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| Thread: Philosophy question over a glass of beer anyone? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Leo_Lion
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The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted January 18, 2005 08:44 PM |
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Good question, RealDeal. Have a pint of beer, buddy!
Quote:
What if THIS, was the life after death? What if i'm already in it?
I agree with McWilliams about a few things regarding this issue. Such as death being a "portal", where your memory is neither erased, nor overwritten. I also agree that memories from former lives can be regained, despite the process of reincarnation. I have to point out that I agree with these ideas because, as I pointed out in earlier Posts, I believe that every person possesses an Infinite Soul that enters this "reality" in order to experience It's existence. Following this, I not only believe that death is a "portal", but that birth is one as well! 
To answer RealDeal's question, I imagine my current life as being an "interlude" to my actual existence. This means that while I am here on earth, I am really spending time not being MYSELF.  My Soul is what & who I really am, but while I am here on earth, my Soul is only part of the "equation"...there still remains my Mind & Body. When I venture through the "portal of death", though, my Mind & Body will be removed from the "equation" and all that will remain is my Soul. This will be the point at which I will become MYSELF once again. 
Even though I will only be composed of my Soul, I will remember everything from my "past life" and will be able to add those experiences to all my other "previous lives", in order to compare it all to EVERYTHING. Once this comparison will be complete, I (my Soul) will either discuss the results with other Souls or I (It) will decide to gather more experiences.
N.B. As I mentioned earlier in this Thread, a Soul is a part of EVERYTHING, therefore It knows every thing. But, knowing is never enough and therefore, your Soul seeks to experience every thing...especially Itself!
What can my Soul do to gather more experiences?...It can choose to reincarnate Itself into whatever or whoever It chooses! This is where the "portal" of birth comes into play. Once the Soul takes on a Mind & Body, It forgets who & what It is. This process allows It to experience things without any preconceived notions or prejudices. Following McWilliams' idea, your Soul is able to regain Its memory, but this would be an incredible achievement of earthly enlightenment! To reach this level of Spirituality during a lifetime, a Soul would 1st have to be completely "awakened/liberated", to the point where It would remember who & what It is. This, in itself, would be incredible indeed...but to remember your past lives...WHOA!  I guess this is where the Dalai Lama finds himself, and that is why I look up to him.
P.S. Sorry it took me so long to reply to this, but it took a little Soul-searching to figure things out...that, and I've been preoccupied with my new toy: Halo 2 on a 51" Widescreen HDTV!!!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 18, 2005 09:04 PM |
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Quote:
You cannot really prove or disprove any theory
about what is true. You can state what you believe, but beliefs are often unsupported wishes based on fantasy or what someone else told you.
Now, I wont say never believe anyone else, but the most
important thing, IMO, is to extend your own experience
and knowledge as far as it can go. The place to start is
with who you are here in this world.
Shiva, you have written what I have been thinking about behind the scenes. I was trying to write this thought to the best of my abilities, but every time I'd try, I'd hit the back button frustrated...
But, if I might add, beliefs may also be what you came up with yourself after what someone has told you, but not based on it. For example, people I talk to might give me some food for thought, but could lead my chain of thoughts to something else not in relation to what that person told me, but else of that. I would call this an insight. It is indeed a fascinating experience when it happens.
It is hard however (but not impossible) to start with yourself as you put it... and not have other people affect your own experience. We are, after all, social beings.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 19, 2005 01:17 PM |
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Quote:
But, if I might add, beliefs may also be what you came up with yourself after what someone has told you, but not based on it. For example, people I talk to might give me some food for thought, but could lead my chain of thoughts to something else not in relation to what that person told me, but else of that. I would call this an insight. It is indeed a fascinating experience when it happens.
It is hard however (but not impossible) to start with yourself as you put it... and not have other people affect your own experience. We are, after all, social beings.
For sure, no one is isolated. Therefore, all our
experiences and conclusions never belong to us alone.
I guess that is why some people go sit in a cave and
meditate for years, trying to achieve a purity of
experience without outside influences.
The subject of an individual soul reincarnating is
interesting. If we say that "we are everything"
it actually contradicts reincarnation. If we
are everything, then being an individual is simply an
illusion. There really is no individual to be born or
die. Since we are everything, every memory of every soul
is available to us, so why limit yourself to just a few
previous lives when they are all yours?
That is theory at any rate. Practically speaking,
everyone wakes up each morning and continues their life
just where they left off when they went to sleep. One
cannot function in the world unless the ego mechanism
is intact, so whether we are everything or not,
daily life continues.
