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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: @angelito: Random Templates
Thread: @angelito: Random Templates This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT»
Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted February 13, 2005 05:58 PM

@angelito: Random Templates

Hi angelito,

im searching for template infos, but i cant find them. Can u please link me some threads?

-Midnights Template Thread
- Kerberos interview with a Vampire
- your very good template testing
- Bastards template site

Do uve some more infos?

Please can you link those infos for me??

Xarfx1
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted February 13, 2005 09:07 PM

Quote:
Hi angelito,

im searching for template infos, but i cant find them. Can u please link me some threads?

-Midnights Template Thread
- Kerberos interview with a Vampire
- your very good template testing
- Bastards template site

Do uve some more infos?

Please can you link those infos for me??

Xarfx1




Thread with good infos about RMG

Bastards site about RMG

Midnights and Hailes explainations

Midnight mix

Angelitos investigations

Kerberos Interview with the Vampire


Hope this helps  
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted February 14, 2005 09:19 AM

IMHO this should be linked to ToC too
It's all a guy needs about RMG templates
@Conan:Can you copy paste this to ToC?(maybe make a small section dedicated to maps)
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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted February 14, 2005 02:04 PM

Quote:
Hope this helps  


...yes, thank u (very much appreciated).

May i ask for more?!?

Can u make short descriptions to each column in general (what it does), added by a small example?

Especially the following questions:

- How can u design a map properly, especially the connections to each land?

- How to define the guards of the items?

- How to exclude/include items properly, and what the hell does "Density" exactly do?

Unfortunately im not very happy with the templates that does TOH provide at the moment, they are either...

...very boring by excluding and fixing everything (pan boxes with 90 skeletons and other zzzZZZ stuff).

...or are fun-templates with "everything can happen"(opponent having 2 lvl7 on jebus) which are no fun.

So i try to design a cool 2on2 template for ur upcoming german LAN...so any help would be appreciated.

Xarfax1
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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted February 15, 2005 03:13 AM

Maybe some1 can find good ol' Midnight and send him a mail?
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted February 15, 2005 10:32 AM
Edited By: angelito on 16 Feb 2005

Map


- Name

- Name of the template

- Minimume Size

- This number shows what size the map should have at least

1 = Small no under
2 = Small with under
4 = Middle no under
8 = Middle with under
9 = Large no under
16 = X-Large no under
18 = Large with under
32 = X-Large with under



- Maximum Size

- This number shows what size the map maximum should have


Zone

- ID

- Shows how much areas are made on the map

Type

- human start
Shows which areas are the „home“-areas of the human players

- computer start
Shows which areas are the „home“-areas of the comp. players

- Treasure
Here u can define which areas are the treasure areas, no player
will start here

- Junction
Here u can define the areas, where other areas „come together“
and where nothing special should be placed

- Base Size
This should normaly define the size fo each area, but i still couldn´t find out what these numbers refer to. Don´t know what
is maximum for each or what is maximum in summary for all.....


Restrictions

Should test a bit to find out what those restrictions really effectuate. If it shows how many players can participate in that game minimum and maximum, i wonder why it is set for EVERY area-ID. But i think it is something like that. If u set the max. of total positions here on 4, only 4 players can participate. Will test a bit more to find that out.

Player towns

- Ownership
Shows which color belongs to which starting area
(1=red, 2=blue, and so on..)

- Minimum Towns
Shows the number of towns without fort prebuilt in every area

- Minimum castles
Shows the number of towns with fort prebuilt in every area

- Town Desnity
Shows how „near/close“ the non-fort towns are placed to each other in each area (the higher the number, the „nearer/closer“ the towns are placed)

- Castle Density
Shows how „near/close“ the towns are placed to each other in each area (the higher the number, the „nearer/closer“ the towns are placed)


Neutral Towns

- Minimum Towns
Shows the number of towns without fort prebuilt in every area

- Minimum castles
Shows the number of towns with fort prebuilt in every area

- Town Desnity
Shows how „near/close“ the non-fort towns are placed to each other in each area (the higher the number, the „nearer/closer“ the towns are placed)

- Castle Density
Shows how „near/close“ the towns are placed to each other in each area (the higher the number, the „nearer/closer“ the towns are placed)

- Towns are of same typ
Here u can define if the neutral towns should all be of the same typ. You can define in the „Town Types“-row (see further explanations), which kind of towns are allowed to be placed.
If u define only ONE typ of town for an area there, all neutral towns will be of that kind. If u define more than one typ, the typ will be randomly chosen, but all towns are still only of that one typ.


