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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Are the Religions guilty?
Thread: Are the Religions guilty? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV
TheAsgard
TheAsgard


Adventuring Hero
Wise and helpful being
posted May 18, 2006 12:41 PM

I do still think the religon are guilty and in this thread i am going to focus on christianity as a pull away from any other current world relogious issues. I will be starting from "a la Medieval Europe."

The church state was male dominated, but it was not functioning in the best interest of either men or women. The church state functioned in the best interest of the church state. The Christian religion is mostly based on pre-Christian customs and practices. This can be seen in the correspondences between the holy days as well as the Cathoilc saints and pagan deities. Take out everything that is pagan from Chritianity and you are left with virtually nothing. Why then was the church created? To do exactly what it almost achieved, to rule the face of the earth. As a result, the incorporation of pagan teachings was twisted for that purpose.

It would be irresponsible if I did not point out that the power structure that I am reffering to no longer exists. It is just as ridiculous to blame today's Christians for the actions of the Church state of the Middle Ages as it is to blame today's peoples for the actions of the same time period. As most of us live in the aftermath of the Church state, it is necessary to understand what it did in order to overcome its current influence.

Before the Church state, magick and religion were not the separate things that the Church would later insist they were. In the transition of what was magick into what would become Christian doctrine, a great deal was changed. Guidelines became laws and distraction became sin. Where magickal guidelines said women were a tremendous source of potential distraction, Christianity taught the law that women were the source of the greatest sin. The ultimate manifestation of this trend can be seen in the belief that women were responsible for original sin. Eve reportedly earned women that title by distracting Adam from his intent to obey his god.

Abstinence:
To avoid distraction (sin), the Church insisted men should abstain from sexual intercourse. Most often, this instruction even included thier wives. There should be no joy in sex; after all, that might be distracting. Sex was for procreation. Yes, it flew in the face of the whole 'be fruitful and multiply' instruction from their god, but the Church couldn't let women have an influence on their male leaders. They had to stay the course and win that big game.

Castration:
As an extreme measure of devotion, members of some sects have even used castration as a mode of enlightenment. I am thinking a little foreskin might be an accetable thing to give up for one's religion. These sects are not generally heard of because, as you can imagine, there were not a lot of members.

Indulgence:
Then there is the third option, but the Church ignored this one. If your horny, have sex. Doesn't it seem like a rather simple equation? Before you know it, you find yourself in a committed relationship and you become all but useless to the Church state. How could they take over the world if their preists had to pick up their kids for football practice? What they were really saying was that you shouldn't enjoy sex because your brain might kick in and tell you that your potential wife and family is important. It is much easier to rule when your subjects do not use thier minds.

If they were going to rule the world they had to raise an army. The mating instinct would drive men to protect their own, but the Church had something entirely different in mind. Without the intervention of a third party, women tend to become the centre of men's lives. If the Church could secure that position for their god, it could solicit men to protect their god. As the church was the earthly representative of god, it would be what men would die and kill for. Instead of  thenatural relationship of give and take that once developed between men and women, we were set on a path of owner and slave. What thay failed to mention was that the church would own every master.

During the burning times, women were easy prey because they were no longer sacred to their men. The protector and provider was no longer a role that men played for thie family. Before Christianity, women were an equal part of creation. After Christianity, they were the source of original sin.

I conclude in saying that yes I do still believe that the religions are to blame for many of the things that have happened and are currently happening in the world.

(I would also like to let people who read this know that I am mot trying to offend anyone this is just an opinion, as the saying goes "opinions are like armpits, everyone has them. Sorry if anyone is offended by the word 'sex' it is only used in context.).

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 18, 2006 03:46 PM

Perhaps you should make a distinction between personal religion and organized religion.  

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sick_46_boy
sick_46_boy


Known Hero
*Lord of the bones*
posted May 18, 2006 03:52 PM

Quote:
I do believe that fighting over religon is a very stupid reason to fight, period.

Allow me to put this in a comical term


Kid1: Hey, Santa sucks!
Kid2: OmfG NO HE DONT!!!
Kid1: Yea he does, the easter bunny is better!
Kid2: No he isnt! The Easter bunny sux! Santa Rulez!
Kid1: NO!
Kid2: YES!
Kid1: NO!!!!
Kid2: Yess!!!!!

