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| Thread: Unemployment and the Future |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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bjorn190
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posted September 20, 2005 12:50 AM |
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Unemployment and the Future
It seems like there is increasing unemployment in the civilized world.. Any ideas how to solve it?
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Wolfman
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Insomniac
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posted September 20, 2005 12:58 AM |
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Massive world-wide war. Creates lots and lots of jobs everywhere, also it eliminates a massive portion of the world's population which should cut down on all the power problems and food shortages and such.
Wow, that's a great plan.
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted September 20, 2005 01:18 AM |
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"Other Canon Economics", with a focus on production as the basis for wealth, rather than the neo classic focus on trade. (Check this out for more info. Just follow the links around, and have a look.)
That, and of course the transformation of the world into a pure Communist society - where people give according to their abilities, and recieve according to their needs. 
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted September 20, 2005 03:20 AM |
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Wolfman,
Why did you say that?
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Korejora
Promising
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posted September 20, 2005 04:33 AM |
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It's true. War would do that.
He added a sarcastic comment at the end to show he didn't suggest it, though.
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That's the best part. 
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Wolfman
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Insomniac
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posted September 20, 2005 05:28 AM |
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Quote:
Why did you say that?
Is it not true? Did I say something incorrect?
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draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 20, 2005 05:37 AM |
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Edited By: draco on 19 Sep 2005
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We could always destroy all technology, that would solve the problem too, computers are just to damned efficiant. why pay 10 guys to build a car at 20,000$ each a year, when you can buy a computer to do it for 200,000$ that lasts 5 years?
there go 10 jobs. not only that but 10x20,000x0.3=60,000 in taxes which pay for the people who cant work,. but thats another matter.
problem with war is the massive dept buildup, that and canada doesnt have enough guns to give to everyone thats unemployed
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Khayman
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Underachiever
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posted September 20, 2005 05:44 AM |
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Legalize prostitution.
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"You must gather your party before venturing forth."
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RedSoxFan3
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Fan of Red Sox
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posted September 20, 2005 06:52 AM |
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Well I'd say nuclear holocaust would work. Eh? No people, no need for jobs. Simply brilliant.
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Go Red Sox!
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Wolfman
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posted September 20, 2005 02:56 PM |
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I believe this tread is about creating jobs not killing everyone.
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bjorn190
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posted September 20, 2005 03:05 PM |
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Hmm.. could you then please provide a link to the thread about killing everyone kind sir? 
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Jebus
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TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted September 20, 2005 03:38 PM |
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Quote:
problem with war is the massive dept buildup, that and canada doesnt have enough guns to give to everyone thats unemployed
well we COULD always just allow the fleeing population into hour country and a "room and board" cost!
we'll feed you and house you but YOU'RE paying for it!!
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and the problem isn't necessarily unemployment....
it's welfare. I don't care if you don't have a job for a bit and IE pays for you to live... but you'd better damn well find a job soon!
(and actually if Canada forced all the unemployed into the military, weather it be at production plants or soldiers, we could build an army pretty fast!  )
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Russ
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blah, blah, blah
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posted September 20, 2005 04:26 PM |
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Quote:
Legalize prostitution.
LOL! That should do it.
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted September 20, 2005 06:39 PM |
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Quote:
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and the problem isn't necessarily unemployment....
it's welfare. I don't care if you don't have a job for a bit and IE pays for you to live... but you'd better damn well find a job soon!
This attitude really never ceases to amaze me. Sure, some people who could be working are living off of welfare, but the group abusing the system this way is marginal. Most of the time, though, people with a 20% or 50% disability, who could work if they were allowed a few special arrangements, don't, because those special arrangements don't get arranged, so to speak.
Man is a producing animal, who needs to work. Don't you think this goes for unemployed people too? (Like I said, I'm talking about the great majority, here. There's always anomalies.)
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Jebus
Promising
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TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted September 20, 2005 07:16 PM |
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Quote:
This attitude really never ceases to amaze me. Sure, some people who could be working are living off of welfare, but the group abusing the system this way is marginal. Most of the time, though, people with a 20% or 50% disability, who could work if they were allowed a few special arrangements, don't, because those special arrangements don't get arranged, so to speak.
Im not sure that you've ever really worked within the system but I can speak out of experience that here in Ontario, the percentage of abuse is much higher than that(and are you sure that that's acurate or is that a guess?). and im not saying that it shouldn't exist, I just think that it's way to easy to get on, and there's no motivation to get off. Having said all that, we get calls from all sorts of groups(landed immigrants, 16 year olds without jobs, teenaged mothers who's mothers are on welfare...) just bleeding the system. If you saw the services available and how easy it is to abuse of that system you may change your opinion.
and im not much of a believer that "we" as society should be paying to support these cases.
