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| Thread: HOMM and M&M stroyline questions | |
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sonoro
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 25, 2006 04:41 PM |
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Edited by sonoro on 26 Jan 2006
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HOMM and M&M stroyline questions
I have read this thread and have many many questions.
[url]http://www.celestialheavens.com/viewpage.php?id=373 [/url]
Keep in mind that this was the FIRST contact with the M&M and part of HOMM story, and I guess some of these questions can be answered simply by playing some games especially the M&M series. I’ve only played HOMM 3 and didn’t even suspect what was behind it.
1 - first of all is there anymore info on the ancients and the kreegans? Why has the war between them took place?
2 - the ancients are gods granted, but just what is the level of technology they possess? If they have space travel capability it must be high…
3 - …which brings me to another question: the kreegans seen in antagarich (by the way does anyone know the planet's name? I know its not terra) are nothing more than crude beasts so if the ancients are so evolved why are they having so much trouble dealing with the kreegans?
4 - is life in this universe an exclusive creation of the ancients or is there space for the imagination? Are there any more advanced species or is the totality of life in this universe (ancients excluded of course) still in the magical medieval times?
5 - in M&M series there’s mention of VARN CRON and XEEN. Those are planets but VARN meaning “Vehicular Astropod Research Nacelle” together with “Many of these worlds had appointed "guardians", who were sent to guide those flat planets to their appointed place in the galaxy” leads me to believe these planets are perhaps giant biological spacecrafts that travel to a certain place? (This Sheltom character has been driving or trying to drive planets off course in the first M&M episodes) Or does “appointed place in the galaxy” means some kind of hierarchy of the worlds? What’s Nacelle?
6 - are these groups of adventurers seen throughout the Might & Magic series related to the ancients? Are they sent to investigate what’s going wrong or is this role only occupied by Corak? If Corak is sent by the ancients (we don’t know if he’s an ancient or not) why doesn’t he use some sort of death ray gun to eliminate Sheltem? (Keep in mind I know nothing of the M&M games)
7 - portals are mentioned frequently. Is the town portal spell, for example, somehow scientifically generated or is it purely magic-based? Just to what extent do magic and technology fuse themselves is this series?
8 - in M&M 6 the stoned Archibald has a “magic item that will teleport the Kreegan Queen's hive in northwestern Enroth”. Hive? As in insects? Then in Homm 3: RoE we get to know there are Kreegans in Antagarich: Eofull and Nighon (Inferno and Dungeon). Do these Kreegan fellows come in many forms? Are there any sightings throughout the M&M series or even in the other HOMM games?
9 - the archangels remain a bit of a mystery. Are they part of the planet’s indigenous life or some kind of way to help the ancients regain control of the planet?
10 - in M&M 8 (same planet as HOMM 3) there’s a faction, the dark elves of Jadame. And the player reaches Catherine Roland and Xanthor through sea. Is Jadame another Continent?
11 - one of the endings of M&M 7 was to go back to the ancients right? Do we gain any insight about them or the kreegans? Do we actually see the meeting?
Guess that’s it for now. If someone knows all the answers, well, you’re a big fan mate. But I guess most of them aren’t even explained in the games themselves.
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ratmonky
Famous Hero
Abu Hur Ibn Rashka
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posted January 25, 2006 06:16 PM |
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If you know Russian, read the complete story of Might and Magic together with maps and stuff here
it's over 100 pages of reading
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Dies illa, dies irae,
Calamitatis et miseriae.
Requiem aeternum
Dona eis, dona eis Domine.
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sonoro
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 25, 2006 08:05 PM |
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Edited by sonoro on 25 Jan 2006
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Damn. I don't know russian... but it defenitly seems everything's in there 
Thanks for the tip anyway. At least I have a better picture of Jadama, Enroth and Antagarich.
1 down, 10 to go.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted January 27, 2006 05:09 AM |
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The groups of adventurers, at least in MM 6, 7, and 8, are natives of the land. They're not related to the Ancients. Somewhere (on the old official forums?), the developers explained that the MM worlds are the former homes of technological societies, now fallen to "barbarism." So, for example, the Oracle of Enroth in MM6 is actually a large computer which has fallen into disrepair. The player party, coming from the low-tech society, has to learn about the sci-fi aspects bit by bit. They end up exploring areas that are basically decrepit spaceships, like the Hive.