Anyone get the point here? There is no sense in fighting over something that may or may not exist. And yes, alot of the worlds problems are caused by religon.

The Holocaust was a massacre of Jews

9/11 was commited by terrorists, who believe that Allah sent them, which in turn spawned this entire War on Terror

The inquisition was a massacre of Muslims by Christians in spain.


This is the rigiht thing,this is the god voice,lisent this man carfuly he know somethings about life

I am 100% agree with u "2x"
____________
Once I used to be what you are now! And you will become what I am!"

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted May 18, 2006 03:56 PM

I think you'll find that many atrocities committed ostensibly in the name of religion actually have very little to do with religion at all.

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Lady_Milena
Lady_Milena


Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
posted May 19, 2006 02:57 PM
Edited by Lady_Milena at 15:05, 19 May 2006.

Quote:
Abstinence:
To avoid distraction (sin), the Church insisted men should abstain from sexual intercourse. Most often, this instruction even included thier wives. There should be no joy in sex; after all, that might be distracting. Sex was for procreation. Yes, it flew in the face of the whole 'be fruitful and multiply' instruction from their god, but the Church couldn't let women have an influence on their male leaders. They had to stay the course and win that big game.


Well, where is your proof? I can't think of a place in the canons where it says that sex must not be fun. On the contrary, if you see the little scene with Sarah and Abraham in the Old Testament, you'd get a totally different idea. Celibacy WAS encouraged by Christianity but never ever have I encountered a written text that discourages sexual pleasure when it gets to *lawfully married* couples.

Quote:
Castration:
As an extreme measure of devotion, members of some sects have even used castration as a mode of enlightenment. I am thinking a little foreskin might be an accetable thing to give up for one's religion. These sects are not generally heard of because, as you can imagine, there were not a lot of members.


These are called the skopci and they are a minor cult that existed 2 or 3 centuries ago. They were never more than a hundren in number to my knowledge and their ideas have never received warm reception by the rest of the of the Christian world.

What you could have mentioned were the castrati. These were young boys castrated to keep their gentle womanly voices. In the bottom of this is what women had to keep silent in churches and castrated boys were an alternative. They were several thousand in number ....

However.

I would like to point out a few things to you. Castration is a practice that Christianity copied from other places. In China, Egypt and Persia eunuchs served in royal palaces long before Christ was born. Data goes back to 5 or 6 centuries BC. The eunuchs - because they are deprived of their ability to procreate children and some to have sex, were invaluable assets in harems because they were neither male, not female. If you've read 1001 nights, you'll see the tales are all full of "beautiful white slaves" and "black eunuchs". If we have to compare how spread was castration in Europe (the major continent of Christianity then) and in Muslim counties, you'll see the ratio of Christian vs Muslim eunuchs was much higher (Muslim relatively said because no Moslem man could be castrated, only infidel captives). Add the number of castrated men in India and China and you're going to see that castration in Christianity is really not such a big deal.


Quote:
Indulgence:
Then there is the third option, but the Church ignored this one. If your horny, have sex. Doesn't it seem like a rather simple equation? Before you know it, you find yourself in a committed relationship and you become all but useless to the Church state. How could they take over the world if their preists had to pick up their kids for football practice? What they were really saying was that you shouldn't enjoy sex because your brain might kick in and tell you that your potential wife and family is important.


That's very naive to say. There is a wild misconception of modern people that Christians in Medieval Europe were all saints. They were hypocrites. Actually monasteries and convents in most cases were dens of debauchery itself. It was taboo to talk about it but that's #2 reason why there were so many rebellions against the cloistered clergy. To be more precise, because instead of remaining celibate and abstain moral temptations such as food and alcohol, priests were fat, often drunk and lewd. In fact many would take the vows especially for this very reason. It also was no surprise to see in public a very high-ranking church official with his mistress - and we're talking bishops and higher here.

Quote:
Without the intervention of a third party, women tend to become the centre of men's lives.


No novelty here. We've discussed homosexualism in ancient Greece before. I think Khaelo gave a very nice description of that. Especially in Sparta, the mini-country known for the best warriors in ancient times, gay practices were openly encouraged as a way to unite the soldiers.

