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Heroes Community > Heroes 7+ Altar of Wishes > Thread: Shadow town (with pics)
Thread: Shadow town (with pics)
Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted June 28, 2005 03:12 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Svarog on 19 Jul 2005

Shadow town (with pics)

Here comes the last episode of the trilogy of town proposals, to complete the project of the Revolutionary town alignment I started more than a year and a half ago. The original alignment had 12 towns (9 from heroes III) and 3 whole new towns: Tomb, Atlantis and Shadow, that I presented each in a separate thread. Why would I post a rudimentary proposal in Heroes 5 Altar of Wishes when the game is just about done and ready to hit the market? Well, maybe at this point I’m not doing it for others, but for myself, to round off my contribution to these forums, and who knows, maybe in some future forum, these ideas could be recycled for Heroes 6.


Why should there be a Shadow town?

To answer this question, its necessary to grasp the idea behind the Shadow, and what Shadow in fact represents. The concept of the town may be confused with the concept behind Necro, Dungeon, or even Rampart but there are subtle but yet distinctive differences. The availability of unused creatures is not really a strong argument in favor of this idea, but its ideological alignment is. So far, some Shadow elements, including creatures, were spread out in many towns, Necro, Rampart, Dungeon, Fortress. That’s why, most of the creatures may look borrowed, but in fact they were in an inadequate town in the first place, I’d say.


The identity of the Shadow

Shadow represents the dark forces of nature. Witchcraft ideology (for those familiar with it) is what describes this town the best. Nature, if understood as a complete whole where two opposites are in dialectic struggle with each other, is in this case what Rampart and Shadow have in common. The difference is only one, but yet substantial, which confronts these two towns in direct opposition, but also places them in a strange alliance in some odd circumstances. Shadow is a town of Darkness, town of the night, the female concept,  intuition, sensuality, mysteries, cults, uncanny worshiping of various forces and spirits. The Shadow isnt a structured town with its own hierarchy and civilization features. Rather it’s a loose band of witches and social outcasts who belong to the Shadow community, but live most of the time on their own, have reserved temperament and deal with magic and dark powers. The powers witches possess are believed to be innate, and a witch can only learn to recognize and utilize them, but not study them.
The lack of hierarchy is one notable difference from the Necross and Dungeon. Also, although witches usually share a fascination with death, they don’t have it as their professional occupation, as the Necromancers do. They embrace the creative dark power of nature, as much as the destructive. They can use their powers to bewitch and control fearsome beasts. Unlike Dungeon, wealth, chaos and destruction arent by far their main goals. Protecting all nature is not really into their agenda either, but maintaining a natural balance is. In this aspect, they see the predator-pray relation and the act of killing and consuming the flesh of the pray as a holy act.
Darkness is the most important element, as the Moon is their symbol as well (the Moon representing female intuition). The town has a bit of a Gothic feel to it as well. It has to be a gloomy, dark and spooky place, but not barren and waste.
The Shadow is of evil alignment, but also the least evil from all the evil towns. On the order-chaos axis, it falls right in the middle, somewhat more chaotic.


The name of the town

Shadow is maybe more of an alignment name than a town one. But no better option came to mind. Besides, “Shadow” would give the town a more mystical aura. While the other town names clearly represent a building/castle of some sort, this one associates directly to some amorphous magical structure, if put in that context. (Imagine heroes realizing in awe: “We’re sieging a shadow. Its impossible!”) Shadow is also appropriate because it precisely alludes to darkness or the dark side of something.



Buildings and town screen

Town screen is a dark dense forest, with a castle in gothic (or high-gothic) style in the middle, serving the purpose of castle (citadel) as well. The forest’s trees would have grotesquely shaped branches reminding disfigured human bodies. High on the black dark sky, a moon would shine just enough to illuminate discretely the entire town screen and make the buildings outlines noticeable.
Possibilities of buildings include: dens, caverns, dungeons, cliffs, specific trees (serving as structures, i.e. having entrance), huts. A huge mansion in gothic style would serve as a City Hall.

