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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 [ This thread is 90 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 (12) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ]
Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted July 29, 2007 04:27 AM
Edited by Consis at 04:31, 29 Jul 2007.

Defacto

Mvassilev, I'll answer your question directly.

It's like this: Let's say I'm in a room with 10 people and it's up to those 10 people to elect whom their president will be. If all 10 people vote then that's a 100% of the vote. While standing in the room I over hear 4 people say they will vote for a candidate because he is black. I hear 2 people say they will vote for a candidate based on something good. I hear 2 more people say they will vote for a different candidate based on something good as well.

4 = racist vote
2 = due process
2 = due process
1 = unknown

At this point I am the unknown. The people voting entirely based on race in favor of the black candidate have 40% at this point which could be a frighteningly possible majority. I will now base my vote entirely against those whom have openly declared voting in favor of a black president because he is black.

That is why people are calling me racist. I'm not a racist person but my vote was devoted to offsetting a racist vote. If I think too many people are voting for a guy simply because he is black and my vote is to stop them then my vote is exactly as you and everyone have clearly observed with correct assumptions: A vote based on race. It would be a defacto racist vote. In "fact" it would be a racist vote but I'm not "actually" a racist person.

My whole point is if I see too many people improperly voting for the office of president of United States based on any number of unfounded reasons I am the kind of person that will deliberately alter my vote to fight the ignorance. Same thing goes if I saw too many people voting for: Who is most popular, who has the most money, who has the lightest skin color, who has the most powerful family, etc. My vote would go opposite to any one of the candidates displaying too much support for the reasons I just listed.

In the simplest of terms: If I see you voting for black guy just cuz he's black then I'll vote against him cuz you're ignorant.
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Setitetart
Setitetart


Known Hero
Reality check....
posted July 29, 2007 05:53 AM

Quote:
In the simplest of terms: If I see you voting for black guy just cuz he's black then I'll vote against him cuz you're ignorant.


I must interject something here...if you SEE me voting for ANY one...that curtain isn't CLOSED good enough.

Sorry, had to be a snot.
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~ Peter Lorre to Vincent Price at Bela Lugosi's funeral

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 29, 2007 02:30 PM

So, de facto, you might as well be a racist.

Quote:
In the simplest of terms: If I see you voting for black guy just cuz he's black then I'll vote against him cuz you're ignorant.

Wouldn't it be better for you to set an example and vote for someone because of their merits, and not react to what other people are doing? Don't worry about what other people are voting for or why; vote for what you think is best.
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ByteBandit
ByteBandit


Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
posted July 29, 2007 03:48 PM

Fred Thompson, Republican from Tennessee, will be the Next President of the U.S. If you watch Law & Order on TV, he's the Prosecuters' Boss. I saw a speech by him when the Republicans had their debate, he was'nt in the debate, but his speech was more brilliant than any of all the candidates running for Pres. Once he declares his candicicy for President, all others, Democrats and Republicans combined, are out.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted July 29, 2007 09:51 PM
Edited by Consis at 21:55, 29 Jul 2007.

Mvassilev,

Quote:
So, de facto, you might as well be a racist.

True. I cannot argue with that. And...we've made a lot of contrived, detailed, and descriptive posts talking about the how complicated the matter is (well probably just me) but the average Joe-Bag-of-Doughnuts walking down the street gets it. He understands it almost like a second nature. One little mention from me of exactly what I said to you people here and I'd get a harsh stinging realistic smack to the jaw probably. So that means you guys were right to call it like you saw it. No matter how I word it or explain it...it is indeed a racist thing. I just don't know how else to defend against it. It makes me afraid that people would do such a thing, but sure enough, both black and white people, some are voting for Barack because he is black. People (some of whom I know) to be of sound mind. It wouldn't bother me if they were simply a bunch of idiotic losers from some racist cult. Those rejects pull that sort of nonsense ALL the time.

