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| Thread: poll: Should we believe in God or no? (inspired by french mathematician Pascal) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · NEXT» |
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 06:41 AM |
bonus applied. |
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Poll Question:
poll: Should we believe in God or no? (inspired by french mathematician Pascal)
I was visiting again doodie.com - and then found the web site of this model MickT - and being model - he also wrote some essays - so here i found part of his essay - which is about french mathematician Pascal about GOD EXISTANCE (well I knew Pascal only from informatics/mathematics side - not from his phylosophicall)...
Here is the quote from the site:
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French mathematician Pascal entertained the same dilemma. He came up with a logical solution known as Pascal's wager. Simply stated, the Pascal's wager breaks the dilemma down into two options, to believe in God or not to believe in God. In either case you could be right or wrong. If you believe in God and it turns out that you were right, you hit the jackpot. If it turns out that you were wrong, you lose a little. If you don't believe in God and it turns out that you were right, you gain a little. There is a certain amount of satisfaction in knowing that you were right. If you don't believe in God and it turns out that you were wrong, you lose a lot. There is not enough sufficient information to know for sure, and you have to make a decision, therefore it is safer to believe.
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here is the site with full essay - http://www.mickt.com/god.html
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 15, 2001 07:24 AM |
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i say there is a god..
From so many stories and proof/evidence we have found.
The way you look into life.. just think
Trees/Grass= Oxygen.
Oxygen is what we use to breathe..
Lungs in our bodies is what fills up with oxygen and releases the used air.
The way we reproduce is really smart and amazing if you look at it in a way. And God made it 'pleasurable' so its not a chore in making new beings.. So we will always be ahead in the reproduction.
The heart that pumps the blood in our body for us to stay alive..
We would have no life if we didnt have anywhere to think.. Which in life we have our Mind.
Every cell and every part of our body is important to us. How would they just appear if theres no way to explain it or make it happen besides the excistence of God or a God.
The feelings we have..
Anger-We need it or we wouldnt have a straight world.. We'd be our own slaves.
Love- A feeling of emotion, we need it to carry on with life and share the world with new beings.
The senses in our bodies (Feeling, Hearing, Seeing, Tasting and Smelling)
We need these or we wouldnt be able to help ourselves..
Animals and foodchains.. Plants and animals.. All important..
The sun to keep us warm during day.. we need that.
The moon to light up the night.. We need that.. (if we didnt have the moon when world started, we would die in the night))
Stars to light up the night all around you.
Fire god made to help us in life..
Water for us to drink and to stay alive.
Food as in the food chain(not candy or snacks).. that helps feed us and helped feed the people in the world that one was a child.
Cells that eat the germs.. if we didnt have these we would die the first week we were born.
And culture and skincolor.. God did this to test us how we would treat eachother individually and how we take this..
Drugs God put on earth to help us.. and some drugs that god put on earth to test us to see if we would make the right decision..
Life is all a test.. the only reason most people dont believe in God is because he stays beyond our mind to test us all... To see if we are smart to handle ourselves right, to see if we will make the right decisions..
Thats why God doesnt stop wars or racism or anytthing like that... But God did say he will end this world and guarentee the ones who deserve it 'Eternal Life'.. And start a new born world where there will be peace..
And we think of the end days will be violent and torcher.. But God says it will happen peacefully in a flash.
The bible includes many stories we can live on and think about.. Its there to teach you the meaning of life in Gods words.. And point you in the right direction..
And if Jesus did exsist, and God didnt, then was Jesus mental? No i wouldnt say that..
The encounters with Angels all fake?? No.. The looks of the angels are unscribable.
And also people say they have closly died for a time and brought back in ER, and they witnessed either Heaven or Hell..
if there is no God.. who created Heaven and Hell.. Why is it past our knowledge that we have never been close to Heaven and Hell in real life? Who created the universe? Who made the rains rotation and course to keep this planet healthy and green?
Also they way the worlds land just 'split' into what we see today.. the cotinents and oceans.. And it seems the world 'grew' since the past days to.. Also, scientists have proven the way the land broke and they have discovered that on the Axis of the earth and rotation, then North America and south America wouldve collided and fallen to where Anartica is. And there will be no life if thats where they were today... But yet only something as powerful as God could prevent that.. and look what he did.. im typing in North America and i'm away from Anartica.
I'd say im a little mad anyone would have second thoughts about the excistence of God..
Think right and follow his direction....
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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UnkaHaakon
Responsible
Famous Hero
happily tilting at windmills
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posted August 15, 2001 09:47 AM |
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Ah yes, Pascal's Wager ..hadn't thought about it in years. Thanks for putting the poll up.
For the record, I voted "yes", but I don't even pretend to have all the answers about the nature of god, or even some of them. Nor will I even venture a guess on who's religion is right.
Also for the record, just when I thought I had Ozzie pegged... thanks for shaking up my world a little. 
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Some people say the glass is half full..Some people say it's half empty... I say "What're you asking me to drink?"
