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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -INFERNO-
Thread: Heroes 3 Town Rating -INFERNO- This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 28, 2009 05:05 PM

I have to underline what Angelito says: you must never consider a one on one fight to state which is stronger. There are soooo many equations in Heroes combat issues that any thread about "imp is stronger than sprite" is pointless.

The MP aspect is giving the right results. Not single. Because in MP you have to develop quicker than your opponent thus use multiple strategies and plans. You will almost never have enough archangels to effectively use clone/resurrect properly. So their best ability is not operating, unless you play an XL map and still running around month 3.

Archdevils are fragile, but having one and expert slow will give you almost unlimited experience against anything on the map not immune to magic. You can't achieve the same thing with an archangel. On the other side an archangel will be more useful in other situations. But in the end, all is about which creatures combinations allow a faster level up and treasure gain. And they have all good sides and bad sides.
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Geltnim
Geltnim


Hired Hero
posted August 28, 2009 10:08 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Devils are cute babies in comparison to Dread Knights; sure, 2 Dread Knights may not be that much of a deal for a Devil (though even then, I doubt he'd win them all alone) but 8 Dread Knights will CRUSH the 4 Devils, even if they attack first.


If you read my post you will see that 8 DREAD Knights will win against 4 (simple) Devils only if their first attack strike is a double hit PLUS a couple of lucky things after this happen. If the first attack strike of them is NO double attack (80% probability) then they will ALWAYS lose.
No offense, but if you play the game for 7 years now, as you say, you seem to could have put the time playing as Inferno to a bit better use.




I pretty much do nothing out of utilitaristic motives. Whatever I deploy myself on, I do it either for the sheer pleasure, or to avoid negative consequences that could arise from not doing it. That said, I've always played and will play Heroes for the love of it, regardless of the mistakes I may make. I love playing Heroes, I don't see it as a task I need to accomplish to become better at strategy, or psychomotoric skills, or anything... Will I play as my very favorite town (Conflux) for seven days just to lose in the end? Fine with me! I relished all the time I spent playing, and that is what fulfills me most. I tried (and, evidentially enough, failed) to participate in the meaningless debate on who is stronger: 8 Dread Knight or 4 Devils? I'm content with Alcibiades' back-up, he gave a realistic and well-proved insight on Dread Knights being more rewarding (not "stronger") as units.

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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted August 28, 2009 10:36 PM

it was you who started the "psychomotoric" stuff, by analyzing Inferno creature by creature with the result that they suck lol...
just never admit anything, way to go

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Geltnim
Geltnim


Hired Hero
posted August 28, 2009 11:51 PM

Quote:
it was you who started the "psychomotoric" stuff, by analyzing Inferno creature by creature with the result that they suck lol...
just never admit anything, way to go







I did what the thread creator asked the members to do, by commenting on the stats of Inferno creatures.

Do you happen to be somewhat offended by what I wrote about Inferno... you know, as for the poorly rewarding (yet nonetheless so amazing) ability of the pit lords to ressurect. E.g. to have an extra 50 demons at the expense of the 450 imps killed, I mean, my grief for losing that much imps would overshadow the demons bonus, demons being not that much of a threat for a little-above-average enemy hero anyway...


The "Devil's frailty" thing is a confirmed truth unless they are either under the command of a hero with a 5+ attack, or upgraded to arch devils; but that way, I'd be more economic and wait till I actually buy arch devils.

If I am to write about inferno what you'll be pleased with, I really don't want to do it. I constantly put up with dozens of slanderings at the expense of conflux, and the least I can come up with in return is being unbiased and frank about other towns.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted August 29, 2009 07:59 PM

You miss an important point here: Conservatories and Dragon fly hives!

From both special map objects, you recieve strong troops as reward. To carry them with you, you need to "dismiss" 2 of your nature troops. With Inferno, you do not need to do that. You just turn them into demons.

And secondly, you would prefer to have a single fast unit like Sultans for example, to attack an enemy unit (Ancients behemots or Titans for example) and take retaliation, so your main stack can attack without recieving retail. For this "tactical" movement, you need to "dismiss" a 3rd stack of units. But with inferno, you do not need to do that...you turn them into demons also...
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Conan_dw
Conan_dw


Hired Hero
posted August 29, 2009 08:43 PM

Quote:
demons being not that much of a threat for a little-above-average enemy hero anyway...





uuuuhhhhhhh....

think of an endfight with ca 10 lvl 7er on both sides. Both heros have ca. equal stats and equal numbers of lvl 7, 6 and 5 units. BUT inferno player has 150 demons on his side! against the almighty archangels (to take the strongest lvl7 unit of all towns in the example!)this demons do ca. 720 damage! this kills ca 3 of the 10 archangels (!). often the archangels are the only REAL dangerous stack of the castle town, maybe togehter with the champions. inferno has the noretaliate lvl7er, the very hard hitting sultans with furius speed, the extrem hard hiting pits AND another stack more which kills 3 archangels alone! not to speak of the 6000hp, this stack has!

in all games i played with or against inferno, this demonstack has been a REAL threat for the other player :-)
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Geltnim
Geltnim


Hired Hero
posted August 29, 2009 09:57 PM

Quote:
Quote:
demons being not that much of a threat for a little-above-average enemy hero anyway...





uuuuhhhhhhh....

