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TheDeath
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posted June 30, 2009 05:32 PM |
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William, the difference is, that I don't say "silence the fans" because I get pissed off. Why would anyone else silence mvass then because he "pissed off the fans"? Doesn't seem very fair.
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Azagal
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posted June 30, 2009 05:39 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:42, 30 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
If I was deliberately messing with people, I would be doing it on purpose. I wasn't. Some people overreacted to my opinion. That's all. I saw that some people disagreed with my opinion, but I did not post with the intent to anger them.
Are you seriously exspecting anyone to believe you?
You see that people get emotional when you say you don't like his music. Your next thought: "Oh actually I do not only "not like" his music as I posted, I also believe it belongs in the trash can" which made people angry/disappointed in you.
Are you honestly trying to tell me that you didn't see that people "reacted strongly" (don't give me "disagree"... come on) to you insightful addition to the discussion? But it doesn't stop here oh no...
After seeing that people got angry/disapointed, you compare him to a monkey. You can't tell me you don't see how you expressed you dislike for Jackson "stronger" (not to say deliberatly offensive) in every freakin post of yours. You can't be that blind/naive can you? Just accept it that you were lighting fires for your ammusement (and if not for your ammusement the end of the line is you pissed people off and there was no way you
a) didn't notice it and
b) didn't do it on purpose.
Why else you repeatedly go up a level in your comments about how much Jackson is trash? Can you just tell me that? I don't give me that pathetic "it was my opinion" excuse.
EDIT:
Death don't be a TheMoron mvass wasn't silenced because he wasn't a fan but because he posted to ruin a thread (= his post deliberately offended people). Oh and a history of other things he did in the OSM the Jackson thread was simply the drop that was too much.
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 05:43 PM |
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If you don't believe me, I don't see why I should bother trying to convince you. I swear that making people mad was not the purpose of those posts. That is all.
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Why else you repeatedly go up a level in your comments about how much Jackson is trash?
Because I saw that people were calling his music a cultural achievement.
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Azagal
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posted June 30, 2009 05:49 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 17:53, 30 Jun 2009.
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You don't get me. Even if you didn't do it on purpose you still continued insulting them (my point is there is no way you could not have seen that you were aggrevating them).
Oh so you thought that by degrading Jackson more in every post of yours you were going to convince people that his music wasn't an cultural achievement? Are you serious with that reply? That was your idea?
Even if you're not lying and you didn't do it to piss off people you still can't tell me that insulting Jackson more and more is in any way a intelligent way to a) bring a point across and b) is not aggrevating people.
Btw what simply prevented you from not posting? I read lots of threads in the OSM where I see you and TheDeath post stuff I find completely moronic but why would I ruin the fun for you? Sure I have opinions but once in a while it's better to let things be... just a thought.
EDIT: Don't missunderstand me I'm not saying this one action is enough for a silence I'm just saying I find it wrong of you to deny that you were wrong in doing what you did.
You didn't just post your opinion you did it in a way to piss people off. And after seeing how you pissed them off you didn't stop you actually enhanced your insults... how is that ok? Just admit you're wrong for crying out loud.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 05:57 PM |
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Quote:
Oh so you thought that by degrading Jackson more in every post of yours you were going to convince people that his music wasn't an cultural achievement?
Look, I called him a monkey once. That was a short statement of my opinion. Then I went on to talk about how his music wasn't a cultural achievement.
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Even if you're not lying and you didn't do it to piss off people you still can't tell me that insulting Jackson more and more is in any way a intelligent way to a) bring a point across and b) is not aggrevating people.
True. I'm not known for my good diplomatic skills.
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Btw what simply prevented you from not posting?
If I have an opinion, I want to express it. It's that simple.
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 06:06 PM |
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The monkey is racist
Are you one of those people who sees racism everywhere? It was not racist. I think Eminem (who is white) is a monkey too.
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POP cultural (and therefore a cultural achievement)
Pop culture and real culture are entirely different (and often opposed) things. Real culture changes slowly, whereas pop culture changes every year. And many of the "pop cultured" are opposed to real culture, and vice versa.
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DagothGares
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posted June 30, 2009 06:09 PM |
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Arts are a form of culture...
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angelito
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posted June 30, 2009 06:09 PM |
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And what was the thread about?
As I told you in my HCM, I didn't say anything in this particular thread when you just stated your opinion.
But instead of keeping away from this thread afterwards, when you saw (of course except your OSM twin) everybody had a different opinion about MJ, you started to annoy people with posts how bad MJ was, that his music was crap, all people who worhsiped him have no clue about REAL music etc...
And THIS had nothing to do with your opinion (you posted it already: "I didn't like his music!"), but just to get again a "discussion" going. Exactly the way theDeath does it. 95% of the time he doesn't state his opinion refering to a topic, but rather tries to find flaws in posts of other members.
And this is what I won't accept any longer in the OSM. You drove away so many members from the OSM with that kind of behaviour, so the line is crossed now.
I tell it especially to you two (Mvass and TheDeath):
If you continue posting in the OSM just to have a quarrel and a quote war going instead of posting YOUR OWN opinion to the topic, I will use the silence function without any warning in the future.
It's sad if you both still do not see the wrong behaviour, but for me, the majority of the members are more worth than 2 single quarrel seekers.
And one more thing: Comparing Johann Sebastian Bach with Michael Jackson is the same as comparing an SUV with a Ferrari, and then stating: "The Ferarri is no real car because he has no trailer hitch!"
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pandora
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posted June 30, 2009 06:09 PM |
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I gave you the benefit of the doubt in that you weren't meaning to call him a monkey in any racist fashion - but I do know people who wouldn't think twice before letting you know just what they think of a comment like that...
