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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -DUNGEON-
Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -DUNGEON- This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV
JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 04, 2016 09:57 AM

Yup - does WoG allow to change these amounts, by the way?

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AlHazin
AlHazin


Promising
Supreme Hero
النور
posted October 04, 2016 10:29 AM

Also, how to do that without altering the AI behaviour, as it would be better if it remained as strong as on impossible.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 04, 2016 11:59 AM

Yes, WoG allows changing those amounts, as anything else. But also WoG is very unstable multiplayer so one great thing for one bad thing, no progress.

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Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 07, 2018 07:29 AM

Dungeon is one of the weakest town in the game due to lack of key unit in early game. Evil eye is too expensive and inflict little damage whereas medusas need upgrade badly. Not benefiting speed bonus from surface area is another disadvantage. Building order also does not allow to skip mid lewel dwellings.

I have no idea is upgrading red dragons always necessary since they become unaffected by plenty of beneficial spells. Magic immunity is called as two-edged sword but I think it is more like harmful.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted September 07, 2018 09:17 PM

JollyJoker said:
Play on impossible, with your L3 needing all resources to build this can be quite ugly.

For me this is the biggest handy-cap of Dungeon. If you lack a single special resource you can be stocked for days at level 2 and that will ware out all the extra trogs and make your progress extremely slow.  
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 07, 2018 11:59 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 00:04, 08 Sep 2018.

There really should have been a difficulty level between Expert and Impossible, where you start with 2 of each rare ressource, 5 wood and ore and some gold. Otherwise yes Dungeon can be litterally impossible on Impossible.
But an easy solution would be to add the rare ressource cost to Evil Eyes instead of Beholders.

But what about Tower's Mage building or Stronghold's Cyclops building, those are also extremely expensive...

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted September 08, 2018 12:09 AM

Otuken said:
I have no idea is upgrading red dragons always necessary since they become unaffected by plenty of beneficial spells. Magic immunity is called as two-edged sword but I think it is more like harmful.


This is also what always cools me down me about dungeon. And seems many others too as afaik I know NO single player map (at least those rating from decent to good +) where the dungeon (or even rampart) is given to human player for the entire game. The fact that you can't keep your 7th tier through resurrection from one battle to another is lethal. But I saw many multiplayer games where it shines, especially because the combo Shakti/dragon cave early/portal of summoning. So dungeon is worth when there is one final battle, the MP area.

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Otuken
Otuken


Adventuring Hero
posted September 08, 2018 12:48 AM

phoenix4ever said:
There really should have been a difficulty level between Expert and Impossible, where you start with 2 of each rare ressource, 5 wood and ore and some gold. Otherwise yes Dungeon can be litterally impossible on Impossible.
But an easy solution would be to add the rare ressource cost to Evil Eyes instead of Beholders.

But what about Tower's Mage building or Stronghold's Cyclops building, those are also extremely expensive...


Tower can skip mage tower in HotA, crystals are also no longer problem for cyclops. But Dungeon has to still build beholder's dwelling.

Imho these buildings should be expensive and they were supposed to remain being expensive in HotA because Tower's high level units are overpowered and Stronghold had easy access to Behemoths whereas Dungeon still suffers from these privilages.




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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 08, 2018 08:25 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:26, 08 Sep 2018.

Otuken said:
phoenix4ever said:
Tower can skip mage tower in HotA, crystals are also no longer problem for cyclops. But Dungeon has to still build beholder's dwelling.

In my opinion HotA made a mistake with changing Tower's build order, now you will most likely get mages AFTER giants. They should instead have moved some of the rare ressources from Mages to Arch Mages, same with Cyclops.
I also hate how Conflux requires Magic University for Sprites and that Inferno no longer needs Mage Guild 2 for Pit Lords.

Conflux, Rampart and Dungeon can sometimes feel weak, because of limited Resurrection. With Rampart and Dungeon I will always try to find Orb Of Vulnerability, but that does'nt work for Conflux.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 08, 2018 08:28 AM

Before I write this, let me remind you that I also think the ideal dificulty level (for every purpose) would be "Master" with 5000 Gold and so on, simply because that makes you independent from initial and immediate layout and hands you a couple of options, but you are running out of them quite fast.

That said, the Impossible diff level is obviously the only one that is a problem - but it's called IMPOSSIBLE for a reason. It doesn't make sense to play small maps on that level, because it's too dependent on luck, and that is true for everyone: try getting Fortress going on impossible - and you can forget the magic heroes for that as well.

Anyway, I wrote this already a couple of years ago. With Dungeon, you can forget the "regular" strategies anyway, because, simply spoken, their L1-L6 creatures are crap, when it comes to damage output. Beholders are a cash grave because they don't get ANY job done. They are neither fish nor flesh with ranged penalty, low damage and no melee penalty (they would need the maneuvering skill of later games with their characteristics), and while you HAVE to build them to move on, they are of no use (on impossible, where you are strapped for cash and want an army with a high bang-for-the-buck value). Going on with Medusas don't help either, because 4 of them won't make as few difference as 3 Minotaurs.

So the solution is, FORGET THEM. Your "key units" are upgraded L1 and L2. You are reasonably fast, chances are you'll get an outside dwelling and then you can summon more into town; 100 or more upgraded Trogs are pretty nasty and get a lot of jobs done. It helps that you have a ton of classy buildings aside of creatures, and it also helps that you have a ton of classy heroes. You can go both ways and support your low level stuff with either spells or might (Tactics).

Repeat - on impossible creatures starting with level 3 are unimportant week 1, and if you don't get much done in week 2 it's no problem either. You can safely ignore them in week 1. Even if you are a lucky guy and get the stuff - building Beholders isn't a pressing business, because a couple more or less won't make a difference in the big picture. You may be a lot better off with MG 2 - depending on your heroes of course, but a P5 Lightning Bolt is a pretty decent way to kill a dozen Marksmen or 8 Grand Elves.

What I miss, when I play Dungeon in H3 is the Elemental Storm spell of H2 which is an L4 spell with half the Armageddon capacity (25 damage pP). Controlled magic Destruction.

I also remember fondly a story from the time when I've been playing online, there was a team turney (2vs2), and first round we played as Conflux (me) and Dungeon (friend of mine, went by the handle of Fels which is German for rock). First round we were drawn against a Conflux/Conflux combo, which wasn't cool, because it meant, opponent would come with combined armies and best hero eventually. Turned out, the map-maker had screwed up because he had put a grail onto the map, and later the results showed that all games were won by the teams with the grail in THEIR map region (the grail wasn't even hidden in some neutral terrain). All except one, that is. When it became clear, that we did NOT have the grail on our territory, we shared resources, so the Conflux would build creatures and the Dungeon build an MG, the Confluc main hero going on a killing spree with Sprites, ending in the Dungeon town, getting - and that's important - AS EXPECTED Town Portal. Equipped with that said Conflux hero (who was very fast) broke into enemy territory and captured one enemy Conflux - who had already managed to dig out the grail. If the captured Conflux would have been the grail one, game would have been over immediately, but it wasn't, and so there was a nice decisive battle at the start of week 2, that I won, by basically using the Phoenixes as bait to conserve the Psychics and make best use of their abilities.

I tell the story, because in my experience you can basically rely on Dungeon MG being excellent - which is a big advantage in my book.

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 14, 2018 10:35 AM

Otuken said:
Magic immunity is called as two-edged sword but I think it is more like harmful.

Magic immunity is bad vs the map... and 95% of the game you play vs the map.

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