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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: DOES Inferno really suck like everyone thinks?
Thread: DOES Inferno really suck like everyone thinks? This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted May 24, 2005 07:10 AM

Quote:

.for example inferno would suck on bb template which has only necro second towns.



Well Spy first of all wellcome to HC(first thread in wich i see your name in )

From what i can see, you must be a big fan of demon hearding.To me this sounds interesting, but not very practical.I mean you'll have your pitlords around day 3-4 week 2 and in most cases the endfight would be around week 4 day 2-3 the latest; so you'll have about 13 days to demon heard.As for the army you can afford to lose, i's say about 80 imps,50 gogs,about 40 cerberi,50 centaurs and let's say 30 dwarves.I'd say this is one of the luckiest possibilities.Let's say you manage to suicide the full stack in every single battle(wich is preety hard to do as marreti said cos a single morale attack can mess up your plans big time), i didn't do the exact math, but i reckon from this army you'll get under 100 demons, maybe about 80(please correct me if i'm wrong).Now while you chain all your troups from place to place and focus on demon hearding, you won't have enough time to boost up your main right and in the endfight i reckon you'll have about 120 demons vs your oponent's 40, but he'll have the hell hounds&magogs and much bigger stats.

IMHO inferno would be suited for rushing rather than for gathering demons.As soon as you have exp slow, even horde unicorns can be defeated with only 1 demon.To me this aproach is much more appealing, cos it stimulates the players intelect instead of just struggling to lose as much army as possible vs the AI.Also endless turns and silly fights just ain't my thing.I would rather risk a break early week 2 on extreme,jebus or even BB, than wait 4 weeks to grow some demons.

To answer Andy, yes i think AA+ cons leave AD no chance in endfight and that's what i meant when saying that they suck in endfight.

just my 2 cents here
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted May 24, 2005 07:37 AM

Quote:

Why? coz you use all those low levels as fodder, in battles where you need them.


I couldn't agree more.In some battles you really need some fodders to sacrifice.Raising demons prevents all losses(in theory but IMHO it is impossible to predict exactly just how much fodder will you lose in every battle,cos sometimes as said earlier you end up with one critter left from the stack and no one to kill it so that demons can be raised).
Quote:

I rarely used a whole stack of lets say 80 imps in 1 battle as fodder, try splitting them up.


hehe even a n00b like me would do this lol
Quote:

Also the main reason why demon hording rules is: as soon as you ran out of fodder, use the demons themselves...
present a stack of lets say 10 demons to strong monsters, and than raise them back at the end of the battle. That way you never run outta fodder.


This is intaresting and new at the same time(at least for me it is).But this doesn't add any more demons, instead you risk to lose some if the whole stack isn't killed, whereas when using a good old imp fodder you won't lose nada.(well 1 or 2 imps equals nada , 9 demons are worth something)
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted May 24, 2005 11:19 AM
Edited By: maretti on 24 May 2005

Quote:



IMHO inferno would be suited for rushing rather than for gathering demons.As soon as you have exp slow, even horde unicorns can be defeated with only 1 demon.To me this aproach is much more appealing, cos it stimulates the players intelect instead of just struggling to lose as much army as possible vs the AI.Also endless turns and silly fights just ain't my thing.I would rather risk a break early week 2 on extreme,jebus or even BB, than wait 4 weeks to grow some demons.





This is pure nonesense. U are talking about endless turns by demon farming but think its ok to take on horde unicorns with 1 devil. Btw u will lose that fight unless u have 400 spellpoints and spirit of oppresion.

I once played a guy who took on horde gold golems with 1 devil. After 1 hour he retreated. Thats what I call an endless turn.

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nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted May 24, 2005 01:54 PM

tigris listen

"I mean you'll have your pitlords around day 3-4 week 2 and in most cases the endfight would be around week 4 day 2-3 the latest; so you'll have about 13 days to demon heard.As for the army you can afford to lose, i's say about 80 imps,50 gogs,about 40 cerberi,50 centaurs and let's say 30 dwarves.I'd say this is one of the LUCKIEST possibilities.Let's say you manage to suicide the full stack in every single battle(wich is preety hard to do as marreti said cos a single morale attack can mess up your plans big time), i didn't do the exact math, but i reckon from this army you'll get under 100 demons, maybe about 80(please correct me if i'm wrong).Now while you chain all your troups from place to place and focus on demon hearding, you won't have enough time to boost up your main right and in the endfight i reckon you'll have about 120 demons vs your oponent's 40, but he'll have the hell hounds&magogs and much bigger stats."


first of all anything i describe here is not BEST CASE its avarage case!,i've reached much more and had games with much less demons,amount of demons is affected by ALOT of things.

and the situation ur describing above starting to demon farming week 2 day 4 and having 13 days(that's alot! almost 2 weeks)
i would have an avarage of 150-160 demons. and all that chaining ur describing doesn't hurt any of my hero stats or anything else if anything it helps for any time i can demon harvest i can kill much strong units then usual for the reason that in a normal combat with other towns its like u would lose creature but with inferno u just get more demons.. as you can see in my example on how to kill a throng of cyclops.
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted May 24, 2005 02:31 PM
Edited By: tigris on 24 May 2005

Quote:

This is pure nonesense. U are talking about endless turns by demon farming but think its ok to take on horde unicorns with 1 devil.

