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| Thread: how to attack special bildings effectively? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 20, 2005 04:41 AM |
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The thing I like about crypt fighing is the randomness. Crypts are week1 targets and thats really the only time they are dangerous, so unless you are prepared to sacrifice a scout, you dont know what you are going to get  The same cant be said for stores, banks, tresuries, stockpiles, grifcons, hives etc.
The other thing is the typical army week1. I dont remember ever starting with 34 archers, of course it wont happen unless you get Valeska, same with 80 goblins, 120 trogs etc. If that was your typical starting army then there would be no strategy taking crypts. It would be insanely easy
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Myctteakyshd
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 20, 2005 05:27 PM |
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1. Yes, on random maps, there wonīt occure crypts on lava terrain.
2. No, u canīt edit any special buildings (crypts, caches, stores, banks, cons, hives, topes) in the editor. Itīs random with specific percentages.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 20, 2005 05:47 PM |
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Quote:
And some questions I posed to Tigris via email and have not been as yet answered (I would really appreciate your sharing of knowledge):
1) Is it true that on lava terrain crypts cannot occur on random maps?
2) Is it possible for me to change the map with map editor and more paricularly change the crypt's properties so that it is a full crypt?
Sorry i haven't check my mail yet.Prolly won't have time to answer till friday.Work always cames first.Especially when you are stranded in the middle of nowhere for one week.LOL
I will reply as soon as possible
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted April 21, 2005 02:33 PM |
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Inferno Troops Attack Medusa Stores - Week 1
I know most of you find that very easy, but I also think that this thread can be useful for some guys (among them me as well). As a matter of fact, before getting involved with this thread I had played 4-6 times in my life with Inferno and I must admit that this speculation the last few days I made with Inferno made me give it more respect. Anyway, I speak too much. Here is my new thread:
Inferno Troops Attack Medusa Stores - Week 1
Angelito thanks for the clarifications.
Tigris, there is no problem anymore. You can freely delete my mail. I found out pretty much what I was asking you on that mail. Thank you anyway.
Regards,
- Dimis -
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 21, 2005 03:12 PM |
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Nice explanation for such a store fight...
Interesting fact for those of us who didnīt know, related to this comment of you:
Efreet attack lower-right stack of Medusas.
Medusas retaliate and Efreet turn to stone. Ironically, I receive a morale bonus on my stoned stack. So morale goes wasted!
Your moral is not wasted! This unit has still the possibility to do his extra turn. You only have to cast cure or dispel in the same round, and then the unit gets his extra turn coz of moral bonus. Only for those who didnīt know....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 22, 2005 08:36 PM |
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nice work on the dusa tactic dimis :up:
the dangeourous part is when you encounter only medusas in a store and no queens.So when you peek inside, you'll see lots of guards, but when you enter you might find a min of 4 dusas up to a max of 8.This would mean certain defeat.
@tip:i've noticed a nice thing when fighting a utopia:When right clicking on it you'll see how many reds/greens/golds/blacks are inside.But this only gives an aproximate iddea of what guards are inside.
E.G. few golds,few blaks, several greens, several reds.
8 topias out of 10 you'll get this i guess.What does this tell you? not that much....
you might have 1 black and 2 golds or you could have 3 blacks and 4 golds all the same.
But in order to take full advantage of peeking into the topia, simply move the cursor over it and you'll see a message written on the bottom of the screen:
E.G. Dragon utopia guarded by pack of creatures
combine this info with the other part and you'll know for sure how many dragons you'll have to face.
the smallest tpoe will only have pack dragons guards whereas a bigger one will have lots 
hope this helps
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted April 22, 2005 11:40 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
... U need some kind of better technique to make them freeze again......
Xarfax1
...u will only be attacked by the last stack...
Thats exactly what i meant with "again". To enlarge this u start to reduce the last stack first, then the second last and so on..so that the damage uve to take is very low. And as theyve only speed 3 u can make them trying to run around the hydra ..try it thats the most fun part .