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Man is a producing animal, who needs to work. Don't you think this goes for unemployed people too? (Live I said, I'm talking about the great majority, here. There's always anomalies.)
I never said they don't deserve to work. But we're not talking about the working population are we?
(im not sure i get your last point there)
I've been talking about people who DONT work.
People who feed of others.
(confused)
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terje_the_ma...
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posted September 20, 2005 07:30 PM |
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Hmm. I just noticed that we define "bleeding the system" differently. You see, I don't think that 16 year old single mothers with no competance on which to build a working career are actually abusing the system.
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and im not much of a believer that "we" as society should be paying to support these cases.
Then we disagree here, too, since I've always looked at how a society treats its weakest members, when trying to figure out what kind of a society it is.
Of course, I agree that welfare systems could and should be reformed, but returning to the old "poor relief" system that we here in Norway abolished in 1935 or thereabouts - a system in which the recipients are stigamtized and barely recieves enough money to support themselves and their families - isn't an option.
(I am well aware that some countries never left this "welfare state" model, but you can see how they're doing. Some neighbourhoods in American cities, e.g., have the same birth mortality as Lagos - the capital of Nigeria - or something like that.)
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Jebus
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TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted September 20, 2005 07:48 PM |
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Edited By: Jebus on 20 Sep 2005
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Quote:
Hmm. I just noticed that we define "bleeding the system" differently. You see, I don't think that 16 year old single mothers with no competance on which to build a working career are actually abusing the system.
but the fact that I've already payed my government to put in place extensive programs on birth control and protected sex makes this a case of ignorance and not accident. (im staying far away from rape or abuse cases)
There's no justifiable reason (today)for a 15 year old to have a baby (considering other options, ie abortion or adoption... don't tell me you beleive abortion to be murder too)
And to be honest the cases of 15 year old mothers that I see everyday are cases where the girl is 3,4,5 generation welfare recepients... Ill pay for you to get your education, and Ill pay for your living expenses mean while, but guess what? like me who took out a loan to study, you should have to PAY BACK the loan!
(I mean the canadian military pays for your school but you have to pay them back by serving for 4 years. why can't this be an option for welfare cases too? social services are under staffed so why dont we use people from the system FOR the system??)
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Then we disagree here, too, since I've always looked at how a society treats its weakest members, when trying to figure out what kind of a society it is
Of course, I agree that welfare systems could and should be reformed, but returning to the old "poor relief" system that we here in Norway abolished in 1935 or thereabouts - a system in which the recipients are stigamtized and barely recieves enough money to support themselves and their families - isn't an option.
(I am well aware that some countries never left this "welfare state" model, but you can see how they're doing. Some neighbourhoods in American cities, e.g., have the same birth mortality as Lagos - the capital of Nigeria - or something like that.)
short of getting into this bit by bit...
I think we're comparing 2 hugely different systems...
from my experience (both personal and working) I've seen people on teh system steal the birth certificates from another "working" person because it's that easy to get more money (BC=more money).. i've seen welfare kids wearing 300$ worth of brand name clothing with gold chains... I've seen non-working people have access to cheap housing (and im talking brand freakin' new), with 4 cars in the laneway and you can't even send them a social worker without giving them 24hrs notice cuz it infringes with their "human rights" thus giving them time to hide a second (income) adult or all their wonderfull "stuff". We have a free taxi system for any SS recipient that needs to go to the hospital and they don't need to justify multi trips back and forth to anyone... not even their social worker. they get child care subsity, recreation subsity and can pretty much get new furniture whenever they think it necessary... free dental (and christ I have to pay and I pay for my benefits!!)....
when a canadian war vet's pension is a heck of alot less than a new welfare recipient there's a problem no matter what anyone says!!
I guess im just old fashion but Ill take "natural selection" over the wonderfull society we've created and have to pay for, anytime. You know what motivates someone to get a job and work?? STARVATION!!
(but where I come from, even the homeless have access to shelter, blankets, free hot food and water!!)
.... screw this.... where do I apply!!
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted September 20, 2005 08:35 PM |
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Apply for what? Membership of death squads to "handle the poverty problem"?
Anyway, to get serious again:
Yeah, I think we're discussing this with two different systems in mind. Either you have a bigger morality problem (Norway has for a long time been know for it's pietist ideals, although they're on retreat now), or you have bigger ontrol problems. Norway is, afer all, a quite small society, compared to Canada, so I guess the social security depatements have an easier job when it comes to control abuse and suchlike.