Castles:




Mansions:









Magic

Shadow-related spells include curses, berserk-type of spells (unleashing the bestial nature in creatures), spells involving spying and concealment (all types of View “this” orbs, stealths, disguises), summoning spells (control of beasts summoned through magic) somewhat less direct damage spells (poison). Magic school preference centers on Earth (commune with Mother Nature), Water (Intuition and emotions) and Death spells (the Dark forces).


Heroes

The assassin seems to be the least inappropriate name for the might class heroes. As the Shadow takes on the whole of the Stealth dimension that was inadequately added to the Asylum in heroes IV, the assassin exemplifies just that. A dark, cunning, concealed, merciless hero, working not under the patronage of a king, but on his own, hired to serve and kill. We do not know to which extent stealth would be a tactical part of the game, but whatever the case is, it has to be utilized to the fullest with this class. Same goes for summoning ability (whether a special skill or only a spell) in the witch hero class, the magic Shadow hero(in)es. Witches naturally are the backbone of the Shadow. They are all female, because intuitive understanding of magic is strongest in females. They deal with studying the ways of the Dark path in nature, independently or jointly in cults. They are very independent, but do share a common feeling of communion (sort of like a guild of witches). Beside summoning and controlling beasts, using curses and charms, they are also good at flying brooms and burning at the stake .


Creatures

The creatures are loosely arranged according to the creature level, but of course it’s all a question of balance so its not that important. Also note that special abilities in many cases are adopted from previous series in the spirit of the old tradition due to sentimentality, but with most of the creatures they are not closely related, so they can be easily changed, depending as I said on the specific gameplay circumstances. Here goes:

Rogue

You know him. The concept of a stray, undisciplined, immoral, anti-social person, even criminal, wandering the wild, as the term originally means is close enough to the idea I have about the Shadow rogue. The main difference is that the Shadow rogue associates with the witch way of life to a reasonable extent, practices isolation, lives in remote forests or cottages where he secures his day-to-day survival from unsuspecting wanderers at night, looting and if necessary murdering them. A rogue is the lowest level creature of the Shadow, walking, and no special abilities

Harpy

Havent you found it odd when the flying harpies lived in narrow Dungeon tunnels in H3? There were originally three harpies in Greek mythology, with the head and breasts of women and the lower body of preying birds. They were considered to be old ugly hags. The hag model of witch suits perfectly to the harpy appearance, with a slight alteration in the hands. The Shadow harpies would correspond to the classical mythological appearance, plus human hands in order to make them more warlike (like the homm harpies, in fact). The harpies are naturally flying creatures, and I have nothing against the special ability inherited from previous homm games (fly and fly back).




Sorceress

Basically, a second name for witch, cos there is the problem with the name overlapping with the hero class of witch. What it in reality (homm reality, that is) represents is witch, not sorceress, which seems to be a broader term for all females using magic. The sorceress uses the dark powers of nature (innate to her) and has a spell or two up her sleeve (poison, curse). They wear long black gowns , and age appearance is neither too old nor too young. They hold a wooden staff, or any phallic object in one hand (excluding dildo ) which they use for spells/attacks. Sorceresses are walking creatures, very likely with a ranged attack.



Shade

Shades are incorporeal beings, dark spirits that move unnoticeably in the night. They are told to be the lost souls of people who have passed to the other side. Shades are made of a sort of dark dense steam and have little glowing eye holes. The have found a refuge within the realms of the Shadow where they swarm in the dark forests without being disturbed. A shade has the flying ability and additional protection against ranged attacks due to her incorporeal nature.


(u go find better on google)

Werewolf

In Medieval folklore werewolves were men thought to transform into wolves, under the influence of the full moon or other circumstances. Werewolves roam about at night, hunting wandering humans and at the morning turn back to normal again. The Shadow werewolf has a permanent appearance of a man-wolf, and belongs to this town because of his dark power and association with the human’s bestial nature. Werewolves are walking creatures, melee damage attackers, and their special ability could be some increase in stats (e.g. all double) on a special day of the month (full moon).