A developer also said that the "real" nature of angels would shock the fans. To my knowledge, however, the developers never enlightened us further.  My assumption was that angels are androids/artificial intelligences/mechanical agents similar to Sheltam, Corak, and Escaton. My impression is not that the Ancients are gods, but that they're a race with technology so far advanced that it seems like magic. So, to the question of whether portals are technology or magic, the answer would be...both?  Since the player is always given the perspective of the low-tech inhabitants of the lands, it's hard to judge exactly how good the Ancients' technology is. (It's also hard to figure out where the "native" magic, like necromancy, comes from. There are a number of references to necromancy being developed within the low-tech society. How is that related to high-tech = magic? No clue. There are some holes in this universe...)
I assumed that the Kreegans, who also have space travel, are in the same league as the Ancients. Hence the conflict. They're clearly an alien group, presumably with multiple species? It's also mentioned in-game (Heroes Chronicles?) that the Kreegan planet-hop because they're proliferate breeders who overrun, use up, and burn out their habitats quickly. The intro movie of MM 6 shows them invading the Enroth/Antagarich/Jadme planet. The invasion is dubbed "Night of Shooting Stars" by inhabitants seeing the incoming spaceships. You deal with more Kreegans in MM 7. In that game, their lair looks less like a spaceship and more organic, like a giant organ (eeeww).
Jadme is indeed another continent. The HoMM 1-3/MM 6-8 planet has three continents: Enroth, Antagarich (with Erathia and company), and Jadme. If the planet itself has a name, we don't know it.
At the end of MM 7, iIrc, you talk to one of the space travellers who crashed, and that's how you get the background. I don't think you ever get to meet an actual Ancient.
For the record, MM 6 and MM 7 blend together in my mind because they look similar and I played them concurrently. I also haven't played any of the earlier MM games. (Well, I did try MM 4 and 5, but was thwarted by antique graphics and great confusion. )
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted January 27, 2006 09:29 AM |
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See if this helps...
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sonoro
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 27, 2006 03:07 PM |
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Edited by sonoro on 27 Jan 2006
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getting there
At Vlaad: that site says exacly the same has the thread in my first post but thanks anyway.
At khaelo: it seems then, that part of it is still very much in the dark eh? At least you've given me some pointers and a particular detail that will reveal itself a very very nice piece of information 
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bloodandhonor
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posted January 27, 2006 07:00 PM |
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I was just reading that site and it ways it is possible to get to a place called "Vori"
(Never heard of it!)
Is it possible?
I don't mean to start a war or anything like it says but is it possible?
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bloodandhonor
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posted January 28, 2006 08:54 PM |
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Anyone?
It says on MM websites it is impossible to get there, and then they have maps showing where everything is and what monsters are there. It also tells what quests you can do there and the dungeons and everything.
This is whats confusing me.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted January 28, 2006 09:32 PM |
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Edited by Khaelo on 28 Jan 2006
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Vori. Watch the fine print at the bottom. Edit: A Might and Magic FAQ resolves the Vori issue -- see under MM 7. /Edit
BTW: You can use the search function on the old Round Table to find a lot of interesting info from serious MM players. The Table has since moved (here), but the old archives are still online. And if you think the HoMM/MM world-building is full of holes, try constructing a viable timeline for plot events! 
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Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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AcidDragon
Promising
Famous Hero
who lost his body somehow...
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posted January 29, 2006 01:52 PM |
bonus applied. |
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1 - Well - There's no complete story about it and the info on their war pops up from time to time in the MM games, but generally - when the Kreegans appeared (about 1500 years before the MM6 took place) they began attacking the colonies of the Ancients.
this is a screenshot from MM6, wchich you might find interesting.
2 - The Ancients are not gods - but they most probably developed some kind of a way to keep them from aging granting themselves a certain form of immortality (though you can still kill them). They posses quite a level of technology, including not only starships, but great majestic vessels that some people mistake for small planets! I suppose they also invented a way to create some sort of intergalactic, space-bending tunnels (you have some info about that in the screenshot) - or simply: advanced "portals", which were used to keep contact with all the worlds, where the Ancients appeared, however - the Kreegans managed to destroy that, so the Ancients had to use more conventional () ways of traveling - like a simple, plain old space ship .
3 - No, I don't know the planet's name, though in some places it is reffered to as 'the world of Enroth', though Enroth is really a continent.