Xarfax1
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted May 06, 2005 05:02 PM |
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Edited By: dimis on 22 Oct 2005
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A survey on Imp Caches
~~~~~~ Original Post: 6 May 2005 ~~~~~~
Quote:
Your moral is not wasted! This unit has still the possibility to do his extra turn. You only have to cast cure or dispel in the same round, and then the unit gets his extra turn coz of moral bonus. Only for those who didn't know....
Angelito thx for pointing out my omission on that one. I beieve I 've fixed that now.
Quote:
the dangeourous part is when you encounter only medusas in a store and no queens.So when you peek inside, you'll see lots of guards, but when you enter you might find a min of 4 dusas up to a max of 8.This would mean certain defeat.
@tip:i've noticed a nice thing when fighting a utopia:When right clicking on it you'll see how many reds/greens/golds/blacks are inside.But this only gives an aproximate iddea of what guards are inside.
E.G. few golds,few blaks, several greens, several reds.
Tigris thx for the tips since I thought it was obvious you have to right-click the building in order to have a better idea of the troops inside the building. For that reason, I even included a picture of the message that appears by right-clicking the building. Perhaps I have to rephrase my sentences so that it is crystal-clear!
---------------------------------------------------
Now, getting along with the purpose of this thread, on this link (~920kB) I have uploaded a document which hopefully with the contribution of other players can evolve to a survey on Imp Caches with all different towns. Moreover, I 'll try to set up something like that for other special buildings as well. Till now (6 May 2005) the document contains strategies for Inferno troops against all possible Imp Caches.
Regards,
- Dimis -
P.S.: One question to those players that tend to play with Inferno. "What building do you prefer to build on the first week on a rich map? Is it the Devils or the Castle?" (The answer to the above question does not have to do with the solutions proposed on the above link, but I would like to learn the answer for my self since as I have stated before I didn't use to play with Inferno till some weeks ago! )
P.S.2: In order to view the document I suggest you have Adobe Acrobat Reader 7.0.
~~~~~~~~~~~~ End Of Original Post ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Log File:
Edit #01: 17 June 2005. That day I realized I had some mistakes on the first version of the above document. Since then, I had a warning on this post describing (roughly) the mistakes.
Edit #02: 23 October 2005. Today, I believe I 've made all the necessary corrections needed in the above document. Unfortunately, I haven't yet spent some more time so as to fill some of the (still many  ) missing parts on the above document. Hopefully, in time, this will happen.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted June 17, 2005 05:21 PM |
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Properties of Special Buildings
I think it's me again with my n00bish questions...
Can someone give me some info for the following:
1)
a) What are all possible stacks that can arise on each special building (conservatories , hives, treasuries, stores, etc)? For example, if I am not mistaken, on caches one can face stacks of 20, 30, 40 and 60. Nothing else.
b) What are the possible situations for the crypts?
2) Do upgraded troops appear on all the above numbers on stacks that arise on each building?
3) Is it 50-50 for a building (other than crypt) to contain upgraded troops or not? As far as caches are concerned I know it is and I 'll give you shortly my experiments.
4) Do you know the probabilities that the above stacks have when generating a map?
Thank you all in advance,
Dimis
P.S.: By the way, I 've located 2 mistakes in the document of my previous post. I hope I 'll find some time shortly to fix this up. You can refer to my mistakes on the edit I made on my previous post. I just mention it here since for the time being some things that are written on that document are inaccurate.
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted June 17, 2005 10:52 PM |
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There is a 50% chance for every building with morale to get an upgraded stack in the left down corner.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted June 19, 2005 02:34 AM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by angelito at 19:11, 11 Nov 2009.
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Great Feedback Xarfax
Thank you, thank you, and again thank you Xarfax! It was really very useful info to me.
However, I encourage you all to have a look on this (~120kB) one. I would appreciate your feedback or your thoughts.
By the way, where did you find that useful table Xarfax? Was it from experimental study that you made?
Thanks again man
Regards,
Dimis
EDIT: I had some typos in one column in table 3. I believe the document is ok now. END OF EDIT.