Troll

Trolls were a Norse race of creatures that were malevolent in nature, stole maidens, killed travelers or just committed general harm. They were big, clumsy, strong and with hard-skin. They didn’t tolerate sunlight though and even died if exposed. Therefore, their most likely heaven was to become the Shadow. Trolls live in caves or under bridges, protected from sunlight where they wait for unsuspecting strangers to devour. Witches offer the trolls the intellectual guidance they need in exchange for the brute strength the witches lack. Trolls are walking, sturdy tank creature, melee attackers. Their traditional special ability, regeneration, is adequate enough, since trolls are also known to possess a meager knowledge of magic.



Stoned trolls on sunlight

Argus

Argus in Greek mythology was a hundred-eyed giant that was created by Hera to guard with his life one of Zeus’ many consorts, Io, after she was turned into a cow. In order to rescue Io, Zeus ordered Hermes to slay the giant, which he did by getting him to sleep playing beautiful music. After he was slain, Hera transferred the giant’s 100 eyes on the tail of the peacock. Arguses in homm are a race of 100-eyed giants that look like regular giants with eyes all over their body. Because of their unpleasant appearance they cover themselves with cloaks. Their main preoccupation is serving in the Temple of the Moon as priests of the night, their eyes representing the night stars and Moon. They are walking ranged attackers, firing focused lightning rays on their enemies. His special ability is vigilance, revealing all concealed elements an enemy army might have (army numbers, hero stats and skills).




Wolf Riders

Wolves are creatures of the night that are trained in the command of the Shadow army using dark magic. That magic also enhances their natural killing performances, so we’re talking about super-wolves here. But being trained with the aid of magic doesn’t mean they are controlled or trapped by it. Instead, each wolf is awarded a rider and a unique bond is developed between them in time, over the course of training. Usually only witches and rogues can become wolf riders. Wolf Riders enjoy a unique status among the Shadow community and are effective and valuable almost as much as a well-trained Champion is among humans. Wolf Riders are melee attackers, walking creatures, with special ability to ferociously strike their victim twice, while taking only one retaliation strike.




Cursed Treant

Treants originally come from Tolkien mythology (Ents), where they were living trees, and were introduced in homm 3 as dendroids (because the name Ent was reserved by Tolkien). Treants use their roots as legs, branches as arms, and have fewer leaves on the top of the stem (where the “head” is). Cursed treants are the evil version of the Treants. Witches invoke the dark spirits of nature in the trees and employ them in the Shadow army. Hence, they are known as Cursed Treants. Cursed Treants have no leaves (unlike regular Treants) because the burning spirit inside them provides all the energy the tree needs. Cracks in the tree trunk represent the tree’s mouth and eyes, inside where the burning spirit can be seen. Cursed Treants are followed by a trail of smoke and dust as they move sluggishly. Cursed Treants are strong slow tank creatures, walking melee attackers. Their special ability is entangling all enemies around them, no matter whether they are attacked or not. In addition, Cursed Treants are immune to curse type of spells.



Chimera

Chimera was a mutant fire-breathing monster in Greek mythology, an unnatural mix of goat, lion and dragon (snake). Chimera was killed by the hero Belerophon after terrorizing the coast of Asia Minor for many years. The Shadow Chimera has the front heads of a lion and a goat, the body of a goat, and the tale is a fire-breathing dragon’ head. The hideous monster is taken under the protection of the Shadow, hiding in its dark forests and caves, and symbolizing the furious power of nature waiting to be unleashed. Nature’ most gruesome creation is hard to control even by witches’ natural ability to get in touch with the beasts. Chimeras have a three-field attack (lion head attacks 1, and dragon head attacks 2 fields in depth), no retaliation ability and immune to fire damaging spells.




And, in the end, a complete sketch design of all the Shadow creatures, based on homm3 artstyle.


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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted July 01, 2005 04:46 PM
Edited By: Vlaad on 2 Jul 2005

So that's what you've been doing lately...