And the Kreegans are not so dumb as they look - they in fact have their own spaceships and technology - or at least - they are capable of using it. That's how they came to Enroth and Antagarich in the first place. Besides that they are a LOT more numerous then the Ancients, as they have conquered many worlds and they're using them to multiply even more - they are like insects, like ants. They also have a 'queen' in every place they want to conquer to breed more and more devils.
4 - No, the life in the universe is not an exclusive creation of the Ancients, though the number of worlds, where the Ancients have 'seeded' life is quite big. I remember only once where another advanced civilization was mentioned - they were called 'Creators', however I have reasons to suspect, that this is just another name for the 'Kreegans' - since the Creators were also described as a destructive force attacking the colonies of the Ancients and later only the name 'Kreegans' is used to talk about the Ancients' enemies. In any case - all the other worlds, where the Anciets have not appeared are not mentioned or they are simply mentioned as "empty", lifeless planets. Also note that the medieval worlds we are exploring in the HoMM-MM are "medieval" because once they were very advanced but after the Kreegan attacks and loosing contact with the Ancients, they degenerated to barbarism. Also a thing more: The Ancients did not 'create' life as far as I know, but they only 'helped' other worlds to develop - and if a world was just a lifeless wasteland, the Ancients brought many lifeforms there on the board of those giant vessels I wrote earlier - VARNs and CRONs.
5 - So, I guess I already answered this one - VARNs and CRONs are in reality just artificial worlds created by the Ancients - they are capable of moving through solar systems, but because they are so big (the CRONs have the size of a small planet and can have many kingdoms on them), it takes quite a lot of time to reach their destiny (it took Sheltem a few years to get back on the board of Varn4 to Terra). I'm not sure about XEEN (whether it is a natural world highly modified by the Ancients or a totally artificial one), but I'm quite sure it's not used to transport life forms like the VARNs and CRONs were.
6 - The adventurers of the MM games are practicaly not connected with the Ancients - in MM1 they are just residents of VARN4 wanting to know the secret of their king's inner sanctum and it was always something similar in the other parts - only later, in the end the adventurers found out that their main quest is somehow connected with the Ancients and/or another world.
Now Corak - Corak is not an Ancient but one of their androids - androids were sent as 'guardians' to those worlds, which were developed by the Ancients. The Guardians were the first line of defense in case of any danger. However, after the Kreegans destroyed the Ancients' network, also some different androids were created for different tasks, which the Ancients could not concentrate on their own. Corak was one of them - his task was to bring Sheltem back to the Ancients for "repairs" and then to take over the role as the guardian of Terra.
Corak could not beat Sheltem that easily as you suggest simply because they both were androids and they both had a similar level of power. They could also gain even more power, which is what Sheltem used to eventually gain an advantage on Corak.
7 - well the portals could in fact be treated as something both - magical and technological. As a simple 'town portal' spell has nothing to do with technology (as far as I know) it cannot transport you to another world. Portals that are capable of such a task must have a lot more energy - more than any mage in the world is capable of creating. And of course - to build such a portal you need not only an energy source, but also the technology needed to use it and transform its energy. Also note, that a magical portal cannot take you to another continent even. It simply doesn't have enough power. There is one hole in this however - and that's the portals that transported people from Antagarich to Axeoth. However their origins remain unknown, so they may very well have been connected with the Ancients as well.
Besides that you may also want to reconsider treating magic and technology as something totally different - after all - they are just ways of controlling and transforming energy. A mage does that through concentration and by using his own internal energy called 'mana', a technician does that by using an external power source and the technology to drain energy from it in the right form. But in the end the result is the same - space-bending tunnels in this case. Of course in reality the technology needed to build such a portal or the ammount of needed energy has nothing to do with.... reality , but this kind of technology has the same rights to exist as magic.