Insights come not just from reworking experience, but
from our inner being. Thats why its called insight. Even in ordinary life, the inner being is
there. Perhaps you have heard of the Zen master who said:
"Before enlightenment, chopping wood, carrying water,
after enlightement, chopping wood, carrying water".
In other words, we are the same even after all the
extrordinary experiences that appear to take place whilst
on the path of self-knowledge.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted January 20, 2005 07:19 AM |
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Let's have a toast to Shiva's humour! CHEERS!
Quote:
Perhaps you have heard of the Zen master who said: "Before enlightenment, chopping wood, carrying water, after enlightement, chopping wood, carrying water".
Hahaha! I like this quote, Shiva...thanks for sharing it.  Your point about daily life goes really well with your Thread "The Miracle"...in which, by the way, I think I am the only person who did not get a QP! Hahaha!
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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pandora
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Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted January 30, 2005 07:22 PM |
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*bump*
what's up? did you guys run out of beer?
ps: to Leo, you're actually not the only one.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 30, 2005 07:49 PM |
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All that heavy philosophizing and suds...
I think we're all hung over
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted January 31, 2005 08:19 PM |
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*hickup*
What? blurbbblarddd..... who's hung over...? *hickup
*Falls off his chair.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted February 01, 2005 12:21 AM |
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At the risk of being offtopic - could you please make an audio recording of yourself saying Quote:
blurbbblarddd
and then post it here for us all to hear?
I think it would really help me to understand where you're coming from
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted February 01, 2005 01:09 AM |
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Pandora just made me come up with an idea!
I was going to start a new Thread with my question in it, but since it is philosophical in nature (and since we are all here enjoying the Tavern! ) I might as well ask it in this Thread.
"Following the discussions that we have had (over many pints of beer, mind you ), do you believe in alternate universes?"
As for myself, I do! I find that my reasoning not only conforms to the concept of INFINITY, but is also supported by recent findings in the field of Quantum Physics.
According to a "Scientific American" magazine from 2004, our universe is made up of a small % of matter (planets, suns, moons, etc), a little bigger % of energy (sunlight, infra-red, etc), a medium % of dark matter (whatever that is! ) and a large % of dark energy (Huh?! ). This magazine that I have, goes on to explain how our universe is constantly expanding and will continue to do so until it ends because it does not contain enough matter, energy, or enough of that elusive dark matter to stop the expansion through gravity. The theory also states that the large % of dark energy, which has a repulsive effect on everything else in our universe, will only make the expansion speed up as time goes by because it will take up more & more space...no pun intended.
Well, a new theory on the Big Bang states that as our universe continues to expand, at increasingly greater speeds (This goes against the original Big Bang theory, where the universe would collapse back onto itself and then explode outward again), it will eventually collide with another universe experiencing the same thing!
The scientists that were interviewed in the magazine (winners of The Supreme Geek Award ) say that they are working on proving that universes "vibrate" at a certain frequencies, depending on their age. They add that when universes reach the "Age of Darkness" (where all suns have burned out and all life has died  ), their frequencies change and become similar to other Dark Universes. These "geeks" suppose that eventually, instead of going on expanding forever, these universes will collide with one another and cause...drum roll please...A Big Bang!
To back up their far-out theory, these scientists claim that they actually discovered a "Thread" or a "Filament" in our universe that connects to another universe!!! I don't remember what they call it, but basically, as a universe becomes Dark, these connecting "Filaments" will vibrate or stretch out and then cause both Dark Universes to crash together. Incredible stuff!
I know how this whole jargon might sound purely scientific and you might even ask yourself "Where does God fit into all of this?", but to me it all makes sense! As we have been saying all along, existance is all about Life...& Love in my opinion...so, how coincedental is it that when a universe goes Dark (devoid of all light & life) that its "frequency" changes and then it renews itself? Well, I don't believe in coincedences! Many different Spiritual belief systems preach that Life vibrates, so if there is a lack of Life, then there will be a lack of vibrations. So, this theory of Quantum Physics might actually be reasonable...
Ahhhh...Science & Spirituality coming together! It's like the Mind and the Soul agreeing on the same thing, but indifferent ways, and all that is missing is the Body's input. As Meatloaf said: "Two out of three ain't bad!"
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted February 01, 2005 01:32 AM |
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I have heard of the theory of colliding universes, and it has it's merits.