1 long turn doesn't equal about 2 weeks of harvesting.And thanx to Xarfax's cranim now the time required for such a battle isn't near 1 hour as you describe it in your post, but rather close to 10-15 min max.
Quote:


Btw u will lose that fight unless u have 400 spellpoints and spirit of oppresion.



About the sp needed(400 )i didn't do it with 1 devil, but with 2 and indead i had exp slow and spirit of opression; knoledge 9 and still some sp left.spell power was 6 or 7 i don't remember well.I also had a ballista wich helped a lot cos it kept the unis occupied for a couple of turns.

Maretti, maybe this exemple is a bit extreme, but this is i think one of the main advantages this castle has and IMHO it must be used to it's max.But please tell me what other castle allows you to break into your treasure zone on extreme or in the middle area on jebus early week 2 if you are lucky to get exp slow and some slow guards like nagas, dendroids,golems or even dread knights,cavs or unicorns?
Take Jebus template for exemple and a horde nagas as guards,same on my oponent's side.I play inferno and he plays castle(what else )If i don't take my chances and go for those nagas early week 2 i don't think i'll get to live more  than middle week 3 even if he has no cons, cos with 5 AA horde nagas are easy.
do you think inferno has any chances otherwise?
I tries it a couple of times and 2 or 3 times it actually worked(when i didn't get dragons guards )
Same goes for extreme.

@edit:I was curious about this demon hearding thing and made some tests.
1 pit lord raises 1 demon
2 pit lords raise 2 demons
3 pit lords raise 3 demons
4 pit lords raise 5 demons
5 pit lords raise 7 demons
6 pit lords raise 8 demons
7 pit lords raise10 demons
8 pit lords raise 11 demons
9 pit lords raise 12 demons
10 pit lords raise 14 demons out of 490 hp wich equals 49 pikemen or about 80 imps or about 38 gogs or around 20 cerberi.I guess this is about all the fodders you'll get till week 3 day 1. Sacrifice them all and you'll have 56 more demons.This isn't near as spectacular as 160-200 as Spy said.Plus on a poorer template, going for upgrade to pit lords equals 9 mercur so bye bye upgrade to devils till mid week 3 maybe even early week 4.Now with what army do you plan to fight those big fights then?with 1 devil?
Buying all that fodder doesn't come cheap eighter especially cos inferno is expensive by nature.

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nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted May 24, 2005 04:23 PM

your calcuation is wrong by many ways

get a +1 health art whoops u have about 15 more,buy all second heroes with other towns' creatures ,u have about 5 deamons in avarage per hero(if u get shakti or gretchin or bron or drakon each one will give you about 10+ usually)

get an imp dwelling that's about 1.5 more demons per week,get gogs dwelling,that's about 3+ demons per week,get cerebri dwelling that's 4+ demons per week
,get demon dwelling thats 5 more per week


get a box with 50 lvl 1's+ that's on avarage 9 demons,get units from a quest art,again avarage of 9,
49 pikemens? on true random you can get 4-5 towns by week 4 that's alot more then  49 pikemens,but letz take for example jebus(which usually have alott dwellings) with 2 second towns,if u don't get screwed with towns u have about 56 pikes,36 archers on one town and other has about same number of goblin\wolfs(for example)
as you can see the possibilities of getting stacks are endless and i didn't invent any numbers everything i said before was on my past game experience.



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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted May 24, 2005 07:10 PM

My calculations are exact.I tested everything i wrote there about the amount of demons that can be raised by 1 to 10 pit lords.I guess you are right dwells or arties can make some more demons.I wonder if sumoning isn't a good idea too?
Anyway i guess it depends on the playstyle and the skills of the player.I never did it in a game so what should i know.