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 09:57 AM |
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God is non existant
Read "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams - Babelfish section... a proof for the non-existance of God is given there.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 15, 2001 10:01 AM |
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It's all about believe...
When I was in high school we had this small thight group of people in which we talked about philosophical issues. Nowadays I'm really tired to these discussions as they don't take anyone anywhere and I have just read too much philosophy.
But let's break this dilemma up.
How about some Zen philosophy here?
If you believe you believe. If you don't believe, you believe that you don't believe. So in fact you believe.
I ask people often what they believe?
Some say "soft values" some say God some say Jesus. So people believe into different things.
You ask do I believe into God? Hmm, I have resigned from protestant church here. It was because I couldn't believe into God they worshipped. I'm not sure do I believe into God overall. I'm not sure is that even important.
I believe that you cannot reason believe. It's personal experience and all questions regarding it just take you from the original believe. If you ask those questions do you really have believe or do you just need to ask questions to test your believe?
Just believe.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted August 15, 2001 02:41 PM |
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i say that the lack of anything in the observable universe which could only be the creation of God makes his existence extremely unlikely. This is in keeping with the law of parsimony, also known as Ockham's Razor. This is one of the most basic rules of experimental science.
And about Pascal? Something tells me an all-powerful being is capable of seeing through a lie, especially if the liar says outright that it's to one's advantage to tell the lie in question.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Shae_Trielle
Honorable
Famous Hero
of Heroes
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posted August 15, 2001 02:58 PM |
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God is a myth
LOL Ozzy, of course you'd have to believe in god, because if you didn't, you couldn't exactly worship Satan could you?
And as for the world being so perfect, well it has to work in some order, otherwise there'd be no life. Mind you I have yet to figure out the purpose of a frickin' banana tree....
I believe God was an extraterrestrial being. Anyone ever read about the Dogon tribe in Africa who knew very very specific things about a star system that not even modern scientists discovered until the early nineties? Their myths are full of references to men from the stars who taught them about the star that they came from (always thought two be a twin star system by astronomists, even though the elders of the Dogon insisted it was a tri star system. In the 1990s modern telescopes picked up a small dwarf star in the system that had never been seen before. Yet the Dogon knew about it for centuries...)
Things like this are rife throughout dying cultures of the world.
If god existed, he would just come forth and proclaim himself. If he doesn't come forth and desires to wait for us to be wise enough to welcome him, then I think he's not much of a god at all, lol. I know people who have more compassion than he would.
God doesn't exist. If he did, my life wouldn't suck so much.
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 15, 2001 03:40 PM |
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thats right Shae, i wouldnt be able to believe in Satan without believing in God first.
Like Good and Evil, Thin and Wide, Love and Hate, Mind and Power, Ugly and Beautiful, Big and Small, Male and Female, Fantasy and Reality, Guns and Armor, Devils and Angels, Foot and Hand, Walk then Run, or whatever they topic is you have to believe one to believe both.
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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IRONMLH
Known Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 08:55 PM |
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GOD only exists in your mind
There is no GOD, nowhere. There are thousands of religions out there, all of them have a false belief. They have been brought up by their parents to believe in GOD. Although some have not been brought up that way, they then find GOD later in life.
But it all boils down to a false belief a need to believe in something, hoping, praying to this mythical creature.
God didnt create Adam and Eve, he did not create Oxygen he did no create anything. It is all a matter of scientific proofover the course of history. We evolved. Earth has been here for milleniums, no ONE created it. COME ON PEOPLE catch a clue.
All religions are crock!, Every single one of em. they all believe in this GOD, yet every one has a different definition byu which to run there lives and beliefs.
The bible! huh! that was written by MAN, not god. There are so many different versions of the bible, each one is supposed to written by GOD, come on. ITs all fake and i really truly feel sorry for those people that believe in something that does not exist and try to run their lives the way he thinks it should br ran.
i could ramble for hours on this subject, or lack thereof. Buts its really worthless, Religion is worthless.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 09:19 PM |
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Quote:
All religions are crock!, Every single one of em. they all believe in this GOD, yet every one has a different definition byu which to run there lives and beliefs.
Quote:
WHAT!!!!!!!! I cant believe you just said that im deeply deeply offended!!!!!!!!!! How dare you insult religion and god!!!!!!! Why for only $25 i can get god to send a personal message to you to prove he exists! *
*this does not cover P&P
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted August 15, 2001 09:21 PM |
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I agreed with most of your points, Shae, but I have to take slight issue with this:
Quote:
I believe God was an extraterrestrial being. Anyone ever read about the Dogon tribe in Africa who knew very very specific things about a star system that not even modern scientists discovered until the early nineties? Their myths are full of references to men from the stars who taught them about the star that they came from (always thought two be a twin star system by astronomists, even though the elders of the Dogon insisted it was a tri star system. In the 1990s modern telescopes picked up a small dwarf star in the system that had never been seen before. Yet the Dogon knew about it for centuries...)