I personally don't think that saying the thread was for people who "worship" Michael Jackson was at all accurate, I simply respect and admire his talent and his incredible contribution to music and dance.
If you don't recognize that, fine. I would think most people here see you as a wholly left-brained individual anyways.
The situation only became a problem when you wouldn't respect that you were being asked to stop.
If you want to believe that you were silenced because you don't like Michael Jackson, well I guess you're just going to think what you think...But the simple fact is that you were being offensive to some people, regardless of whether you think their feelings have merit - you should have just dropped it after being asked, instead you went on and on.
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 06:20 PM |
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Dagoth:
True, but I don't think his music was artistic at all.
Angelito:
So, what, you don't think the OSM should have discussions? I think that's what the OSM is for. It would be extremely boring if everyone just expressed their opinions and then left it at that.
If you have a problem with my posting habits, you have three options: penalise me whenever I do something you don't like, ban me from other people's OSM threads, or just bear it. All three are valid options. I leave it to you to choose between them. Although I wouldn't advise you to make this choice for the rest of the community - maybe someone actually likes to read my debates.
Pan:
Quote:
The situation only became a problem when you wouldn't respect that you were being asked to stop.
If you look at my posts, after Angelito's warning I no longer called him a monkey, and toned down my language. I just started talking about why his music wasn't a cultural achievement.
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angelito
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posted June 30, 2009 06:29 PM |
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Quote:
Angelito:
So, what, you don't think the OSM should have discussions? I think that's what the OSM is for. It would be extremely boring if everyone just expressed their opinions and then left it at that.
Wrong idea. Not EVERY thread in the OSM is meant for discussion. This is what you fail to see...
Quote:
If you have a problem with my posting habits, you have three options: penalise me whenever I do something you don't like, ban me from other people's OSM threads, or just bear it. All three are valid options. I leave it to you to choose between them.
You forgot the silence options, which is much more effective in such cases I think 
Quote:
Although I wouldn't advise you to make this choice for the rest of the community - maybe someone actually likes to read my debates.
Exactly....someone (TheDeath), but the majority not.
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TheDeath
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posted June 30, 2009 06:32 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 18:33, 30 Jun 2009.
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Quote:
Right. The monkey is racist and offensive
I'm tired of favoritism.
How about we ban/silence everyone who says Bush was a monkey? That's probably half of the HC users.
I even know the mod response from this. It was "Bush is not a member of HC, so this is not breaching the CoC" or something like that.
Well Jackson isn't either.
And I don't think he was a monkey at all. Just being neutral.
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Arts are a form of culture...
No it's not. Art can be individualistic.
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 06:33 PM |
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Quote:
Not EVERY thread in the OSM is meant for discussion.
It is possible to discuss any subject. If the thread creator doesn't want a discussion, then he/she should specify that in the first post. If not, it's open season. 
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You forgot the silence options, which is much more effective in such cases I think
But that stops me from posting anywhere in HC, not just in the "problem spot". If your right eye causes you to sin, you don't cut your head off.
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Exactly....someone (TheDeath), but the majority not.
I recall Dagoth saying he enjoys reading some of them. And it doesn't matter to me. As long as there is someone to discuss with, that is enough.
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angelito
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posted June 30, 2009 06:37 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Right. The monkey is racist and offensive
I'm tired of favoritism.
Right, that's why we will handle the OSM a bit different from now on 
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TheDeath
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posted June 30, 2009 06:37 PM |
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So we can't say anymore that Bush is a monkey or make pictures comparing him to a monkey? 
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TheDeath
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posted June 30, 2009 06:40 PM |
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I think he meant that something that gets changed or forgotten in a few decades isn't part of culture. Culture needs to stand against the test of time. Tradition even more.
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mvassilev
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posted June 30, 2009 06:40 PM |
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Pop culture will be completely different in 20 years. Real culture will have hardly changed at all.
Edit: Same-time post with TheDeath (and similar content too!). 
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pandora
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posted June 30, 2009 06:41 PM |
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I think that all you guys need to figure out is that debating is fine - sometimes, but not always.
It’s always fair to have an opinion, but you do not always have to beat people over the head with it.
HC is for everyone, when you see that people are just wishing to talk about something without it becoming a flame fest or massive debate on issues - why can't you just let it alone?
Obviously what happened in that thread was not to start an interesting dialogue between members - if you were reading the replies that you got back, you would see that all you were doing is upsetting people and disrupting the thread. So why continue then, if not simply to provoke?
You want your right to discuss things to be protected - but that doesn't mean that you should have the right to post as you will at the expense of any other members.
To me it all comes down to respect - you guys need to learn to respect each other, and if you can't do that at least try to respect the forum.
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TheDeath
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posted June 30, 2009 06:44 PM |
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To be honest I do respect the people who disagree with me and I never said that they have to be silenced, or delete their posts, or whatever. Even if they repeat the same things over and over. And I have nothing against MJ, for me, he was a bit above other pop stars. He didn't die at the peak of his career.
What I can't understand and argue about is people who NOW say that they can't live without Jackson and his older albums... but they wouldn't give a **** if he was still alive and not making any music anymore.
That's why it doesn't make sense to me and get a bit pissed off about those "worshiping" fanboys. (mind you, these are extreme fanboys).
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angelito
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posted June 30, 2009 06:46 PM |
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Quote:
That's why it doesn't make sense to me and get a bit pissed off about those "worshiping" fanboys. (mind you, these are extreme fanboys).
You ever heard of the saying: "You recognize the value of someone/somehting when he/it is NOT present anymore"?
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