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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Oil- the most valuable commodity?
Thread: Oil- the most valuable commodity?
TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
posted September 06, 2005 08:12 AM

Oil- the most valuable commodity?

Within most of the people on this board's lifetimes, if something big is not done fast, the world's oil supply will run completely out.

That means, due to supply and demand, anyone in possession of oil in the next few years will be incredibly rich, as it is the most traded resource. Everyone knows that petrol prices are through the roof.

I don't know about you, but this is a serious issue but it seems no ones doing anything about it.
Without oil, we can't power our cars or alot of other things we take for granted.

We need to solve this fast, we need a new power source for our cars. Electricity is in it's baby stages, nuclear is probably out of the question with manual labour, what about solar? We need extreme conservation tactics too of course.

What do you think?
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Wolfman
Wolfman


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
posted September 06, 2005 09:12 AM

An energy bill was just passed in Congress, part of it had to do with hydrogen powered cars.  There is a funding for that very thing now.  It may seem to you no one is doing anything, but it's not the case.

Off to class, back later.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted September 06, 2005 09:20 AM

Already Posted About This

I've posted a fair bit on this subject in a different thread entitled "Is the American Dream Over?" Here is the link:

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=10&TID=14197&pagenumber=3

There are lots of alternative methods to using oil. And these alternatives are equally efficient and reasonable. In some cases the non-petroleum product and method of utilization is actually more efficient. But hey...the world is too comfortable with petroleum status-quo.
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted September 06, 2005 10:51 AM

well here in Ottawa some city councellor's are pushing to have our diesel fulled vehicles (buses, garbage trucks,etc) change fuels...  

recently they've been discussing a new (maybe not new to everyone but here) gas that is created of recycled vegetable oil... this "gas" can be used in ANY vehicle that is diesel fulled...  (there is actually a gas station that sells it presently)

the fuel is about 0.5 cents/L more exp than diesel but reduces emmissions(?) by 70 percent. 70%!!

the simple fact remains, there are plenty of ways to reduce the need for gas...  and personnaly I'd like to start exploring them!

(hell in canada they just found out that we have the largest reserve or petrole!  so why am I still paying
1.26/L??)
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doomfreak
doomfreak


Famous Hero
The Crispinator
posted September 07, 2005 12:03 AM

We are paying the same price for petrol here. We are paying A$1.39/L, which is equivalent to $1.27/L in Canadian Dollars. Oil is precious and costly. Five years ago, petrol was being sold for about 70 cents/L, which is half the current price. There is also biodiesel sold here in a couple of places, which is made from vegetable oil.

I think more people should ride a bicycle to work or wherever they are going or catch public transport if it is convenient. It is more energy efficient, but also cheaper. Also, here in Adelaide, they are starting to use biodiesel on buses, it has a pleasant popcorn smell....
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Consis
Consis


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Of Ruby
posted September 07, 2005 12:21 AM

A Thought

What about trains? They seem so archaic yet still offer a reliable, safe, and cost effective means of travel. Public transport trains might be a helpful addition to solving the world's depleted petroleum crisis.
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted September 07, 2005 03:44 AM

thoughts on trains

The Twin Cities (Saint Paul/Minneapolis) are in the process of building a public transport train system called LightRail.  The first section is already in operation, and more are under construction and in planning.  My mom, a true New Yorker , thinks that no city can become a metropolis without an efficient public transport system like the New York subway or the Chicago L.  While I think she's adjusted her definition of "metropolis" to mean "city with trains," trains are definately great.  Aside from their benefits to conserving oil (given the right power scheme), they can also relieve traffic jams.  And they're an affordable method of transportation for those who can't afford cars.

However...Trains represent a large initial investment of resources.  That means politics.  The LightRail has been a center of controversy here for quite some time.  Once the legislators were convinced that the investment was worth it, they fought over where to put the lines.  The strip of I-94 between downtown Minneapolis and downtown Saint Paul is the most heavily-travelled section of interstate highway in the nation.  So, why does the first section of LightRail go between Minneapolis and Bloomington (city of Mall of America) rather than Saint Paul?  Politics.  Every new strip faces a new battle -- should the next rail connect downtown Saint Paul, or should they try to relieve the notorious commuter congestion to and from Minneapolis suburbs?  And so on.

Another problem with trains, insofar as the oil crisis goes, is that the things take forever to build.  Part of this is due to the aforementioned politics.  Part of it is on-the-ground construction.  It took a couple of years to build the one line we've got, judging by how long orange barrels tied up traffic in downtown Minneapolis (along with "LightRail" signs to distinguish the special orange barrels from the normal summer crop of orange barrels).    How much longer to build the rest of our lines?  Most cities aren't even as far along as we are in the consideration/planning of train systems.  Trains are projects that take a long time to get off the ground, and the oil reserves many not last that long.