There's a big debate going over whether the Dogon actually said that Sirius was a triple star system. The early reports have them saying it was 2 stars. Sirius B is not really that far beyond the range of normal human vision; a person with very good eyesight might be able to make it out on a claer moonless night. Anyway, te debatew does rage on. If you're really interested in the subject you might want to pick up the borderline-skeptic book Ancient Myteries by Peter James and Nick Thorpe.
Urge to argue satisfied.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 15, 2001 09:50 PM |
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That star thing...
You know we don't know how far that knowledge about those stars is. I have also read that because changes in earths atmosphere could make people to see things more clearer than they are now. So it would not have been impossible see truly far away into space without any equipment if circumstances have been better than they are now.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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IRONMLH
Known Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 10:06 PM |
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Arachnid
I see you quoted me, but i could not find where you pulled the second quote from. The one about proof for 25$ of something like that.
Are you saying you are offended by me?
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 10:18 PM |
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God=Nonsens
All those stories about god.. are just STUPID! whahaha the arc from noah? With all the animals on it? BULsnow!
The dinosaurs???? were are the dinosaurs?? in gods stories??? The earth was created in only 7 days? whahahahahaahahahah BULsnow! The human apeard on the 7th day.. and talking snakes? whahah sorry but the fairytales of the big bad wolf and the seven goats make more sence... I'm a BIG anti-God... Sorry for the ones that believe.. but but i just can't immagen you believe those stories...
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 15, 2001 10:19 PM |
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hey IRONMLH or whatever your name is.. i didnt like the post you made there... how did this Universe start... Did it just appear.. what was there before?? a white room?? nothing and nothing at all... just think of nothing.. there cant be just noothing,, theres always something... God or a great mass of light created it..
And as for the dinosaurs... the meteor crashed and they disappeard... but how did the dinosaurs die out and create Human without any logic or power or evelotion... simple... the great power of the next world which is the great light and mind of this GOD.
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 15, 2001 10:25 PM |
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Humans = Animals
Human aren't so great creatures. People nowadays are too influenced by the medieval thought of some people being above animals and then later came the idea of Universal man...
These are only things people want to believe. To be something special and not animals. And because we are now living more in virtual reality than the green nature we think we are different. Sadly we aren't.
For that God part there isn't way to reason through believe. Reasoning is believing into logic or to some "order" in universe, nothing else. I think so I am. I don't believe so. Because if some animals don't chat here they don't have access to God?
Hmm...
I'm not so sure about that.
In fact I think the same way as Shae.
No god, only one life from birth to death.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 15, 2001 10:26 PM |
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and when you think of God, you think of a human body that has human powers but a thousand times stronger in ever part of the body.. a mind so powerful.. reflects into light.. that type thing..
God isnt any of that.. we give God power everyday.. And in that saying "A Piece Of God Is In Us" means that he is in our minds.. actually that is our minds.. It's like an inner room.. it feels like a room where a voice inside our head thinks.. but actually in logic its heaven and when you die your soul goes into what your unconscious mind created.
And God is real, but just a great big mass that has the world going in a straight path to the end. and then to start all over where there will be nothing but peace
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 10:35 PM |
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Hmm ozzy...
And your a satanist? I don't think so......
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IRONMLH
Known Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 10:41 PM |
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oh boy
Wow, Ozzy Osbourne(certainly not your name!) I could care less if you are offended. In fact it is people like you believing in this so-called GOD that just make me laugh. I mean come on no one ever in the history of Mankind has come up with a shred of evidence that this GOD- oh creator of all, even exists. You think there is actually something out there that said, hmm, earth looks kind of dead now i think i will make some humans and see what they do! COME ON, your an fool to believe in such nonsense.
I will make no more posts on this thread as i have always found(again proven here) that people that like to believe in false beings are in fact weak. They have no personal inner strength and need to believe in these things to justify there own existance.
I will be back however to prove my points mentioned above. Cant wait!
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 15, 2001 10:46 PM |
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I always find Pascal's wager somewhat amusing. It's incredibly Eurocentric. It presents spirituality as a binary (since we're talking about PASCAL) choice :
0. There is a God in the Judea-Christian sense
1. There is nothing
I fail to see why it couldn't be more along the lines of:
a. there is a God in the Judea-Christian sense
b. there is nothing
c. there is another sort of God that isn't particularly happy about this concept of a Judea-Christian God and is just waiting to make things really difficult and painful for smartasses who think they figured out the loophole like Pascal
d. the Buddhists are right (or Hindus, or Wiccans, or that cult that drank poisoned kool-aid)
e. the human God evolved from a monkey god and then created the Earth, the Universe, man as well as animals whose purpose (apparently) is to keep meat fresh until God's chosen decide they need a hamburger(to reconcile Evolution and Creationism)
It's also not entirely clear that going through the motions of worship to hedge your bets and avoid punishment really constitutes belief.
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