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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: United States President: 2008
Thread: United States President: 2008 [ This thread is 90 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 (76) 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 ]
Moonlith
Moonlith


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Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted November 10, 2008 12:00 AM

I was about to say...

That was a nice display of ignorance Elodin.

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Elodin
Elodin


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posted November 10, 2008 02:06 AM

Quote:
I was about to say...

That was a nice display of ignorance Elodin.


Thank you for personal insult.

The fact remains liberal elitist Europe have no racial minority in position of power and not representative percentage of minority in parlimentary bodies. One can only conclude racism is reason.

Yet you claim "the USA are still FAR behind compared to europe for example?" Your claim lacks merit.






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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted November 10, 2008 04:00 AM

Asking why there hasn't been a black person as chancellor in Germany is the same as asking why there hasn't been a chinese president in the United States.
You have to look up how many persons out of these ethnic cultures are active in politics at all. I know some "turkish" (major foreign group in germany) politicians here, but can't think of any black or chinese. So if there isn't any black here who WANTS to be active in politics and WANTS to get elected as member of the board of managment of a party, there will never be a black chancellor. That easy.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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Undefeatable Hero
posted November 10, 2008 05:59 AM

Err, excuse me, but Obama isn't black. He is HALF black and HALF white which doesn't make him more black than white. He's blacker than white and whiter than black, and saying he's blach is denying half of him.

So, no, the US don't have a black president; they have the first president who isn't fully white. That he counts as black, in my opinion THAT is indeed a statement of racism.

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del_diablo
del_diablo


Legendary Hero
Manifest
posted November 10, 2008 06:27 AM

Quote:
Asking why there hasn't been a black person as chancellor in Germany is the same as asking why there hasn't been a chinese president in the United States.
You have to look up how many persons out of these ethnic cultures are active in politics at all. I know some "turkish" (major foreign group in germany) politicians here, but can't think of any black or chinese. So if there isn't any black here who WANTS to be active in politics and WANTS to get elected as member of the board of managment of a party, there will never be a black chancellor. That easy.


Same situation here in Norway, some people bother and others don't. And alot is happy with just being major of the town.
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Minion
Minion


Supreme Hero
posted November 10, 2008 07:30 AM

Quote:
That he counts as black, in my opinion THAT is indeed a statement of racism.


I bet you are exaggerating here. People who don't know his origins are easy to say that he is black because of his skincolor. Visual data. So a person who sees a picture of Obama elected as president, and is thinking that USA got a black president, is a racist?

-------

Btw the entire discussion about Europe vs. USA is rediculous. The can't be compared on the race issue, they have completely different demography. USA is sometimes called "the melting pot" because it contains people from variety of cultures, and has several substancial minoritity groups

# Hispanic or Latino ethnicity, of any race: 14.8% or about 44.3 million
# Black or African American alone: 13.4% or 40.9 million
# Some other race alone: 6.5% or 19 million
# Asian alone: 4.4% or 13.1 million
# Two or more races: 2.0% or 6.1 million

These alone constitute 40% of the population.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 10, 2008 07:54 AM

Well, that IS the racism: he isn't WHITE, so he is black, isn't he? And it's not said by Europeans only.
I mean, why would a guy that is exactly half black and half white, having a black mother and a white father be considered a BLACK president BY MOST OF HIS OWN FELLOW AMERICANS, if there was no racism (anymore)? The only explanation is that the white half isn't counting as much as the black half that has "tainted" the pure white to something akin to black.
It means, that there is white, actually, and that there is not-white, and that is racist or expression of the racist mindset still dominating.

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted November 10, 2008 08:52 AM

He is considered black because he looks black. If he looked about equally in between black and white, then it would be different, but usually one can hardly tell if a person is full black or half black.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 10, 2008 09:06 AM

Ok, so it's not only racist, it's biassed as well, because it's enough if a person LOOKS black to put him onto the other side of the fence, so much so, that none of the plethora of TV reporters, columnists, journalists and so on never even hinted on Obama being actually halfway between black and white? Is that what you want to say?

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mvassilev
mvassilev


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posted November 10, 2008 09:17 AM

Well, race is a social construct. I'm sure that if both of my parents were white yet I somehow looked black, everyone would consider me black. And there's a lot more than "hinting" at his mixed-race heritage - everyone talks about that all the time.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 10, 2008 09:45 AM

But isn't that exactly what racism is all about?
Instead he's called the first black president - which is twisting the truth, actually. I mean, you don't call Schwarzenegger the first Austrian Gouvernor either, don't you?

So I maintain that when Obama is called the first black president they actually mean the first president who isn't white, actually, and that it doesn't really matter whether he's half black, or Hispanic, Chinese or Zulu. The only thing that matters seems to be he isn't white, making him black, since he looks that way, making him stand out.

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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted November 10, 2008 09:54 AM

Don't make such a fuss, people are racist all over the place. "Political correct" speech is just a manner of hiding that.
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 10, 2008 10:09 AM

What's that supposed to mean? That it's ok, because people just are that way and it's not worth mentioning?

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Minion
Minion


Supreme Hero
posted November 10, 2008 11:42 AM

You totally misuse the word racism.