Needless to say, I loved it. However, I felt some creatures didn't actually fit in:

Forget the Trolls, I cannot imagine them dwelling in gothic mansions; they belong with other greenskins, in caves or hills. So do Wolf Riders.

I didn't care for Argus either. It sounds too big, too brutal, too stupid. Your proposal is different, though, so why the name? Anyway, I'd like to see a different big gun.

Chimera looks funny, too. Perhaps because Aculias has (ab)used that picture.

Speaking of illustrations, if you played WoG you would know there is a new sorceress creature, more beautiful than your wraith with a pitchfork. Werewolf, too...



What about the banshee? Or does she belong with the undead instead? Those buildings you posted sure look haunted... (Obviously, I prefer the gothic elements in your proposal).

I loved the shade (the idea, not the pic ). I always recruit one when playing Age of Wonders, although there are better units.

A cursed treant...? Cool.

What about spiders? Summoning units, maybe?

(OK, I won't mention Dark Elves again! )
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Djive
Djive


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
posted July 02, 2005 12:52 PM

I think you made a very good desscription of the female magic part of this town. Historically on earth most lands had an overwhelming part of female witches the main exception being iceland where almost excluseively men were wictches (or warlocks which I think is the corresponding term for male.)

For the might hero I think you'd be best of not using "assassin" since stealth is the main focus and not the killing part. I'd suggest "Stalker" instead.

Also this is a natural town far away from all common civilization. Rogue is something I associate to civilization and towns and little else, rogues are home at inns and taverns which simply are not common in conjunction with shadows and wicthes. You need something nature/shadow inspired here for the name. Something like scout, tracker, or even hunter.

I'm also missing a primarily shape changing type of creature here which probably should a) have a very strong physical shape and b) be able to charm enemies. This creature should take the place of the werewolf I think, since it's the shape changer right now.

The troll. Where did you find that image? It looks almost like the old Talisman game which simply put is one of the best borad games around (even though it is quite old and I like the original versions more).

I do agree that both wolf (or at least something wolf-related) and the troll does fit into this town quite nicely, because of the night/moon/shadow motive of the town.

Perhaps, however, it might be better to have the wolf as a separate lower level creature (as it was in heroes 2), and the more powerful version be a shapechanger of higher level. I'm not too keen on witches mounting something unless that something is a broom or similar. The wolf by itself lends itself very well to this town so why not have it as a normal creature? (It has been a normal creature in both H2 and H4 at least.)

The argus I dunno. It neither feels right or wrong for this town. My inclination is that something more powerful and shadow related can be found here. Like perhaps a monster feeding on your fear or emotions. Something related to nightmares or shadows, mayhaps? (A mind reaper, or a shadow reaver...)

On the treant/dendriod I think there should be a big dark tree in the line up. I'm a bit undecided by what to call it though. Perhaps we should have a tree which is carnivorous in this slot? (Like the carnivourous plant which was the grail monster for fortress in H3)

I'm also missing somewhat monsters that are poisonous and deadly. Poison as the wyvern in H3 (but it doesn't have to be a wyvern), or even something like the basilisk.

Perhaps the big tree should have a poison/weakening effect apart from just binding creatures they strike.

Anyway, I'd suggest something like:

Hunter, Harpy, Wolf, Shade
Shapechanger, Troll, Basilisk
Mindreaper/Shadowreaver, Treant of some sort
Chimera.
____________
"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"

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gerdash
gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted July 03, 2005 02:50 PM

maybe witch on a broom wouldn't suit this town very well, because the origin was from fertility rituals. but maybe the origin doesn't really matter.

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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted July 17, 2005 04:52 AM
Edited By: Svarog on 16 Jul 2005

Hi guys. Have to say I'm real sorry for neglecting this thread. I wasnt around, but here i am to reply to your inspiring remarks.

Quote:
Forget the Trolls, I cannot imagine them dwelling in gothic mansions; they belong with other greenskins, in caves or hills. So do Wolf Riders.