One thing that has puzzled scientists theorising about the Big Bang is that if they number-crunched and extrapolated the data, then the universe should be roughly 15% larger than it actually is.
What that means to us is....that the Earth should be occupying the space currently known as Pluto's orbit or beyond.
One reason they believe for this anomaly is that they have taken for granted that the laws of physics have stayed constant since the birth of the universe.
But surprisingly this may not be true.
There are 3 theories that I know of why this may be the case.
The first is that there exists in the universe 'cold dark matter', undetectable by light telescopes and very rarely detectable by radioscopy.
The quantites of cold dark matter present in the universe may be far more than originally thought - ie - enough to have the kind of gravity that has 'reined in' the universe's expansion in contrast to the scientists earlier predictions.
The second is that the laws of physics 'evolved'.
So for a time Planck's constant wasn't constant etc.
The laws of physics then reached an equilibrium and (maybe) have remained the same ever since. This initial skew in the laws we apply today could have thrown off the calculations enough to put us in Pluto's orbit.
The third one is that upon expanding so far that it reached another alternative universe where the laws of physics are different from ours caused a Big Bang.
This is related to the second theory and may explain why the laws of physics had to reach equilibrium between the two previous sets of laws.
Very mind-bending and most definetly quantum.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 02, 2005 02:03 AM |
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These theories are luscious enough, especially for fantasy readers, but most of the time they prove to be scientific rambles. Its almost incredible the type of unreliable “proofs” scientists that construct these kind of theories possess.
First of all, the existence of dark matter is uncertain to begin with, and imagine colliding universes and “Filaments”. Measurement discrepancy, unfounded deductive reasoning, inadequate research instruments, it all puts speculating about these things in the realm of sci-fiction. I prefer to stick to real science.
What annoys me in fact, is people’s tendency to project their theistic views whenever the opportunity presents itself onto hypothetical theories, while they’re still vulnerable to misinterpretations and abuses, but the actual theory is far from what it sounds like to outsiders. Like when the Church made a full of herself to point to the Biblical passage “And there was Light.” when the Bing Bang theory was first forwarded, as the proof for the creation of the universe that has always been in front of our eyes, but we refused to listen. lol
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 02, 2005 03:59 AM |
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Edited By: Shiva on 1 Feb 2005
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Having read enough science fiction, and popular books
on physics, I can see where it is interesting to
speculate on such things. Whether or not there is dark
matter or alternate universes is kind of fascinating to
think of, but who really knows. Even what Svarog calls
hard and provable science is really only the current
theory that seems to fit the observable facts.
Our view of reality changes according to where and what
century we live in. Has anybody seen "The Gods must be
Crazy"? Its a movie where a coke bottle falls out of a
plane and lands in the middle of a South African bushmans
camp. Never having seen a coke bottle, he thinks its from
beyond and he starts on a trek to return it to its maker.
His view of reality didn't include coke bottles falling from the sky, so he looked on it completely differently from you and I. Reality is a subjective thing, dependant
on surrounding culture and social influences.
Karl Marx said religion is the opiate of the masses.
Svarog would never smoke that opium, but he smokes
the pipe of computer games and perhaps tv, which are
the modern form of cultural opium, keeping people
pacified
In fact, we all live in kind of alternative universes.
Does anybody totally agree with anybody else in every
way?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 02, 2005 04:38 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 1 Feb 2005
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Some compromising constructs you put upon me, Shiva.
I never said "hard and provable" science (not my understanding of nature of science), only real science. And that is totally different from this kind of science, which has even more connection to metaphysics than physics.
Quote:
Svarog would never smoke that opium, but he smokes
the pipe of computer games and perhaps tv, which are
the modern form of cultural opium, keeping people
pacified
I'm not a sure if this one has a knit of seriousness to it, but not to take any chances, i'll respond. Seriously.
Thats an analogy badly placed. Opium is not accidentally chosen to describe religion. Cant see the connection between that and entertainment. And seeing as you dont know what i do in my spare time (far from playing games, btw), it's too far-fetched to make any comments about it.
Other than that, smoking can keep you pacified indeed. You only see flowers and peace everywhere!
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Shiva
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 02, 2005 05:00 AM |
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LOL...Just speculating on your alternate reality ..
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted February 03, 2005 10:53 PM |
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THE RD IS BACK IN THAAA HIS'OUZE.. ^_^ Another crazy thought just ready to get seen..
Hiya Folks. This is the philosophic RD speaking.