So, those are my thoughts on trains.  They're wonderful once you have them.  It's obtaining them in time (and where they're really needed) that could be a problem.

~~~
And on a completely different note, gas prices here spiked up to $2.99/gallon right after Katrina.  Then we found out that most of our oil comes from Canada, not the Gulf.  The gas shortages which the media predicted for the entire Midwest and which occurred in Chicago would not be hitting us.  Accordingly, the gas dropped back down to $2.79/gallon.  Prior to Katrina, it was hovering around $2.69/gallon, depending on the station.  Did anyone else have the bizarre situation of different stations posting different prices?  Around here, stations less than half a mile apart would have gas prices which differed by as much as fifteen cents a gallon.  Go figure?
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TitaniumAlloy
TitaniumAlloy


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posted September 07, 2005 04:01 AM

But I think that if this is going to be solved, like Consis said, it will need to be done not just by the car companys, and politics won't have much to do with it, but by the people. The consumers.

I think trains are a good way to avoid petrol use. Especially those new magnetic train lines in Shanghai.

Although a shinkansen train in Japan crashed recently too, which can't be good for business.
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted September 07, 2005 09:42 AM

Quote:
There is also biodiesel sold here in a couple of places, which is made from vegetable oil.

I think more people should ride a bicycle to work or wherever they are going or catch public transport if it is convenient. It is more energy efficient, but also cheaper. Also, here in Adelaide, they are starting to use biodiesel on buses, it has a pleasant popcorn smell....


a few things (no time really to get intot detail)

I'd take my bike to work but im looking at about an hour and a half and it would only serve for the summer (spring and automn) months... unfortunetely our winter lasts like 8 months of the year...(I should skate or dog sleigh it!)

.. so I take public transit..problem there is we have the technologie to use the biodiesel but there's not enough political pressure to replace the present diesel...  but that's not enough anyhow.. why arent' all the city's vehicles (garbage trucks, bylaw vehicles whicha all run on diesel) beeing transferred to bio??
IT KNOCKS DOWN EMMISSIONS BY 70% PEOPLE!!!  70!!!

... but they would need to implement harsher car pooling laws here.. traffic is backed up because 80% of the cars going into the downtown are single drivers (no passengers at all!!)...  sure they have car pool lanes but no reprisal for driving in alone.  

Ottawa is looking at light rail... well that's great considering they're looking at 2011 or something..

And I doubt really that we'll be able to get through to the car companies without any government support.  
but there's a catch 22 since I've no doubt that the oil companies, the car manifacturers and the government are all signing each other's checks!

(more later)

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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted September 07, 2005 10:13 AM

whiners. I have to pay 2 US dollars for 1 litre gas

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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted September 07, 2005 11:02 AM

Quote:
whiners. I have to pay 2 US dollars for 1 litre gas


why is that?
(and if we just sit back and let it happen,
it'll only get worse)
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Draco
Draco


Promising
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posted September 07, 2005 11:19 AM
Edited By: draco on 7 Sep 2005

What I dont understand is, where is the the price increase going?

I don't think the alberta refiners are sending money to the gulf refiners. and the Hurricane, surely didn't affect their production cost. so why are they charging more? I was under the impression that fuel was regulated and cannot be raised for the the sole benefit of refiners/retailers.

It costs Alberta the same amount (probably less due to technology) to unearth 1 barrel today as it did 2 years ago, when gas was less then half the cost it is now.

This makes no sense.

the only fuel prices that should rise, are the gulf region. and whoever they supply.

for the rest of the world if their supply wasnt affected their prices shouldn't be.

Why is it that in the twin cities where Kaelo is, prices went up 4% but here in Winnipeg, they rose more then 20% when 0% of our fuel comes from the gulf?

P.S. my last tank was at 119.0 cents canadian / litre which translates to 3.66 US dollars per (US) gallon

does that seem right? 119.0*3.75(3.75 litres per US gallon)*0.82 (exchange rate)

*Worst part is during the last big gas war (4 years ago or so), I filled up at 16.9 cents per litre, my car took 7.50$ from E to F in US price it was (with the 60cad/us exchange at the time) 39 cents per gallon.

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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted September 07, 2005 12:17 PM

... that, is the right question...

(im not sure if this is true or not but I heard that the oil from alberta is not even beeing used to supply Canadians!!  Does THAT make sense??)

if the technology is what cost so much.. go back to the old way... probably create jobs and cost less for the rest of us!!

(sigh!.. i remember tanking at 54cents a L and finding that expensive!!)
