe it of course you didn't want this wars, many of them your country started.
So with your thinking someone of these countries your nation(and i say nation and not government bc you have a democracy and as we know in democracy the nation,the citizens are the government in a way but that's other discussion)invaded should take (now i'm coming to binabik's phrase)......100.000 for 1 .........about every single's american life.
Hey VF neither japanese citizens chose to bombed you but you bombed them.And in military Japan there wasn't democracy,only a bunch of psycho generals while you have a "democracy" and chose to drop your air presents.Presents like little boy who little boy punishes till today japanese people who they borned last fwe years.Are these kids guilty?Or they pay for their ancestors mistakes(?)

It's not a way of thinking  binabik's phrase neither anyone who gave him a fair.Such phrases praise terrible actions and mistakes of the past and lead to more and more extreme thoughts and actions.


A picture of Hiroshima.I could eaily find worse pictures than this with human bodies or what they left from them but i thought it wouldn't right to upload such pics here.

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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 12:32 PM

No I would not have chosen personally to invade Iraq or other countries that i can think of as well. All I was saying in regard to BINK was what he feels a life is worth and what you feel one is worth may be different. Big deal lets leave it at that.

 It did not warrant a QP. The one who gave the go ahead to drop the bomb is the one that has to live with that decision. I did not make the order nor did I say that I support the decisions that our country has always made. The point again was your life is worth whatever it is worth to you and freaking Tiny Tims life is worth whatever it is to him. No one is right nor wrong it is all opinion.  
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HoMaM
HoMaM


Known Hero
Sailor of the open seas
posted April 10, 2008 01:09 PM

Quote:
No I would not have chosen personally to invade Iraq or other countries that i can think of as well. All I was saying in regard to BINK was what he feels a life is worth and what you feel one is worth may be different. Big deal lets leave it at that.

 It did not warrant a QP. The one who gave the go ahead to drop the bomb is the one that has to live with that decision. I did not make the order nor did I say that I support the decisions that our country has always made. The point again was your life is worth whatever it is worth to you and freaking Tiny Tims life is worth whatever it is to him. No one is right nor wrong it is all opinion.  


No it doesn't go that way in my opinion.Life is life and only with this way can be mentioned.Life isn't statistic number neither dollars to make such mathematics thoughts.
It's true that ppl feels in different a life.But it's wrong, life is the most precious we have and that's the same for all ppl.When someone gives his life for an ideal for example like freedom he turns automatically to a hero.That's why call them heroes.Because they were willing to lose their greatest given.

But i think none of us have really realized what "thing" we deal here. It's life VF.It's not a Tv show i may like it more than you or he than she.It's life and all people in general i want to believe they see life as it has to be.I said in general bc there are many who kill someone for 10 bucks or other who kill thousands of people for much more money.But i won't speak about them.These are from other story. But if we stop thinking of life like the greatest value a value that we have nothing to discuss or nagotiate about it what makes us different from animals then?

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted April 10, 2008 01:56 PM

Quote:
Quote:
No one is right nor wrong it is all opinion.  


No it doesn't go that way in my opinion.

So what you're saying essentially is that in your opinion, it is not a matter of opinion.  Sounds like a contradiction (in my opinion).
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 02:06 PM

    First off we are all animals and exhibit animalistic behaviors on more of a constant basis then you may think. For instance we have laws that separate us from animals and the ability, in some cases to understand the difference between right and wrong but take infidelity for instance. My research shows that in the animal world there is only one that actually has a "should" mate and does not procreate outside that relationship. It is a worm that lives in the gills of a whale and is permanently attached to its partner by force.

We by nature are not meant to have just one mate in our life it is not natural. Some can do it and other can not, why? Because we are animals and a man humping a woman looks pretty similar to a dog humping a fire hydrant now doesn't it (or a woman for that matter).

And to be even clearer about things, the comment I have to yours about all life being equal and a life is a life, well that is just a load of crap. A person who rapes and kills another because he gets off on it is not human to me and nor to the eyes of the law in most states. Maybe that person is ill or insane but nonetheless the is for the court to decide, they are less than human in my book. In war innocent lives are taken and the leaders that have to make choices in regard to this need to be held accountable when wrong decisions are made (Bush would be a prime example of this.)

If my son was fighting in a war and it was him and another mothers child and they were at a stand off and my son killed him, I would feel awful for that mother and child. On the same note lets not sugar coats things for the sake of looking all moral and upstanding on here. I would be sad for them but happy it was not my child. So maybe deep down I feel his life is worth more because it is worth more to me. And to BINK he feels an American life is worth more than 100,000 Japs, again his opinion.      

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted April 10, 2008 02:18 PM
Edited by angelito at 14:19, 10 Apr 2008.

Quote:
If someone molested my daughter or something to that effect, at that very moment their life is now mine and I no longer look at them as a human, only as an enemy. I will kill them without thinking twice and feel no remorse
How very true! But the case we are talking about is: 2 french (nation was chosen randomly!) guys molest your daughter. Now u drop a bomb on Paris. Is that ok? "If this bomb on Paris saved 1 baby from being molested by a french, this bomb was ok!" Is this statement justified?
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 02:23 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 14:25, 10 Apr 2008.

  No I don't personally don't feel that way. However if innocent people were protecting him and keeping me from getting to him I would drop a bomb on their ***. If they agreed and did not protest what he had done I would drop a bomb on their ***. But again this is about a -QP so lets just focus on that. It was his statement dumb or not he was not personally attacking anyone on here so there should be no -QP.  
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted April 10, 2008 02:30 PM

Penalty was obviously not given coz of personal insult, but for a racistic statement.
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 02:40 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 14:56, 10 Apr 2008.

Well I'm certainly not going to argue any further on his behalf. But thanks for clarifying.

Ok nevermind, I'am...
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violent_flower
violent_flower


Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
posted April 10, 2008 02:55 PM
Edited by violent_flower at 15:04, 10 Apr 2008.

BIN:
Quote:
What I'm saying is that ALL the American soldiers were innocent, not just some.


BIN:
Quote:
ALL of the Americans were innocent. Japan attacked the US, so every single American life lost was Japans fault. If dropping the bomb killed 100,000 Japanese and saved one American life, then it was worth it.


What he is saying is in this particular incident because Americans were innocent (not just because they were Americans) and Japan attacked us that the saving of one American life was worth more then 100,000 Japanese. He does not say the Japs in general are less worthy than us because they are Japs. Someone needs to reevaluate what he said again.  

Pulled from Websters;
 
Racist:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race  

Thus making his comment none racial and it needs to be fixed..

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