Edit by angelito
For the matter of fact it lacks a bit of good quality posts in the library the last times, i gave a red star for your good work, even if i normaly try to avoid giving stars to "links" instead of posts, i recognized your will to improve the library with some very good posts. Keep the good work going
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 19, 2005 06:58 PM |
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These infos about the special buildings are all viewable in the mapeditor. Just rightclick a building and click on "whatīs this?". Then u get all infos. Some of the infos u get out of the editor are wrong though (conservatory infos for example)
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted June 20, 2005 12:39 PM |
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Edited By: dimis on 20 Jun 2005
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I see. Thank you Angelito. It seems that within the last 2 posts I learned a lot about the game (and the mapeditor). However, if these numbers come out from 3DO I am going to be sceptical even more, because of ... the "tradition" it has when providing info!
Thank you both again,
Dimis
EDIT - 20 June 2005:
To Angelito:
Ooops. I was uploading a new version on the above document where I re-arranged some figures in order to make it more easily readable. Then, I came over here to check out if link was ok and I realized you gave it a red star. Thank you for that, although I think the work on that part is not quite finished yet!
Quote:
Edit by angelito
For the matter of fact it lacks a bit of good quality posts in the library the last times, i gave a red star for your good work, even if i normaly try to avoid giving stars to "links" instead of posts, i recognized your will to improve the library with some very good posts. Keep the good work going
I can understand your dislike on links Angelito but perhaps there are some things I don't know how to do when writing posts. For example, the thing I need mostly is a way (BB-code, etc?) of making tables, so that my writing is clearer. Does there exist a command that supports that option?
More on that, I can typeset math more clearly on my home pc while I am pretty sure there is no straightforward way for that when posting. However, I believe that this won't be much of a problem if I can have tables with a command.
Finally, aren't pictures actually links? So, if someone deletes a picture, that one won't be viewable here in HeroesCommunity?
Anyway, I 'll try to post in the future, instead of making links. Do you want me to re-edit the above post and try not to have links? It won't be much of a problem to me, but since you gave it a star, and hence the post is not only mine anymore, I think your opinion is what actually counts! If yes, give me some time till weekend, when I will have more time to make the necessary edits and upload to my account the required pictures.
Be well!
END OF EDIT.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted June 20, 2005 05:11 PM |
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No, u donīt have to edit it now.
Just for the future, if you have plans to make more of such investigations, it would be better to post "pics", so all people could see them here. As far as i know, some people donīt have access to reach any sites they wont, so they probably canīt get to your links...thatīs why..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted June 25, 2005 03:44 PM |
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Edited By: dimis on 25 Jun 2005
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Dwarven Treasuries
Whenever someone wins a Full Dwarven Treasury he acquires 10 Crystal plus 7500 gold. Both amounts are very welcome, especially on maps that are not so full of resources (like Jebus  ).
I won't mind classifying all the cases right now (according to the messages the user reads on screen) but I will do so on a subsequent edit of this post.
Castle Troops (25 June 2005):
I 'll give you an example of the tactics I use with Castle troops in order to conquer a Full Dwarven Treasury early week 3 with the following assumptions:
* You had to go for cavaliers on week 1.
* You tried to go for castle but unfortunately you were able to build only citadel on week 1.
* Moreover, Archers' tower was not built during the first week.
* Finally, you haven't built your Portal of Glory yet!
As for the required spells, basically only Haste is mandatory but it would be good to know Cure and/or Shield-Stone Skin.
As a result, you possess only 9 Champions on week 3 and at least 27 Archers plus 9 Monks. So, this is going to be the army I 'll use. I will use Orrin (level 1) as hero but with stats slightly boosted: 4/4/1/1, which I believe is not a problem at all (especially if you use Orrin as main ). This is the initial placement of troops before entering a Treasury:
9 Champs - 1P - 1P - 27 Archers - 1P - 9 Monks - 1P,
where 1P stands for 1 Pikeman.