Who says they are greenskins?!
Both are not. See the forest trolls on the pics up there. Thats the kind of troll i'd like to see. I find it quite in the theme, especially as a tank unit of some sort, beside the Cursed Treant.
Quote:
I didn't care for Argus either. It sounds too big, too brutal, too stupid. Your proposal is different, though, so why the name? Anyway, I'd like to see a different big gun.

I dont think Argus is the sloppy bully in the town. He's more like the mysterious priest type. The name's there because its originally mythological and with a unique appearance.
Quote:
Speaking of illustrations, if you played WoG you would know there is a new sorceress creature, more beautiful than your wraith with a pitchfork.  Werewolf, too...

No, i havent played WOG. And yes, they are indeed much nicer illustrations. Can you send me those on a blank background, so i can make an alternative creature summary.
Quote:
What about the banshee? Or does she belong with the undead instead?

No, banshees would be fine here, but to me they are too similar to the wraiths in the Necross, or even the shade here if you like.
Quote:
What about spiders? Summoning units, maybe?

Spiders are no-no, because they live underground (meaning go with the Dungeon). Summoning skill - thank for reminding me, see below.

Quote:
For the might hero I think you'd be best of not using "assassin" since stealth is the main focus and not the killing part. I'd suggest "Stalker" instead.

Agreed. Stalker is the might hero name.
Quote:
Also this is a natural town far away from all common civilization. Rogue is something I associate to civilization and towns and little else, rogues are home at inns and taverns which simply are not common in conjunction with shadows and wicthes. You need something nature/shadow inspired here for the name. Something like scout, tracker, or even hunter.

Yes, you're right again. But I definately wouldnt change the appearance of the creature. Only the name, so either Night tracker or Night hunter.
Quote:
I'm also missing a primarily shape changing type of creature here which probably should a) have a very strong physical shape and b) be able to charm enemies. This creature should take the place of the werewolf I think, since it's the shape changer right now.

I dont think the warewolf should go, because it has a paramount importance in mythology and folklore. Dunno why strong physical shape (troll, Cursed Treant) and charming enemies are necessary.
Quote:
I'm not too keen on witches mounting something unless that something is a broom or similar. The wolf by itself lends itself very well to this town so why not have it as a normal creature?

Yes, maybe it could be better to be by itself, but in that case  the warewolf is kind of too similar. Maybe if not witches, then specialized trackers could do the riding bit.
Quote:
Like perhaps a monster feeding on your fear or emotions. Something related to nightmares or shadows, mayhaps? (A mind reaper, or a shadow reaver...)

Absolutely, a nightmare, why not. Its not generic, and its quite common in fantasy. Originally (back year and a half ago) i didnt put the nightmare because it was too similar to a horse, but after i encountered it in more games than just H4 (where i saw it the first time) i began trustng him more to be a unique creature.
Quote:
Perhaps we should have a tree which is carnivorous in this slot? (Like the carnivourous plant which was the grail monster for fortress in H3)

Allow me to say that i dont like the idea to have actual plants as creatures. Treants stay as they are. With the poison bit added, thats a nice addition. thanx
Quote:
maybe witch on a broom wouldn't suit this town very well, because the origin was from fertility rituals. but maybe the origin doesn't really matter.

Well, it was just the hag witch type. The Sorceress from WOG could be a better version, without broom, that is.




Nightmare

(Night)mares in Anglo-Saxon and Norse mythology were spirits-demons that come secretly in the night, through small keyholes, cracks or anything, and attack their victims causing them to have bad dreams. They were pictured often in the form of a black horse. In fact that is where the word for a nightmare, bad dream, comes from, not vice versa.
Black horses with fiery mane and a slightly hazy appearance and movement are creatures of the Shadow, that haunt the sorroundings of the Mansion. They are walking creatures, melee attackers. They may cause fear in enemies, making the victim who sees a Nightmare to lose its turn. Also, retaliation against them is no option.