Let's say you have a toolbox that you use for all of the problems in your life. If all you have is a hammer then all your problems are going to look like nails. It's over simplification at its worst.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted July 29, 2007 10:12 PM

Quote:
both black and white people, some are voting for Barack because he is black.

So you are voting against him just because they're voting for him. This is what your detailed explanations come to. But why don't you vote based on what the candidate says and does, as opposed to his supporters? You could look at his merits, and encourage others to do the same.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted July 29, 2007 10:28 PM

I Don't Know

I'm just afraid.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted August 03, 2007 04:32 AM

Yikes!

I officially rescind my bodacious snide remark that Obama will not win the 2008 election. It's wrong to be so arrogant and rude as to dash about someone else's hopes for their presidential nominee.

Now watch this interview of Ron Paul by a snarky journalist:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=q-ywngi3i-0&mode=related&search=

I don't ever want to be like that rude jerk!
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted August 05, 2007 11:21 PM
Edited by Peacemaker at 15:40, 07 Aug 2007.

Quote:
* In 1985, Obama moved to Chicago to direct a non-profit project assisting local churches to organize job training programs
Finally something worth reading! I will do some checking into this. This definitely qualifies as substance!


Hi Consis.

Read the book; it's all in there, at least his first 34 years.  (Remember, you said you'd do that?)  The rest you can get by reading the second one, the Audacity of Hope.

As for the rest of your "snarky" remarks, it amazes me that you rudely comment on the biography, in most cases knowing nothing about that you are talking about, and then turn right around and accuse someone else in a political dialogue in the press of being "rude."  Not that I disagree with you.  I agree with you completely.  It's just your repeated, chronic hypocricy I find distasteful.  

The thing I regret is wiping out my biographical sketch of Hillary Clinton that same day, which as you would have seen was remarkably similar (except he's never been the First Lady, and she didn't serve several terms in the state senate.  Oh yeah, and she served on several corporate Boards, including Wal-Mart, for years and years).  I could have easily come back with some similar "snarky" remarks about her, but that was NOT THE FUNCTION OF THE EXERCISE.  The function of the exercise was to do a comparison and then LET THE DATA SPEAK FOR ITSELF.  Unfortunately, I was well more than two hours into it when it got wiped out, and I simply don't have time to reproduce it all right now.  I will, though, as soon as I get a chance.  Just let it be a lesson to all of you:  Make SURE, after you've crafted a long post, to hit the "SUBMIT REPLY" button, instead of the "CLEAR FIELDS" button which is poorly placed right next to it...

Meantime, Consis, keep polishing up on your clever snarkiness.  One day you might become a regular modern-day "journalist;" even co-host the Bill O'Reilly Show for Fox "News."

Just keep going, my friend... the shallowness of your analysis, and the depth of your bias, are revealing themselves nicely.  I really don't have to say anything, since you're doing it all for me.  


P.S.

Quote:
* On the first day of the Democratic-controlled 110th Congress, in a column published in the Washington Post, Obama called for an end to "any and all practices that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a public servant has become indebted to a lobbyist." He joined with Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) in strengthening restrictions on travel in corporate jets to S.1, the Legislative Transparency and Accountability Act of 2007, which passed the Senate with a 96-2 majority.
Is there some reason why I don't see Senator John McCain's name in there? Interesting selection process you have there.

My exclusion of McCain was an oversight, if he was involved.  But aren't you thinking of "McCain/Feingold" reform on campaign finance?  That was a different one (circa 1995???). McCain has been, at times, my favorite Republican hopeful, except on those days when he was kissing up to Bush.  I thought you knew that???  Anyway, that snarky remark falls right into the "sarcastically uninformed" category that most of your other remarks do...
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted August 05, 2007 11:32 PM
Edited by Peacemaker at 23:53, 05 Aug 2007.

Oh Yeah, just one more thing, at least for now...