Quote:
During the burning times, women were easy prey because they were no longer sacred to their men. The protector and provider was no longer a role that men played for thie family. Before Christianity, women were an equal part of creation. After Christianity, they were the source of original sin.


Excuse me but I think you didn't quite do your homework. The position of women was unenviable ever since men discovered they had a major part of procreation. That was in prehistoric times! Geez, once again, see China, see ancient Rome, ancient Greece! Women were not supposed to be educated, own land in a lot of countries, do anything else but give birth to children and belong to their fathers and husbands. It was this very way all over the world. Perhaps the only exception were the Zoroastrianists, who believe(d) in gender equity. If you read the old Testament again, you'll see women were traded like cattle on a few occasions and also make sure to pay attention to their status in Egypt. You may be up to a few surprises. Undoubtedly Christianity as a whole did not improve the status of women which was already too degrading for modern standarts.

Quote:
I conclude in saying that yes I do still believe that the religions are to blame for many of the things that have happened and are currently happening in the world.


From your whole post I agree with you on one point: so many things were done in the name of religion which had *nothing* to do with said religion, as Corribus stated.


____________
God does not need exist to save us...

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Yanzhangcan
Yanzhangcan


Known Hero
*Dance*
posted January 28, 2007 09:31 PM

Well, religion can be seen as a glue. It keeps society together. Without hell, there is no wrong. Without heaven, there is no future. Eternal damnation seems a rather harsh price for not believing in something you can't see. I don't want to spend all of my time praying to a god that noone has proof exists. Do you believe in santa now that you realise the idea of santa is fantastic? (Impossible)

You probably think that life could be ok if there is no afterlife. Sadly, my views are shunned as heresy and the such, whereas it is cold, hard truth. I prayed when I was 7 for about an hour that my grandfather would survive his illness, he died that night.

Being a goth is stressful, but it remains a price I am willing to pay everyday with people throwing insults because they have a lower intellect and prefer to sit there in church praying to the sky. I remain a benchmark on society, a lone soldier against an entire army.
I try and teach by example, but most say "God is mysterious" or "He moves in mysterious ways". This is no excuse for the bloodshed, worldwide disaster and pain which people deal with on a regular basis.

If god loves us so much, why do we have to go through so much pain?

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Yanzhangcan
Yanzhangcan


Known Hero
*Dance*
posted January 28, 2007 11:21 PM

I know, God seems so unrealistic with all the truth we have uncovered.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 28, 2007 11:51 PM

But the question about God is not one of existence contra non-existence. It is a matter of faith.
____________

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Yanzhangcan
Yanzhangcan


Known Hero
*Dance*
posted January 29, 2007 02:42 AM

"Answer a question with a question" Lmao, I find that all christians do this.

No offense meant to anyone, of course.

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Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted January 29, 2007 10:23 AM

silenced?

hardly... but the answers range from the outrageous to the unbelievable
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.

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Yanzhangcan
Yanzhangcan


Known Hero
*Dance*
posted January 29, 2007 12:17 PM

Yes, I can see that. I have asked  many diferent priests these questions, I ask them why they believe, they say they know he is there. The answers differ from priest to priest. Now, trust. We think we know all there is to know about god; He is everywhere, he is loving, he looks after those who praise him.

What if there is a god, except we are wrong about him? What if he is sitting there, drinking a beer and laughung at our petty wars and pain and suffering. What then?

By the way, that's a metaphor. I doubt 'god' would drink beer, lol.

'God' made it easy for people to believe in him, 2000 years ago.

He sent his son, Jesus.

If he wants to counter truth, he should send him again, where we will have proper proof (Photos etc) that he was here. A 2000 year old book may be the writings of a madman! Would you trust your grandmother with 100 dollars, or your grandmother?

That's how I interpret belief in god.

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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted January 29, 2007 12:32 PM

The answer to the seven day question:


The bible tells the story of the creation of the world correctly, just the time frame is wrong.

Instead of days it is millions of years, but the events, according to chemists, is largely accurate... I can't tell you the specifics because I can't remember them
____________
John says to live above hell.

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Lith-Maethor
Lith-Maethor


Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
posted January 29, 2007 12:42 PM

you mean...

like the earth being created/shaped before the stars?
____________
You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.

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