1  : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race  

2  : racial prejudice or discrimination  



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TheDeath
TheDeath


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posted November 10, 2008 11:46 AM

Quote:
What's that supposed to mean? That it's ok, because people just are that way and it's not worth mentioning?
No sorry. I meant that with your definition, everyone is racist, so the fact that it played a role isn't significant, since it happens all the time, why would this be any special?
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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 10, 2008 12:50 PM

Quote:
You totally misuse the word racism.

1  : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race  

2  : racial prejudice or discrimination  




Don't you think that racism is the belief as well that racial differences produce an inherent INFERIORITY of a particular race?

Second, where do I misuse the word, when I state that when they ignore the fact that Obama is actually half white, it is akin to saying, half black, full black who cares when you are not full white?

And to TheDeath I say this: you can make laws against racism and for the equality of different races, but when something has been part of a society for a long time, a certain mindset has rooted so deep that it becomes "natural". That's why a certain racism is there as well as a certain kind of male chauvinism - it's something that takes generations to disappear and isn't necessarily a conscious thing.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted November 10, 2008 09:01 PM
Edited by TitaniumAlloy at 21:08, 10 Nov 2008.

Quote:
Err, excuse me, but Obama isn't black. He is HALF black and HALF white which doesn't make him more black than white. He's blacker than white and whiter than black, and saying he's blach is denying half of him.

So, no, the US don't have a black president; they have the first president who isn't fully white. That he counts as black, in my opinion THAT is indeed a statement of racism.



Dude, he's the first non-caucasian president.
Anything else just complicates things

Quote:
why would a guy that is exactly half black and half white, having a black mother and a white father be considered a BLACK president BY MOST OF HIS OWN FELLOW AMERICANS, if there was no racism (anymore)?

It's not racism, he is black, of a certain percentage, but that's irrelevant whether he be half or a third or 3/4 or whatever, he's the first president to be even kind of black and that's what's new, and that's what people refer to when they say the first black president. Because he is.
How is that racist, saying that?
Do they really need to say "Barack Obama, the first half black half white president of the United States" or whatever
He's both black and white, but there have been plenty of white presidents so it's not really news
You're just being over sensitive lol





@Elodin:
There are over 41 million blacks in america, compared to the entire population of Australia being only 21 million, and 7 million in Switzerland, and the ethnic minority percentage of that is a tiny population in comparison to the US.

I'm not sure about the ethnicity of Australian power but I do know that the mayor of Melbourne, Australia's second largest city, is of chinese background, and there are other ethnicities such as Korean in power.
It also must be said that the demography of Australia gives only a few percent to ethnic minorities, representing only a few million total.

The population of ethnic minorities, and to a greater extent blacks, are negligible compared to the US.

Your argument simply doesn't hold up.

Also there are so many blacks in the US because the migrate en masse to the US? Are you serious?



I'm not saying that the US is behind or in front of any nation.
I'm just saying that your borderline nationalist defence is flawed.

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OmegaDestroyer
OmegaDestroyer

Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
posted November 10, 2008 10:16 PM

Agreed.  Better arguments would have been Jewish leaders in Germany, Armenian leaders in Turkey, Irish-born prime ministers of England, etc, etc.
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Elodin
Elodin


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posted November 11, 2008 02:30 AM

TitaniumAlloy
Quote:
Also there are so many blacks in the US because the migrate en masse to the US? Are you serious?


I did not say that. I said perhaps Britian is not so welcoming to blacks as is US as reason black population not increase there. And I said masses of peoples immigrate to US.

Fact remains ethnic minorities (not just black, as I mentioned before) have been unable to be elected in any Eropean country as top position and also are underrepresented in parlimenatary bodies.

So fact remains that those who claimed US is far behind Europe cannot back up claim. But no matter what I say there will always be US bashers bashing America.

But watch and see now if some European countries might elect ethnic minority leader in near future since America is leading the way.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


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posted November 11, 2008 03:24 AM
Edited by JollyJoker at 03:49, 11 Nov 2008.

You people have a strange opinion.

Let's review the facts. Obama is 50% white and 50% afro-American. He's obviously NEITHER white NOR black, but something in between. That he is called black just demonstrates how racist the past was, since mixes between white and black are considered black.

But in fact Obama represents the minority of MIXED ethnic background. He plays in the same league than someone who is 50% white and Hispanic or 50% white and Indian or 50% white and Chinese. IN THEORY, if there was NO racist background, he would play in the same league as a 50% black and Hispanic mix (and what would THAT be called? Black as well?).
But as I said, you are either white or not, the rest doesn't matter, which shows, at least, how bad racism has been, and how it has influenced attitude and mindset of people.

For representatives of ethnic minorities - we have that in Germany. We have representatives with Turkish background and we have women as well, even in the highes position.

Moreover, if you just had 8 years with one of the worst duds ever in the highest office and your choice was between an old follower of the desaster party who got beaten by the dud 8 years ago and a charismatic young and energetic MIXED ethnic who's mom is white, it's no fair comparison - as I said, they sacrificed McPain again and leave the cleaning to the others. Just wait for the howling that will follow, if next May comes and not everyone is faring a lot better than now.

However, even in that situation, if Palin had been what McPain did expect her to be and not been so obviously only a bag of hot air, I don't want to know how that election would have faired. A really charismatic and in-control Palin with something of a young, liberal touch - not too liberal, mind you - might have tilted things the other way round.

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