Town Types

- Here u can define which types of towns will be allowed for each area. (If u mark the row „Necropolis“ for the treasure areas with a „x“ here, than there will only be necro towns in the treasure areas....)


Minimum Mines

- Here u can define the minimum amount of mines of each kind which will be placed in each area.


Mine Density

- Shows how „near/close“ the mines are placed to each other in each area (the higher the number, the „nearer/closer“ the mines are placed)


Terrain

- Match to town
If u mark an area here, the terrain will match to the starting town of this area. So if u have defined an area with more than 1 town, the terrain matches to the town the player choses at the start or the randomly chosen starting town typ.

- Dirt
Terrain will be „dirt“ for the area u mark here

- All other terrains the same procedure

Hint: If u mark only „cave“ for a specific area, u can define this starting town will be placed on underground if map size and settings allow underground though...


Monsters

- Strength
You can define 4 different types of strength here. These strength settings only refer to guards of mines, arties and such. They do NOT refer to zone guards which guard a boarderline between 2 areas.

none = no guards at all
weak = weak guards, mines and minor arties are not guarded.
avg = average guards, ore and wood mines are not guarded
strong = strong guards, nearly everything on the map is guarded



- Match to town
This is an extremly easy way to prevent a Necro-player from raising too many skellies. Just mark the area of the Necro player here, and he will only have Necro-units to fight against in his area. No more legions of skellies except from caches and such buildings!
To make something clear here: Surely u can still raise skellies in those areas, but u wont be able to do your "Vamplords"-rush against all the undead units, that´s why u probably wont get that many skellies in that short time!

- Neutral
Only neutral units like nomads, trolls, halflings, Azure dragons, a.s.o....are placed in the marked area.

- Castle, Rampart, Tower.....
Only the units of these towns are placed in the marked area

- Forge
This was ment to be the „forge“ town („future town“) which was finally never implemented in the game. So this row stands for „Conflux“ now.


Treasure

Here can u define all the stuff which will be placed in each area besides mountains, roads, trees and such.
In the link „Angelitos Investigations“ which i have posted above, u can see a small amount of numbers which define such special buildings, stuff, arties and so on. You have to set a Low and a High number to define a range, and u r able to define 3 ranges for each area. The bigger the range is set, the more different stuff can appear.
For example: a den of thieves has the treasure range 100-3000,
a gold pile 300-4500 (not really sure about these numbers though), a conservatory 2000-15000, a level 5 dwelling 5000-12500 and an utopia 6500-25000.
If u will set your range now like this: 100 (low)-4500 (high) and a density of 1 or 2, u will probably find a low number of dens and goldpiles in you area, 1 conservatory if u are lucky, but NO level 5 dwelling and NO utopia.
If u will set the range like this instead: 4000 (low]-25000 (high) and a density of 7 or 8, the range is soo big, nearly everything could happen, coz u give the random generator too many possibilities. You can find 5 utopias and 4 conservatories in that area, or u can find 15 crypts and 8 medusa stores and 1 relic artefact, but NO utopia and NO conservatory.
So the best way to control the stuff a bit and try to balance it for the areas which should be balanced, is to keep the ranges small. That is why u r able to define 3 different ranges for every area.
You also define the density (which is nearly the same as „amount“ in that case) of the treasuries for all 3 ranges.
There seem to be a possibilitiy to define what kind a stuff u can find in pandoras boxes (like: only Necro-units in treasure areas) Perhaps u have to know the exact number of the treasure value to get that like this, but i don´t know any exact numbers. It´s possible to look in the rmg.txt fiel of those templates to see what numbers are set there. Or again „test some more“...


Connections

Zones

Here u can define which zones (ID´s, areas) will be connected  to each other and how strong the guards are.

- Zone1 / Zone 2
Here you enter the ID of the areas u want to be connected.
I´m not sure about how to define One-way or Two-way-teleporters here, coz i´ve tested it not very much (but will do in nearer future)
One theory says you should set a pair of Ids 2 times the same here. then it´s possible to have a teleporter here.
Important: You can connect as many areas here as you want. No matter how many rows you have to fill.