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but the fact that I've already payed my government to put in place extensive programs on birth control and protected sex makes this a case of ignorance and not accident. (im staying far away from rape or abuse cases)
There's no justifiable reason (today)for a 15 year old to have a baby (considering other options, ie abortion or adoption... don't tell me you beleive abortion to be murder too)
Well, it's not only one person involved in making kids, you know. And when you have this 15-17 year old girl, who does not come from a very rescourseful family, and this girl goes to a party where she drinks large amounts of alcohol - could you point me to where "reason" comes into the picture?
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And to be honest the cases of 15 year old mothers that I see everyday are cases where the girl is 3,4,5 generation welfare recepients... Ill pay for you to get your education, and Ill pay for your living expenses mean while, but guess what? like me who took out a loan to study, you should have to PAY BACK the loan!
They will, if they ever manage to get a job - after all, if they get jobs, they, too, will pay taxes, no?
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(I mean the canadian military pays for your school but you have to pay them back by serving for 4 years. why can't this be an option for welfare cases too? social services are under staffed so why dont we use people from the system FOR the system??)
Well, you have a point (training unemployed for such work), but you have the problem that you can't force someone into doing something they don't want to do. Forcibly recruiting people to the army - what kind of a society does that?
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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Jebus
Promising
Supreme Hero
TheJester akaJeebs akaJebfoo
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posted September 20, 2005 09:14 PM |
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To clarify a few things...
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Anyway, to get serious again:
Yeah, I think we're discussing this with two different systems in mind. Either you have a bigger morality problem (Norway has for a long time been know for it's pietist ideals, although they're on retreat now), or you have bigger ontrol problems. Norway is, afer all, a quite small society, compared to Canada, so I guess the social security depatements have an easier job when it comes to control abuse and suchlike.
I doubt I have morality issues... and the fact is that our society (at the moment) doesn't run the way I wish it did... so im not sure if you're sayin I have morality issues (which we can debate) or Ontario is too accomodating. And I do agree that we have little or no control over abuse control for social services.
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Well, it's not only one person involved in making kids, you know. And when you have this 15-17 year old girl, who does not come from a very rescourseful family, and this girl goes to a party where she drinks large amounts of alcohol - could you point me to where "reason" comes into the picture?
so because her lack of education and "ressourcefullness" is a justifiable reason for me to pay for her mistake??
She's not accepting responsibility so why the hell should I??
and you're right it does take 2 but I've neglected to give you "Jebus' fully implemented underage birth control program" for fear or freaking you right out!!
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They will, if they ever manage to get a job - after all, if they get jobs, they, too, will pay taxes, no?
sure they will... if they get off teh system and if they get a job... but you should see the level of teenaged girls on welfare that end up pregnant and dependant on the system before they can even get the education and the job to pay taxes to begin with....
and heck, I pay taxes, AND my student loans (AND the interest on my student loans, and i never depended on the system... should they pay more??? The taxes I pay arent' to repay my debt to society.. so why shouldn't they pay back a portion (at least) or what they needed to get started??
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Well, you have a point (training unemployed for such work), but you have the problem that you can't force someone into doing something they don't want to do. Forcibly recruiting people to the army - what kind of a society does that?
Sorry should have specified... this is for the Military College (or university actually).. YOU apply knowing full well that after they pay your room and board, and your education (which is a full U degree) you have 4 years of military services to fufill before you can quit.
Otherwise you pay about 60K a year you were there.
So i guess along with all the rehab criminals that I've sent to you, you can have the welfare recipients too!
THAT should boost your population! 
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"You went over my helmet??"
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terje_the_ma...
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Disciple of Herodotus
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posted September 20, 2005 09:22 PM |
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I doubt I have morality issues... and the fact is that our society (at the moment) doesn't run the way I wish it did... so im not sure if you're sayin I have morality issues (which we can debate) or Ontario is too accomodating. And I do agree that we have little or no control over abuse control for social services.
I didn't question your morality as an individual (at least, not here). What I did was speculate in wheter Canada has lower work ethics (I guess this is kinda more specific that just "morality" ) than Norway, since it seems to me that your problems with social security abuse is much larger than ours.
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The taxes I pay arent' to repay my debt to society
Oh, so you've never used any public roads? Never used publis transportation? Never gone to public schools? Never used free health care (if you have such things in Canada)? Never gotten anything from the government?
Why the hell do you pay taxes, if not to repay what you owe society? (Or, more specific, to help society remain a society - by helping it provide collective goods that would have been freaking hard to get without tax financing.)
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"Sometimes I think everyone's just pretending to be brave, and none of us really are. Maybe pretending to be brave is how you get brave, I don't know."
- Grenn, A Storm of Swords.
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