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted May 24, 2005 08:01 PM

What good will summoning do? Elementals are non-living and therefore cannot be resurrected as demons. Also, if I remember correctly (and I probably don't), one pit lord can animate 45hp's worth of demons or so.
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Yolk and God bless.
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Plexus22
Plexus22


Known Hero
posted May 24, 2005 09:43 PM

Summoning doesn't work for sure because once a summoned stack is killed it dissappears from the battlefield completely.....there is no corpse to tranform into deamons.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 25, 2005 12:02 AM

this discussion is a toss, it basically says nevermindspy plays two rich templates with many towns and there he can get many demons according to himself.

Still in an inferno game andi vs nevermind i know who i would put my money on even if he went troelsen and havent played for a while. hint: his toh handle starts with "A" and ends with "ndiAngelSlayer"

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nevermind
nevermind


Famous Hero
posted May 25, 2005 12:19 AM

bring forth this foo you speak off

I shall crash him to dust ,showing everyone the true power of inferno's!!

(i love speaking this way)
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted May 25, 2005 12:00 PM

1 pit lord raises 50 HP's. That's exact and correct.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 02, 2005 04:27 PM
Edited By: maretti on 2 Dec 2005

Having played some games with inferno I have to agree with spy, inferno really works on maps where you dont meet to early like extreme, true random xl and in some cases blockbuster. Btw I think Spy deserves a qp for his post.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Veteranewbie
Veteranewbie


Adventuring Hero
posted December 30, 2005 03:55 PM

Inferno blows, it doesn't have a unit that excel at its level
Imp blows, expensive and crap
gog average and upgrade doesnt have the same usability as lich does
Dog is good, but not powerful
Only good thing Demon has is cheap
Fiend is alright, Pit Lord is way too expensive, the upgrade cost is ridiculous, even upgraded cows (with the kickass upgrade skill death stare) only cost from 525 - 600, fiends to lords cost jump from 500-700 for summon permanent demons which will cost your own units anyway, by itself it doesn't pack too much punch
Effreet, good is good but die too fast
AD same thing as efreet, plus too expensive

Generally for each town type there is some units that makes you feel more secure when you get them i.e. grand elf/gold dragon for rampart, marksman/angels/crusaders for csatle, vampire lord/dread knights for necro, beholder/medusa/dragon for dung, basilisk/cows for fortress, wolf raiders/rocs/behemoths for stronghold, AM/naga for tower etc. for inferno it doesn't has such effect
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DoddTheSlayer
DoddTheSlayer


Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
posted December 30, 2005 07:21 PM

Only thing that can make Inferno weak is a no joiners rule.
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LordOfDeath
LordOfDeath


Hired Hero
of the Dark knights
posted December 30, 2005 09:19 PM

Inferno is not so good if it don't have much of creatures. if you get arch-devils you can destroy the others much easier in wog you can upgrade the arch devil to hell baron. i think the hell baron is quite strong. but a little hard to get....

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Veteranewbie
Veteranewbie


Adventuring Hero
posted January 01, 2006 10:41 AM
Edited by Veteranewbie on 1 Jan 2006

demon hoarding just doesnt seem to worth it
an imp costs 50 while a demon cost only 250
it costs 9 imps for 1 demon so u get a 250 gold demon from 450 gold worth of imps, let alone the 200 gold upgrade cost without stats upgrade for a pit fiend into a pit lord
and having that much pitlords should able to give you a no casualties creeping anyway (except if u take ur imps u expected them to die)


Just one more question, can demon resurrection be performed more than 1 time per pit lords stack??
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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted January 01, 2006 01:57 PM

One time per battle per stack. Also, you do not take into consideration external level 1 dwellings which give free creatures. Then, consider joiners from wandering stacks.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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Yanzhangcan
Yanzhangcan


Known Hero
*Dance*
posted January 14, 2007 12:09 AM

An intriguing thing I found whilst playing the Inferno is the Pit Lord. I had the clone spell and Jarden, and about 50 pit lords. I had a small army as well, but most of them were being decimated by the dungeoun troops, and I had used my ressurection ability, so I used Clone. To my suprise, the pit lords were able to ressurect! I ressurected my devils into about 17 demons, then the medusae destroyed the clone. Wash rinse and repeat, I won easily, with a surplus 100+ demons

I like it, the demonic castle is just too good :]

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HeymlicH
HeymlicH


Famous Hero
posted January 14, 2007 02:40 AM

The good thing about Inferno is:
You can transform all the cheap units into one unit type: Demons. That way you get a lot of them - a real power stack.
You can do this with creatures that joined you, or creatures from different alignments, that wouldn't fit into your army.

You can play without almost no losses. In every fight you send in some fodder absorbing the damage and then resurrect demons. If you run out of fodder, make a stack of demons, let them be killed and resurrect.

Artifacts like Ring of Life are increasing the hitpoints of your units. That way you can increase the effectiveness of the demon raising, especially from imps.

Played correctly Inferno can be quite strong.

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