- Value
This number defines the strength of the monsters guarding the boarder between the two areas mentioned left of it. You have to try some numbers to find out which amount means
5000 means something lots (about 30) Level 4 units for example (if i remember correct). 50.000 means lots of Level 7 units. This is a thing u have to test very much to get a clue. Easy o make with a Small map and 3 or 4 connections. If u give them all the same value, u can compare quiet well what those numbers mean.

- Wide
Also a point i´m not sure about. First i thought it means there are no guards on that boarder, but this could be set as well with putting a „zero“ in the column „value“. It could also mean the boarder is wide open and has different kind of monsters as guards. has to be tested a bit more...

- Boarder Guard
I tried this sometimes and i think this doesn´t work properly. i always had tons of key tents in all areas and many boarders placed weird in all areas. Not sure if u can handle that exact the way u wan to. Testing needed...


Restrictions

Same as for the restrictions for „zones“, i couldn´t find a clear description for the restrictions for „connections“.
I have set them always the same way i set the „zone“-descriptions, but not sure about their effect.



So this is a small description about all the columns of the RMG as far as i have knowledge about their meanings and consequences.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted February 18, 2005 11:21 PM

... hi angelito and thank u very much .

First i would like to note that this good work would of course get a well deserved QP!

(unfortunately u r a moderator, so i lost a QP hunting competitor ) jk

Unfortunately i havnt had much time recently, but some little test ive made concerning block values:

With settings 100% "normal strength" u can divide the amount of the creatures by the amount of the block value and ull get the costs per creature.

Example:

Block Value 50.000
27 Bone Dragons

50.000/27 = 1851

the price for a Bone Dragon is 1800.

So on reverse u can approx. the amount of creatures ull face if u know the block value. You divide the field value by the prize:

50.000/1800 = 27 or 28 Bone Dragons

So while u get the information of "Lots of Bone Dragons", which means 49 in max, u now know that the amount must be lower..u can even calculate the amount per stack (3 to 4).

I assume that on "normal strenght" the block has to be lots as minimum and horde as maximum amount of creatures in it. This has the following consequenzes:

U wont find creatures in it that will be to expensive to reach the "lots amount". Example:

19 Angels

19 x 3000 = 57.000 field value (too high)

U wont find creatures in it that will be to cheap to be less then a "horde". Example:

50.000 with Zealots, price 450

50.000/450 = 111 means more then a horde.

With the setting u normally play, which is "creatures strong" i cant say anything by now (too little time).

An unconfirmed observation i made was that the blocks are not native to the towns they block. Maybe someone can confirm this?

To the other points:

-If u leave out the template name this template wont occur.

- Pan boxes contain creatures relating to the underground or town they are at.

- The last restrictions relate to the amount of human and computer players u can play this template with.

- In the original rmg the colums "wide" and "border guard" is only used when no amount in the block value is zero.

Ok maybe this is new ...lol

Xarfax1

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted February 21, 2005 01:54 PM
Edited By: angelito on 21 Feb 2005

Quote:

.........
- The last restrictions relate to the amount of human and computer players u can play this template with.



That was the solution i had first time as well.
But it seems, that only the first 2 columns (min. human positions and max. human position) define that, coz they are all the same from the first row to the last.

But when u take a look at the last two columns (min. total positions and max. total positions) u can see, these numbers grow from row to row (so from area-ID to area-ID). First u have 2...then 3...later up to 7...

So these numbers are related to each single area. Does that perhaps mean how many other areas "touch" this specific area? (minimum total "positions)

As far as i can see, much more testing is needed....will post my results soon...
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted February 22, 2005 09:07 AM

just out of curiosity i've downloaded the Textedit file form the bastards site and followed Midnight's explanations on that interview with the panic template.
Then i tried to make a template of my own.
still a couple of questions arrisei know theese may sound silly,but anyway i'll apreciate some answers)

-Conections: for exemple if i have a 5 zones map made for 2 and i want to connect the 2 stating zones each with another zone(zone 1 with zone 3and zone 2 with zone 4) and then i want to conect 3 and 4 with the treasure zone(5) it should IMHO look loke this:

ZONE1/ZONE2
1        3
2        4
3        5
4        5
This makes sense to me.There is only one problem:it doesn't work!how does it really work?
I tried understanding that on simple tempale(schaafworld who has only 3 zones or jebus with 5 zones,but these are different from the one Midnight designs,they don't even have the same columns,mines have values set instead of just a number etc)

I saw in midnight's template that some conections seemed to repeat(he wrote the same conection twice even three times) and still there is only one conection made on the map

-Zone sizes
i tried making a l no under template(9) template with 5 zones.I've set different values to the zones(from 15 to 30), but the maps that were generated had aprox equal zone sizes.why?