Round 1:
Alright then, this is how battlefield looks like on the beginning of the first round:
Cast Haste on Pikemen that are left to your Archers stack.
Attack upgraded Dwarves with your Champions and Archers.
Move hasted Pikeman towards upper-left stack of Dwarves.
Attack with your Monks the upper left stack of Dwarves.
If there is any upgraded Dwarf left alive, he will attack you Monks and die from retaliation.
Wait with your first stack of Pikeman and place the other two as it is shown in the next picture (look where they died!).
Rest of Dwarves move and kill fodders except (usually) the one you waited.
If that Pikeman is still alive, try to attract Dwarves attention towards one end of the battlefield (check subsequent pictures). Always remember the order the dwarves play!
Just a small note: A more interesting manipulation of your fodders is the following: Wait with your first Pikeman and then place all Pikemen in a line, meaning place the Pikeman that waited together with the lower Pikeman on the hexes next (right) to your middle right fodder. That way, almost 99,5% of the time at least one fodder will remain alive for next round.
Round 2:
Champions attack upper left stack of Dwarves. Doesn't matter if not all of them killed, they will die from retaliation. Move Archers and Monks towards left or upper-left. Use your remaining Pikeman to attract the attention of the rest Dwarves.
Dwarves move/attack and now we reach a situation like the one shown in the next picture.
Eound 3:
Champions wait. Archers and Monks attack the stack that is near them.
Dwarves make their moves.
Champions attack middle stack.
Round 4:
Since the upper stack of Dwarves did not receive a morale bonus, you don't have to attack it right now. Just find a hex that it can reach your Champions, that is at least 5 hexes away from your shooters and also 9 hexes (if possible) away from the stack of 30 Dwarves. The mouse indicates a hex like that:
Move Champions on the hex previously discussed and use your range shooters to attack the only stack of 30 Dwarves.
Dwarves move but again nothing bad can happen.
Round 5:
Attack with your Champions the stack that has the most creatures and use your range shooters to kill the other stack.
Game Over: After this battle is over you are going to receive 10 Crystal and 7500 gold. I think it will be much easier now to build a Portal of Glory! Not to mention those 3000 points of experience your hero received.
Note on terrain: I suggest you use Pikemen when fighting in grass as shown above. That way, you will increase your chances to receive a morale bonus on your fighting creatures and as a result manage even easier the battle. However, on a neutral terrain, you may as well use other troops as fodders, since on that terrain Dwarves are very slow creatures and morale bonuses can not harm you that much.
Angel's Note: Finally, if you want these money for making the Upg. Portal of Glory, I suggest you carry with you 1 Angel on the second slot (where 1 Pikeman waited on 1st turn) so as to attract Dwarves' attention for a longer time and as a result get on with the battle easier. Just remember on the first round not to attack Dwarves. Simply sustain damage and keep them far away from your shooters.
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted October 23, 2005 04:58 AM |
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Oh, I love these kind of posts.
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted November 01, 2005 02:58 PM |
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Here's my contibution to the thread.
Hero with 5, 6, 1, 1 primary stats, and cure and shield spell, with also advanced armorer and offense fighting smallest conservatory with an angel and 6 pikes.
Probably wont happen that often in a real game, but hey, could happen. 
Thanks to angelito for the tips.
http://rapidshare.de/files/7043573/qc-con1angel.rar.html - 1.001kb RAR file, 5.867kb .mov file
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted November 02, 2005 06:25 PM |
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 02, 2005 07:47 PM |
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On 100% it is no big deal Neb (well known "hydra-trick"). But most of the games are played on 130% these days. And week 1 u only have normal hydras. Try this out...take all units u could prolly have in week 1 with fortress, use native terrain and make a movie.
It is doable.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted November 02, 2005 08:20 PM |
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Edited By: Nebuka on 2 Nov 2005
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It's for fixers that got lucky in camp.
Will try that what you wrote, but don't think I am capable of doing it.
EDIT: Well, I'll be damned. Did it with some small victims. Had at start Bron, so 8 basilisks in fight.
Though, this would be active maker fight.
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