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terje_the_ma...
terje_the_mad_wizard


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Disciple of Herodotus
posted September 08, 2005 07:51 AM
Edited By: terje_the_mad_wizard on 8 Sep 2005

Quote:
Quote:
whiners. I have to pay 2 US dollars for 1 litre gas


why is that?
(and if we just sit back and let it happen,
it'll only get worse)

80% of what we pay for our petrol are taxes, since the government wants to decrease the use of petrol. The taxes are supposed to be channeled into environmental projects, but I don't think they are.

I don't mind, though. This is one of our most valuable commodities, so the reserves we have need to be stretched thin for them to last long, and it's a polluting commodity, so we need to limit its use.
Quote:
What I dont understand is, where is the the price increase going?

I don't think the alberta refiners are sending money to the gulf refiners. and the Hurricane, surely didn't affect their production cost. so why are they charging more? I was under the impression that fuel was regulated and cannot be raised for the the sole benefit of refiners/retailers.

It costs Alberta the same amount (probably less due to technology) to unearth 1 barrel today as it did 2 years ago, when gas was less then half the cost it is now.

This makes no sense.

the only fuel prices that should rise, are the gulf region. and whoever they supply.

for the rest of the world if their supply wasnt affected their prices shouldn't be.

Why is it that in the twin cities where Kaelo is, prices went up 4% but here in Winnipeg, they rose more then 20% when 0% of our fuel comes from the gulf?

Ever heard of a thing called global markets?

When the supply of oil sinks, it affects the prices in the entire world, because oil is one of the most globalized commodities in the world. So, when total global production sinks, the world prices rise, because the other oil manufacturers now have to supply all the customers of the refineries that were, in this current time, knocked out by the hurricane.

And as we all know from basic economy:

High demand + low supply = sellers' market ---> high prices.
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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted September 08, 2005 11:27 AM
Edited By: Jebus on 8 Sep 2005

Quote:
80% of what we pay for our petrol are taxes, since the government wants to decrease the use of petrol. The taxes are supposed to be channeled into environmental projects, but I don't think they are.



if you believe any of this, that means "they"'ve gotten to you too!!  I highly doubt present rising costs are to deter people from using petrol.  If anything they see excuses to hike the cost leading to a higher revenue from the percentage of taxes.

Quote:

I don't mind, though. This is one of our most valuable commodities, so the reserves we have need to be stretched thin for them to last long, and it's a polluting commodity, so we need to limit its use.


don't agree here either...  we've been led to believe this but our most valuable commodidty , as far as im concerned, are our natural renewable ressources (sun, wind , water) ...  

.. in my humble opinion, once we run out or oil (or at least get rid of our dependance of petrol, the world will be in a much better place.  
(who cares if my car can't run without gas when I won't be able to step outside due to horible air quality and disastrous environmental conditions!! )

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Draco
Draco


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 08, 2005 12:25 PM

Quote:
Ever heard of a thing called global markets?

When the supply of oil sinks, it affects the prices in the entire world, because oil is one of the most globalized commodities in the world. So, when total global production sinks, the world prices rise, because the other oil manufacturers now have to supply all the customers of the refineries that were, in this current time, knocked out by the hurricane.

And as we all know from basic economy:

High demand + low supply = sellers' market ---> high prices.


I've taken university courses in economics, I know about supply and demand, however, oil and therefor gasoline/diesel are supposedly highly regulated by the government, they should not increase.

supply has no affect on the cost of production, therefor it should have no affect on the sale price. (in this specific example) due to regulations.

also why is it an american city only 700km away from me, had its prices increase by 5% or so, whereas mine increased by 20%? there is no logic behind that.

were getting screwed by the refiners is what it comes down to, they know were stuck between a rock and a hard place and can charge whatever they damn well feel like.

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Jebus
Jebus


Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
posted September 08, 2005 12:39 PM
Edited By: Jebus on 8 Sep 2005

check it out...  
a protest turned into a blockade on the east coast of Canada!  the truckers we're fed up and said they were working only to pay for their gas!!

http://www.canada.com/maritimes/news/story.html?id=9735c77e-5de8-4855-9c6d-9a1123bec8bf

they're basically not letting any commercial traffic through...  my gf's dad said that their stores are running low on stock! but more importantly, you can't buy gas because THEY ARE OUT!!


EDIT:

the lighter side of this BS...

http://toccionline.kizash.com/films/1001/178/index.php
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