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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 25, 2008 03:33 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 03:37, 25 Nov 2008.
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Moderation, please.
Shall I start calling Elodin Reason Hater, Liberal Basher and so on?
I officially protest against the use of these silly polemic generalizations: just because someone doesn't like the course of the actual US government they are not American Haters or Bashers, just as someone who says he doesn't like the stance of the Pope to condoms due to the AIDS situation especially in Africa is not a Christian or Religion hater!
And I object to the numerous personal insults that those who constantly attack America throw my way. As well as lies said about what I have said and lies told about America.
I also find wishing millions of people in Washington to die in nuclear explosion to be objectionable. If I were wishing millions of Jews or blacks to die I would be racist.
There is very much posting to goad others by certain people.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 25, 2008 07:53 AM |
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Would you all mind coming back to the main topic?
This is not about America lovers or America haters, but about american presidents. And please try to raise the level of this discussion back to minimum standard of respect. I'm sure you're all mature enough to respect each other no matter if you like America or not..
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 08:14 AM |
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I'm sure you're all mature enough to respect each other no matter if you like America or not..
I doubt that very much; respecting each other has nothing to do with maturity, but with earning it - and standards differ, obviously.
In any case I won't respect an opinion that disqualifies each and every statement by putting it into a "Hate America" drawer first. I've tried to explain that a government of a country is not the whole country - if it was you've had had to eliminate the whole of Germany and not only its leadership after WW2. Consequently it is completely foolish to cry America hater as soon as someone dares to critisize an action of the US government. It's just cheap polemics that tries to pull every point into irrationality and bias.
This kind of generalizing is setting a certain tone, right? Couple that America hater with some more callous remarks about the inevitability of civilian losses in the great war for Iraq's freedom and you can't blame people coming up with harsh remarks.
It would be helpful if we could leave those stupid labels out. It poisons a discussion, if posts begin with accusations: Liar, Basher and Hater isn't better than Fool, Moron or Idiot.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 25, 2008 09:55 AM |
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I also find wishing millions of people in Washington to die in nuclear explosion to be objectionable. If I were wishing millions of Jews or blacks to die I would be racist.
If we say there will always be civian causualities, we would attempt to avoid it. Or minimize it.
Sending in a elite assasin team or similar would likely not get the job done, a nuke would. A mini-nuke so long anybody does not have the flue, etc.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 25, 2008 03:34 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 15:35, 25 Nov 2008.
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In any case I won't respect an opinion that disqualifies each and every statement by putting it into a "Hate America" drawer first.
I do not put every statement into "Hate America" drawer. But every word of yours for America is hate filled with many false allegations made.
And of course I could go back though the discussions I have been in and point out many insults that have been thrown my way by the people who hate America.
Whole reason I became involved in this thread was because of false allegations that were made.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 03:50 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
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In any case I won't respect an opinion that disqualifies each and every statement by putting it into a "Hate America" drawer first.
I do not put every statement into "Hate America" drawer.
But every word of yours for America is hate filled with many false allegations made.
And of course I could go back though the discussions I have been in and point out many insults that have been thrown my way by the people who hate America.
Whole reason I became involved in this thread was because of false allegations that were made.
MODERATION!!!!!!!! PLEASE, dammit!
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 25, 2008 07:16 PM |
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It is amazing you would call for moderator. You said I am "extreme religious right," hypocrit, and ignorant in this thread.
Every post you make about America or Christian is derogatory with many things made up. So why should I not say you hate America when you prove it by your posting.
You also say someone else was "just conjuring stuff" which is fancy way of saying lie yet you object if I say lie when someone mayke up story about what I say or make up something about America.
I prefer friendly or at least civil discussion. Hopefully everyone will cease insults and stick to issues.
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted November 25, 2008 07:23 PM |
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America did not cursh Iraq. America attacked terrorist and is working with Iraqi's to complete driving of terrorist out of Iraq. America also is rebuilding Iraq.
First of all, I would like to say that Elodin has been a good debater on this, in that he didn't get mad or started swearing. Consequently, I apologise for previous sarcasm.
Anyway, I then respond to you:
1) There are always better ways than war to resolve this, so here I believe America to be at fault. Consequently, I do not believe Saddam as evil as he's made out to be. And all information I'd look up on him would be biased now! 
2) I am also having a hard time believing they would spend time and resources on building in Iraq.
3) I find it hard to believe iraqi's and americans would even cooperate on any level, at all. In fact, there's a LOT of protest going on right NOW, to plead for America to leave (Bush effigy anyone?)
4) So, here our argument stops, since I believe in different facts.
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted November 25, 2008 07:27 PM |
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And, childish though it may be, I'm tired of your horrid grammar. If you were not a native English speaker, it wouldn't bother me, but you're supposedly an America and yet you still can't even get basic subject verb number agreement accurate
This is true it is hard to argue in English when one can't properly write it. You can't convey how you feel on a forum like this without it written in such a way that we can understand you. Makes it too easy for one to back peddle.
On a different note I feel Obama will probably have several attempts on his life, we already have second graders chanting for him to be assassinated...Ok that was in Idaho I believe but nonetheless. There are groups forming right now to figure out a way to take him out.The economic crisis as well as him being elected I feel we have only begun to see the US slide downhill....Not only a depression but a civil war if Obama continues with his anti gun policies...