Summoning

The summoning secondary skill could include a pack of set number of wolves that could always fight as an additional eighth unit in the army, depending on the level of the skill (and the spell power) naturally. This pack isnt shown on the adventure map, it only automatically shows up when a witch enters a battle, unless the witch chooses to fight without them, that is.
Another option could be to adopt the Heroes 4 model, which I liked. It means your hero, garrisoned or not, to get a given number of Wolves each week and stack them in the hero army. In that case the Wolf would have to replace the Wolf Rider as a creature, so as to have a complete array of Shadow creatures filling up all the slots in the hero army, without one creature being extra.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Unded_Champion
Unded_Champion

Tavern Dweller
posted July 17, 2005 08:48 AM

wow u cant have a "Shadow" town without more UD in it .. Vamp's for one cuz of tha life return .. they turned many battles for me .. liches for long range ownage .. multiple troops .. dread knights for massive damage wid tha dread attack and ghost dragons wid age attack

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted July 17, 2005 11:02 PM

Quote:
No, i havent played WOG. And yes, they are indeed much nicer illustrations. Can you send me those on a blank background, so i can make an alternative creature summary?



Sadly, no - I have unistalled Heroes 3. (The next WoG patch is coming out in 2006, so there is nothing interesting going on except Polish "Forge" project.)

I can send you a zip file with small pics of all WoG creatures and objects, though, so you can have fun with Paint or Photoshop yourself.

On topic, it's a pity Ubi & Nival haven't listened to the fans like you more and decided to develop H3 in 3D instead.



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Svarog
Svarog


Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
posted July 20, 2005 02:57 AM

Quote:
I can send you a zip file with small pics of all WoG creatures and objects, though, so you can have fun with Paint or Photoshop yourself.

If they are the size of the crits you posted up there, please do.

Undead_Champion, this is not an undead Necro town, but a unique Shadow town. Read more under "The Identity of the Shadow".
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.

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Malekith
Malekith


Adventuring Hero
pRr..
posted July 29, 2005 12:47 AM

Svarog: I must say you have always great ideas. I have problem. I want see Shadow town but also Tomb town. :/

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Daystar
Daystar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
posted August 01, 2005 12:53 AM

i don't know about the werewolf for this town.  the rhyme goes:

even a man who is pure of heart, and says his prayers by night,
may become a wolf when the wolfsbane blooms, and the autum moon is bright.

i always thought werewolves were creatures of chaos, or even of the rampart, but not of shadow.  they are no more evil than you or I, just prosecuted because of the shapeshifting.  sorry if that sounded preechy, but i am a bit of a werewolf fanatic.

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DragonLord3000
DragonLord3000


Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
posted September 06, 2006 04:40 PM

I think it is really impressive.New town is really needed and shadow might be very welcomed.

Opinnions:
-Replace the trolls with the nightmares!!!
-instead of those Argus creatures let's put some sort of wyrm like the venom spawn in heroes4,kind of Jabba the Hutt look-a-like,only black with red eyes!!!
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.

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Sindbad
Sindbad


Famous Hero
The lost soul
posted September 09, 2006 10:30 AM

Looks interesting... Those images are really good, but those creatures sound not very original. And why are they 10? Have you included some alternative production system? Some of them dont fit together when I look at the last image of the first post. And one more: I dontt like the look of that chimera - Id like to see dragon chimeras or gargoyle chimeras, and so...
But quite good job
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Already gone...

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DragonLord3000
DragonLord3000


Known Hero
Romanian flamethrower
posted September 13, 2006 11:36 PM
Edited by DragonLord3000 at 23:37, 13 Sep 2006.

New creature for troll replacement

Fester\Damned fester

Attack and Defense:16
Damage:8-12\10-14
Hit points:50\60
Speed 5\6
Initiative:7\9
Ability:Large.Undead.\Large.Undead.Cursed

-Festers are unimaginabely horrifying looking beings spawned from shipwreckes.They seem to be cursed by some ancient voodo rituals.Any creature coming in close contact with one of these abominations is sure to suffer the same fate as them,therefore inflicting lesser damage in combat.
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hot peppers are an ilusion.they do not exist.

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