8 - About the Hive - so as I already mentioned, yes the Kreegans' life cycle is similar to those of insects. However the name 'hive' is used only to describe that in this place their queen resides and this is the place, where they multiply. The Hive however was in fact their space vesssel with its own technology. When the Kreegans came to Enroth they also simply expanded to Antagarich, near the Land of the Giants, creating a colony of their own - Zod, and the land near it was soon named Eofol (though it was never a country like Erathia or Bracada). You ask about their forms - yes, Kreegans come in very different forms - there are workers, fighters, generals, some of them have wings and fly, others are just used as 'bait' or scouts. That's why we see quite many forms in the HoMM-MM games. However you must remember that gogs and efreets in HoMM are not Kreegans but only creatures that are alied with them. And the hell hounds are most probably just Kreegans' "pets" and most probably they also come from Antagarich. So in H3 we have imps, demons, pit friends and devils and I'm almost certain they're all different forms of Kreegans (I'm not 100% sure in case of those demons). Finally you ask about Kreegans in the other MM-HoMM games. Well ASIDE from the invasion on Enroth and Antagarich (MM6, MM7, HoMM3), we also meet them in Heroes Chronicles - The Fiery Moon, where (with some help from a mad Ancestor, Vorr) they may again threathen our world by comming through a portal from a world they have already conquered. However Tarnum manages to stop Vorr and as a result - stops another potential invasion. We also meet Kreegans in H4, where again - a powerful being, this time Gaudolth travels to a world conquered by Kreegans (don't ask me how he travels there , the H4 storyline is WAY of course ) but this time he succeeds and brings the devils to Axeoth (the reasons why Kreegans would want to take commands from a Necromancer and wouldn't want to conquer this world remain unknown - as I said - H4 storyline ). The last Kreegan sighting on out world I can remember was in Warriors of Might and Magic, where their powerful general, a sort of a demi-god (but in reality a creature with great regeneration powers), Daglathor is ressurected. And killed once more . Besides that we also meet different devils in the earlier MM(1-5) games, though the name 'Kreegans' is never used and they don't seem to play any important role. Though then again - they were the last enemies fought on Xeen in the planet's main control sector, just before the uniting of its both sides...
On the side note, we also fight some kind of 'demons' in Heroes Chronicles - Conquest of the Underworld, but because a king's soul is involved in this, I doubt the demons there (or the Inferno towns) have got anything to do with Kreegans.
9 - The Angels... Khaelo already said that one of the authors (and by the way that was Greg Fulton - the main designer of the Forge town in AB and its original storyline) said that if he told us the origins of the Angels then he was sure many of the fans would have a heart attack. However that was never revealed by him, JvC or anyone else. We can only try to guess. However note two things: Angels never have their own dwellings or places to grow - they always come through PORTALS. Now - from where is the question? Secondly - No angel has ever said anything or did something on his own - they just fight. And surely they are not just great beasts as hydras or behemoths. I'm not sure whether the Angels are just a type of androids or whether they are living 'clones' with a blank mind or whether they are a rase of the Ancients' soldiers only following orders. However I am almost certian that their origins are connected with the Ancients in one way or another. Besides that - we also have pure logic: if the devils are in reality an alien rase fighting a war with the Ancients, then the angels must also be a sort of a 'good' counterpart for them.
10 - Yes, as Khaelo already said - Jadame is another continent. Aside from Enroth and Antagarich we also have some big islands that could also be considered as continents. Vori (just to the north-west from Anatagrich) is one of them. Another one is Karigor (somewhere near Jadame), where the action of Might and Magic Tribute will take place.
11 - A thing before I begin the MM7 ending question - originally the 'evil' ending was suppose to be true - Castore and the 'evil' Terra people were to win and create the Forge in H3 AB - but as you know the Forge was scrapped and that was the first moment in the HoMM-MM history, where we had problems with the storyline continuity. Now, about the 'good ending' - no, we don't get to meet the Ancients - we only get to a space-base Beta 5, where we meet another Corak . He explains a bit about the Kreegans' and the Ancients' war and most importantly - about the destruction of the Ancients' network of gates which is the reason why the 'good' Terra people cannot reach the Anciets' homeland (and the reason why the worlds degenerated to barbarism - Corak says that he would help them but he is ordered not to leave this base). There is simply no contact with them from over 1000 years. The last words in the ending were something like: "so where can we go from here?" "go? wherever you want my friends, wherever you want". My guess is that the Terra people used the operational gates on Beta 5 to reach THEIR homeland - Terra (Corak says something pointig at a planet that 'this is the world, from which you come from')
(Sorry for my mistakes and poor translation, but I'm not an expert in English ).
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sonoro
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 29, 2006 11:23 PM |
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Your mistakes are more than apologized matte.
What you described was more or less the general idea I had.
Thanks a lot for the info.
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