Now don't miss understand I voted for him, I believe in him, I think he will try to make great change....Just don't know with the bail outs and other changes that are going on if he will be able to.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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angelito
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proud father of a princess
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posted November 25, 2008 08:14 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:14, 25 Nov 2008.
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In any case I won't respect an opinion that disqualifies each and every statement by putting it into a "Hate America" drawer first.
I do not put every statement into "Hate America" drawer.
But every word of yours for America is hate filled with many false allegations made.
And of course I could go back though the discussions I have been in and point out many insults that have been thrown my way by the people who hate America.
Whole reason I became involved in this thread was because of false allegations that were made.
MODERATION!!!!!!!! PLEASE, dammit!
Watch out your behaviour and stop swearing. If you don't like to discuss with a special member, just ignore his/her posts, but stop calling the police every second post. We are watching this thread carefully and will act if needed.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 08:24 PM |
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Every post you make about America or Christian is derogatory with many things made up. So why should I not say you hate America when you prove it by your posting.
*sigh* MODERATION!
Ok, for explanation.
I want a prove for the claim in the first sentence. It is wrong. I could add, that PROBABLY every post I made about current president Bush and his government is derogatory. However, and thank god for it, Bush is not America!
I don't hate America! I defend president Clinton, I stake high hopes on Obama, I just love lots of American rock bands and authors like Mark Twain, Raymond Chandler or Texas-born Joe Lansdale, to go through the times.
I could add a lot here, especially about Religion, since you mention it, but why should I?
I repeat, Moderation, please make sure that these polemic generalizing stops.
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TheDeath
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with serious business
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posted November 25, 2008 08:31 PM |
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I think JJ is right
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 08:37 PM |
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Quote:
MODERATION!!!!!!!! PLEASE, dammit!
Watch out your behaviour and stop swearing. If you don't like to discuss with a special member, just ignore his/her posts, but stop calling the police every second post. We are watching this thread carefully and will act if needed.
Well, I've called the police AND GOT NO ANSWER!
Is he allowed to say that?
If he is:
It's nice to see that there are so many liberal haters among moderation.
I hope you see the sarcasm here.
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Elodin
Promising
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Free Thinker
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posted November 26, 2008 03:04 AM |
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1) There are always better ways than war to resolve this, so here I believe America to be at fault. Consequently, I do not believe Saddam as evil as he's made out to be. And all information I'd look up on him would be biased now!
It was tried to resolve situation with Saddam without war. He repeated ignored UN resoultions, he refused to allow inspectors to go where needed. He continued support of terrorist training camps and to give money to family of suicide bombers.
http://www.husseinandterror.com/
Recall that he had previously surrendered and yet he refused to live up to termos of surrender.
As far as Saddam not being evil, I disagree. Butcher of Baghdad was greatly feared by citizens. He murdered hundreds of thousands of people so I would say that is evil. The world is better off without such a man.
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2) I am also having a hard time believing they would spend time and resources on building in Iraq.
Nontheless America has been rebuilding Iraq's infastructure. American citizens have complained because while US have been spending much money on rebuilding effort Iraq has had large surplus from oil but has not been investing in rebuilding as much as US have.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/world/middleeast/06surplus.html
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The unspent windfall, which covers surpluses from oil sales since 2005, appears likely to reinforce growing debate about the approximately $48 billion in American taxpayer money devoted to rebuilding Iraq since the American-led invasion.
In one comparison, the United States has spent $23.2 billion in the critical areas of security, oil, electricity and water since the 2003 invasion, the report said. But from 2005 through April 2008, Iraq has spent just $3.9 billion on similar services.
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3) I find it hard to believe iraqi's and americans would even cooperate on any level, at all. In fact, there's a LOT of protest going on right NOW, to plead for America to leave (Bush effigy anyone?)
The burning in effigy you speak of was by supporter of Anti-US Islamic cleric. The cleric wishes for theocracy rather than democracy. Democracy can strenthen as US remains to help secure remeing provinces where terrorits have foothold.
As far as the two complaints about my English I will try to make improvement but I think my arguments can be followed without much difficulty.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 26, 2008 01:51 PM |
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3) I find it hard to believe iraqi's and americans would even cooperate on any level, at all. In fact, there's a LOT of protest going on right NOW, to plead for America to leave (Bush effigy anyone?)
The burning in effigy you speak of was by supporter of Anti-US Islamic cleric. The cleric wishes for theocracy rather than democracy. Democracy can strenthen as US remains to help secure remeing provinces where terrorits have foothold.
Please provide proper sources to that one, and a source that comfirms its only the extremists that want the US to get the heck out of the country.
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DagothGares
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No gods or kings
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posted November 26, 2008 01:55 PM |
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I can confirm it's a cleric (it was in the times) who also had something to do with th training of a militia. I think it was because US forces will stay in Iraq for 2011 to leave slower than they arrived (would it really tae so much time to pack up and leave?)
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 26, 2008 02:04 PM |
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I can confirm it's a cleric (it was in the times) who also had something to do with th training of a militia. I think it was because US forces will stay in Iraq for 2011 to leave slower than they arrived (would it really tae so much time to pack up and leave?)
Rebuilding and stabilizing a nation takes a lot more time than bombing one to pieces.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 26, 2008 02:11 PM |
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Not to mention, doing the former after the latter.
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mvassilev
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posted November 28, 2008 02:06 AM |
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted November 28, 2008 12:35 PM |
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This thread is pages long: 