Consis, before you run screaming from the building flailing your hands over my "accusation" that you are being repeatedly, consistently hypocritical --

Quote:
In the simplest of terms: If I see you voting for black guy just cuz he's black then I'll vote against him cuz you're ignorant.


I want you to ask yourself a question, and do everything in your ability to truly answer it to yourself honestly...

Would you be voting for Hillary Clinton if she weren't a woman?

But wait -- it gets better:

EVEN IF THE ANSWER IS YES: You do notice, do you not, that most of the people you discuss her with cite THE FACT THAT SHE IS A WOMAN as THEIR first stated reason they are voting for her?

By your own logic, would that not disqualify her as forcing you to cast your vote against sexism, such fear being cast into your heart?

What was that violent flower was pointing out about your "shallow comments having given absolutely no critical thought toward what is being said?"

Oh wait.  I stand corrected.  That was YOU who said that first...
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted August 05, 2007 11:56 PM
Edited by Peacemaker at 23:58, 05 Aug 2007.

Well, maybe just one more thing..

-- as a perfect example of clever, shallow snarkiness:

Quote:

* Entered Harvard Law School in 1988
A smart guy. He must've made the attendance quota for people of his race. Many schools are required to have a certain number of ethnically diverse students.


"Quota shoe-ins" do not become editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Review, my friend.  I tried to explain the siginificance of this to you before, but one again it's something you don't want to know, so you simply ignored it and are now, once again, ridiculing something about which you obviously know nothing.
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pandora
pandora


Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
posted August 06, 2007 04:28 AM
Edited by pandora at 04:28, 06 Aug 2007.

<< filler in case Weepy has something more to add >>


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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted August 16, 2007 04:56 PM
Edited by Consis at 17:00, 16 Aug 2007.

Developments

Karl Rove says that Hillary's negative polling numbers are the highest of any candidate that ever tried running for president. He says that she is fatally flawed, that she could win her party nomination but not the general election.

Joe Biden's son will be deployed to Iraq.

Whether I like or dislike Rove does not detract from the fact that this man is a proven source of reliable political information. I believe what he is saying. For me personally, it all comes back to the reason why I was leaning against Obama. The thought had occured to me that some people might be doing the exact same thing for Hillary. Some people might actually be openly stating that they'll vote for Hillary solely to further women's rights. And just as I was inclined to vote against Obama for that reason so too must millions of people be voting against Hillary to stem a mockery of the justice system in the same way.

Voting for a candidate based solely on his/her ethnicity or gender is immeasurably flawed. I believe it will cause a violent calculated backlash as it did so with me.

I also have been observing a most curious and unpredictable occurance with Barack Obama. It seems some people are indeed claiming he is not 'black enough'. I am severely flummoxed. The more I look into it the more I think I can understand it a little I suppose. Eh...maybe 'black enough' is defined as having some sort of connection to a specific ethnic "black" culture. Eh....some kind of right of passage as having been wronged by "the man" at some point??? This sole issue of oddly ill-defined "blackness" is so distorted it almost seems like it could be used against any candidate of darker skin color. Here again we can clearly see people using ethnicity and skin color as a major political deciding point on whom to vote for. I never would have predicted a man of darkened skin color being told he isn't "black enough" to be someone's candidate for president, not in a million years.

The existence of such a thing in voting can and will cause an untold number of violent political backlashes. One off the top of my head would be ethnic hispanics declaring any candidate that meets the requirements as defined in being "black enough" would immediately become a candidate not open to the issues, affecting them, that are important to them, and so important with other specified ethnic groups. Pandering to a single ethnicity will draw unequivical political battle lines in the sand. We need to unite our country for the challenges that lay ahead.
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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted August 16, 2007 09:01 PM

Quote:
Karl Rove says that Hillary's negative polling numbers are the highest of any candidate that ever tried running for president. He says that she is fatally flawed, that she could win her party nomination but not the general election.

That worries me, the Democratic frontrunner has lower overall support than the Democratic 2nd place. And I don't like Hillary.