-Treasure
about the 3 layers that can be aplied.
I didn't quite understand how this works.I mean if you set a high value(80000-100000) on the first colum, a medium value(12500-17500) on the second one and a low value(800-1500) on the third with a density of 4 you should get what?
I tried it and i got 7 cripts,some pan boxes,lots of gold piles/chests and 2 topias
how does that work?  

- zone guards
i couldn't find info on this.the Homm bastards site where i have downloaded the Textedit, had a link to a table describing aproximately the amount of units coresponding to a certain value, but the link was broken, so that leaves me with Midnight's explanation(4500-7000 week 1 break....week 6 break)wich prouves to be innacurate.Where can i find more specific info on this?


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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted February 22, 2005 11:27 AM

One thing is important!

Open the "rmg.txt" file with EXCEL, not with textedit or notepad or such programs. With excel, all columns are placed where they should, with textedit, you get a strange view and some columns "jump" to the right.
When u finished your work, DON´T save this file as an excel file then, coz heroes won´t accept this as a rmg-file then and u can´t use it. Still save it as a txt.-file.

So i guess your zone-connection problem could be caused by the text-edit program. Try it again with Excel, it should work then.

Your "value"-problem is mentioned by Xarfax 2 posts above, and it sounds logical for me....try it and test it a bit more.

The treasure-value issue u mentioned is fine for me.
You set one range between 800-1500, which means "goldpiles, lev1 scrolls, waterwheels,leprechauns, level1 dwellings, crypts and so on (look in my investigation posts for nearer details)....). Density of 4 means u wont find that much stuff.
Other range is 12500-17500, which means relic artefacts probably, utopias, pan boxes. level 7 dwellings and so on....
The third range 80000-100000 is very high and means probably u will find hugh treasury in the pan boxes, like "All spells", "All level4 spells", "8 level 7 units" and so on.....so this worked fine..
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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted April 01, 2005 04:42 PM

...nach oben ..arbeite gerade an meinen "27 chambers of shaolin" ...schick mir doch bitte dein rmg zu!

Danke und Gruß,

Xarfax1
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 02, 2005 02:17 AM

Tried to send you an email Xar, but it returned to sender. "Unavailable". I sent it to "Xarfax1@yahoo.com".
You got a different one?
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zsa
zsa


Famous Hero
posted April 02, 2005 05:28 PM

Ring Template

ummm, just a quick question guys. Doesn anybody have the rmg.txt file for the ring random map template?

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted April 02, 2005 06:46 PM

You can extract it from the original rmg.txt file, which u could downlad here: http://www.strategyplanet.com/homm/bastards/randoms/Rmg.txt
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zsa
zsa


Famous Hero
posted April 04, 2005 12:41 AM

thnx thnx
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 03, 2005 01:36 AM

On Top!
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted October 15, 2005 09:44 PM

Quote:
On Top!

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Nebuka
Nebuka


Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
posted November 05, 2005 10:23 PM
Edited By: Nebuka on 5 Nov 2005

And again on top.


Anyone think he/she can figure out how to utilize water in templates?

For maps that I'd like to play, unfortunatelly now someone would have to edit generated map...

I'd like to play something like this for instance: (jebus edited generated map)


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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted October 22, 2007 06:49 PM

I have a couple of ideas to some interesting templates.

1) Basicly a temp like jebus but without all the free gold, chests and resources lying around everywhere. This way resourcemanagement will be a factor in the game, which its not on the current jebus. You probably wont have to buy 7 heroes day 1 and you will have to work much harder to breake early. On the other hand all the factors that make jebus fun is still there.

2) A temp very much like true random, but with a medium size and rich starting area (high value but not full of free stuff). Like on TR there should be at least 4 zones between the players and a few treassurezones that you dont know where is. This way you can get some high lvl dwells in the game (which are fun) but you really have to work hard to flag them.

How do you guys like these ideas?
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 22, 2007 07:45 PM

The first idea is quite easy to implement. The second one is a bit harder to do, especially with those "unknown" treasure areas.

I will give it a try the next days and will see how it works...
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