If we say the Big Bang theory is true, then there must have been SOMETHING before. You can't just have nothing, and then all of a sudden something. There has had to be SOMETHING... That "something" some people believe to be God, and he had another way of creating the world, lets leave that part of this.
So there has had to be SOMETHING out there, but what are our possibilities? Everything known to man was created after the big bang.
Then comes the question Will we ever know? .. there can't be a way to ever find out, since it happend before intelligent lifes "creation".. We might be able to create wonders by the flick of a switch in the future, but even if we create a time traveling device, we wouldn't be able to go way back, because according to "time", it was created when it happened.. Which would just bring us back to an explosion.
MY IDEA of it however, is that there once was life, and it was incredibly similiar to what we have now.. But one day it all went wrong, war was upon that "race", which resulted in a giant explosion, "creating" a new universe so to speak. Even though i think that way, there must have been something before this socalled species.. Which brings me on to another idea.. We aren't the only intelligent life in the universe, we aren't even intelligent. We are created by another species, and we are "miniature". We are a little world they have created. Then another question arises, how did THAT world come to pass?
Something just doesn't fit in with it all. Truly, i don't know if we'll ever found it, but i doubt it. But i can't say that it'll never happen though..
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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Leo_Lion
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
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posted February 03, 2005 11:27 PM |
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RealDeal, buddy...I think you drank too much!
There is one simple answer to all of your questions and suppositions, and it is called...
INFINITY!
Infinitely large and infinitely small, etc...
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*The end to no beginning...
*Take care, Leo
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guitarguy
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Rockoon.
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posted February 04, 2005 02:41 AM |
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Won't his thoughts on the subject change once the beer wears off?
-guitarguy
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted February 04, 2005 07:18 AM |
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INFINITY can't exist when there is nothing else?
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted February 04, 2005 07:22 AM |
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Once again, taking the scientific approach
Your theory is possible, RD, but still a theory. That would mean that the essence of life would be inbuilt into the very matter of our Universe! But are you saying that this has happened before, like a cycle?
That would be interesting, although a little too far-fetched for me. Sci-fi. Warring races... I don't think that that would be the cause.
Although that does give me an idea... what if the circle of life does not end on our planet? What if it includes the planets itself (as in what RD could be saying)?
Think about it. Unless you live in some remote and ancient village that hasn't advanced for 200 years, then you would probably know that we as humans are on a self created road to destruction, and we're taking our Earth with us.
Even watching the news... floods in Europe, cyclones in America, record low temperatures, record high temperatures, freaks of nature everywhere you look.
Pollution, greenhouse gases etc... it could fix itself up (lightning is caused by greenhouse effect, yet also helps to fix it), or we could clean it up... but the point is, that we haven't gone that horribly wrong in concerns to the environment. Well, the refusal to sign the Kyoto protocol by the Americans and Australians is pretty dumb, but we haven't completely stuck the knife in ourselves by accident.
What I'm getting at is, it could have happened before.
What if... another Solar System in the Milky Way galaxy existed before ours, and also destroyed itself this way. I mean, I refuse to believe that there was such a nothingness before the big bang.
What if... they did destroy them selves, but the planet or the Solar System was reborn, and over and over again, by the same way scientists reckon it was created in the first place, the accretion theory?
An interesting thought.
And on Re-incarnation...
I don't have much to say about that... goes against everything I believe in. I don't think that it is possible, in any way.
But of course no one can prove it or against it, but it's always fun to argue!
But then Religion itself is a different thing altogether...
Isn't it funny how a discussion like this always turns to religion? I won't go any further.
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TheRealDeal
Promising
Supreme Hero
Foobum* of Justice!
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posted February 04, 2005 03:06 PM |
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Quote:
Your theory is possible, RD, but still a theory. That would mean that the essence of life would be inbuilt into the very matter of our Universe! But are you saying that this has happened before, like a cycle?
That would be interesting, although a little too far-fetched for me. Sci-fi. Warring races... I don't think that that would be the cause.
It's not that farfetched actually, we are nearing our own destruction with haste. We are slowly destroying earth, so the fact that we are meeting our doom could easy be true.
Then there is the fact that a similiar race arises. Maybe something on this earth survives, maybe not a human, or an animal. But a piece of bacterie or something, that slowly evolves into something bigger, and then it contines into a race.. You know, just like we started. Back in the ages we all came from a large pond in africa, so my theory might be a little bit closer then we can even fathom. But, it's just theory. But theory can come awfully close to what is true..
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*We all know the that Foobum is the class of all that is Cake.
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