Quote:
I also have been observing a most curious and unpredictable occurance with Barack Obama. It seems some people are indeed claiming he is not 'black enough'.

Perhaps it's because he's not a G from da hood!

Serioiusly, though, he doesn't fit into the modern culture/stereotype of African-Americans: that described in rap. He doesn't wear pants with dragging bottoms. He graduated from college. And he doesn't want to be ghetto. While I think that he can set a good example to millions of African-American youths, he has low support among those who think that being a gangsta is the height of existance.
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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted August 27, 2007 01:32 PM
Edited by Wolfman at 13:33, 27 Aug 2007.

Consis, that vote of yours would not be considered racist to me, wasted maybe, but not racist.  The people voting FOR Obama because he is black would be the racist ones.  But of course this is coming from the person that everyone called a racist a ways back...

I wouldn't vote for Obama purely on his platform, but then again I'm not a Democrat.  I could see someone trying to call me a racist for not supporting Obama.

Romney is the one who has my support right now, he has the best platform of anyone running in my opinion.  But of course...I'm a Republican.

And Peacemaker, nice to see you still here, surprising a little, but nice.
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Don't assume you know anything
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Best idea would be to ask.

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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted August 27, 2007 06:14 PM
Edited by Consis at 18:16, 27 Aug 2007.

LoL Somebody Get The President On The Phone! Wolfman's Back!

Welcome back young one! Except this time you're eligible to vote!!! Oh boy I can't wait to see you preaching to all the people who need to wake up and get a clue! I think it's simply grand that you've always been so excited to vote at your age. I don't care whom you vote for because I know your vote will be more informed and critical than most of the people in this country. I always remember the things you told us about your parents under Clinton. To this very day I have taken that story to heart as something to carefully consider when imagining a Clinton in office again. Of course I don't know for sure and have never met you. I probably never will but something inside me tells me to trust what you told us about your parents losing their jobs. That information has always held the highest credibility of weight in matters of regard towards the Clintons in office. Good to have you back.

Seperately...I should probably let folks know that I have officially purchased my own copy of Barack Obama's book "Dreams From My Father" as per my promise to Peacemaker. I gave my word and I am in the process of honoring it. *chuckle* In fact, I suppose I should also mention that I haven't been able to put the book down since I bought it! I have thus far found it to quite an enjoyable reading experience.

Don't you worry Peacemaker! I'll have an informed opinion of the book as soon as I finish reading it....which might be surprisingly quick. Before I bought it, I was devilishly plotting to only read 1-2 pages a day just to spite Peacemaker. Now I know why the book is located on the bestseller list.
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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted August 27, 2007 06:45 PM

Have you lost support for the person you were sure you would vote for 2 or so years ago?  

I've been able to vote for two years now, but the next election will be my first presidential election.  I only missed the last one by 7 months.

I've been looking at a lot of different things, mainly their own speeches on youtube.  Youtube is nice because it splits up their speeches by issue.  So I went around and listened to each candidate talk about immigration for instance, and decided who I would pick based on the one issue.  Then I would move to the next one.  Romney is articulate (that's not racist because he's a white guy ) and he has good ideas.  Rudy just seems like too much of a softy as does Obama in my opinion.  
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Don't assume you know anything
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted August 27, 2007 06:50 PM

No Of Course Not

I am still supporting Hillary Clinton. But I am also in the process of convincing Peacemaker of a hundred plus one reasons to not vote for Obama. I need to read this book as part of my attempt. I made a promise to her in this thread. You might try reading some of it before moving forward. We have discussed a lot of things.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
HC SUPPORTER
posted August 27, 2007 09:10 PM
Edited by mvassilev at 21:10, 27 Aug 2007.

What's so good about Mitt Romney? Ron Paul is the only decent Republican.
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Antipaladin
Antipaladin


Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
posted August 27, 2007 09:19 PM

whats so good with republican?
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