think of an endfight with ca 10 lvl 7er on both sides. Both heros have ca. equal stats and equal numbers of lvl 7, 6 and 5 units. BUT inferno player has 150 demons on his side! against the almighty archangels (to take the strongest lvl7 unit of all towns in the example!)this demons do ca. 720 damage! this kills ca 3 of the 10 archangels (!). often the archangels are the only REAL dangerous stack of the castle town, maybe togehter with the champions. inferno has the noretaliate lvl7er, the very hard hitting sultans with furius speed, the extrem hard hiting pits AND another stack more which kills 3 archangels alone! not to speak of the 6000hp, this stack has!

in all games i played with or against inferno, this demonstack has been a REAL threat for the other player :-)





At what cost are those 150 demons got? At the cost of a hell of a number of killed 1-4 lvl troops. Entire stacks of Cerberi/ Magogs/ Efreet (well why not, they, also, often die before pit lords) needed to be decimated... And I will want to have loads of cerberi and magogs for the end battle, just so you know. 75 demons instead of 150 of them will serve me well enough if I have plenty of other troops (17 arch devils and so on, for example).


Also, put it this way: after devil would know how many weeks and months of gathering army, you've finally accumulated 150 demons. But, guess what: the opponent, e.g. castle, has 25 archangels and 50 champions... oh, and 80-ish crusaders, who, if they attack the demons first,  will reduce the number of demons for at least 50, making afterwards the battle against inferno a child's play. And, oh, fudge, the throngs of cerberi and imps are not there to help, as they died to go into demons; while castle has plenty of royal griffins!


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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted August 29, 2009 11:37 PM

Quote:
At what cost are those 150 demons got? At the cost of a hell of a number of killed 1-4 lvl troops. Entire stacks of Cerberi/ Magogs/ Efreet (well why not, they, also, often die before pit lords) needed to be decimated... And I will want to have loads of cerberi and magogs for the end battle, just so you know. 75 demons instead of 150 of them will serve me well enough if I have plenty of other troops (17 arch devils and so on, for example).


Also, put it this way: after devil would know how many weeks and months of gathering army, you've finally accumulated 150 demons. But, guess what: the opponent, e.g. castle, has 25 archangels and 50 champions... oh, and 80-ish crusaders, who, if they attack the demons first,  will reduce the number of demons for at least 50, making afterwards the battle against inferno a child's play. And, oh, fudge, the throngs of cerberi and imps are not there to help, as they died to go into demons; while castle has plenty of royal griffins!




Uh..NO...you take L1/L2 from the towns you pick up along the way.
You take troops from Pandoraīs boxes that donīt fit into your army.
And YES you take gogs because they SUCK in the final battle, and NO you do not take Cerberi because they are good.

And I (yep ME) needs 1 month MAX to create a nice stack of demons when i play online. If it is a faster game, i can do it it before week 4 starts.

Did YOU ever play someone who mastered Inferno online?
Did you ever get crushed late week 3 or early week 4?
No, i didnīt think so, you are just talking out of your A...ok letīs stop here. Boring to argue with people who never actually really played this game online.

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Conan_dw
Conan_dw


Hired Hero
posted August 29, 2009 11:44 PM

yes, he dont want to listen to our arguments....

as i wrote, those 150 demons are raised when there are ca. 10 lvl7er on both sides, not at a time were we are talking about 25 AA and 50 champs....

and at THIS time those horned 6000hp are kicking ass  :-)
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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted August 29, 2009 11:52 PM

lol aye, and 10 L7 is already a lot for many games.
And it wasnīt even mentioned that those demons can be used as cannon fodder vs. the map, with zero losses in the end after they have been raised again.

But this doesnīt bother him, he has his 20 AA vs. comp opponents, i wouldnīt need demons there either

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Geltnim
Geltnim


Hired Hero
posted August 30, 2009 10:35 AM

Quote:
yes, he dont want to listen to our arguments....

as i wrote, those 150 demons are raised when there are ca. 10 lvl7er on both sides, not at a time were we are talking about 25 AA and 50 champs....

and at THIS time those horned 6000hp are kicking ass  :-)





It is you who are trying to deviate the facts to your advantage. When ever will pit lords be able to raise so many demons? At the end of the seventh month? When it would be most normal for castle to get 20-ish archangels (provided he has built the portal of glory in the 1st-2nd week of the second month). Plus, what guarantees you none of the demons from the stack will perish in earlier combats before the final one.

And surely you must know the opponent just adores to attack the pit lords, and will try anything to kill them off first. Now if the 50 pit lord stack was reduced to, say, 20, and those 20 are to ressurect demons from 450 fellow imps who all died. You think 20 pit lords will summon 50 demons from the stack? I don't. They will instead summon at most 20 demons. Who, after the combat, if inferno wins, will join the other "original" stack of demons. And there are NO bonus demons at all, because...


...well, it's a sphinx's question to you now



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Conan_dw
Conan_dw


Hired Hero
posted August 30, 2009 11:51 AM

i thought, i would NEVER do this, but i know no other option now:

L2P!

u raise in every little fight exactly so many demons, as a) your fodderstack will generate or b) your pitstack could raise. why do u want transform ur 450 imps at ONCE in demons? from the moment i have pitlords, i start the farmin of demons. little by litte. and i give u one hint: those creatures against u have no retaliation are GREAT for farming, cause sometimes the retaliation of ur fodderstack is to strong for the enemies.

its how i (and ALL other here!) said: 100-150 demons are raised veeeeeery quick! most times it longes a little bit longer (but only a LITTLE!) than a good player would master his map without farming, and this minimal more time is the chance for the other player to take the win. result: when playing against humans, u have to HURRY, cause time is all! when playing against a human who has inferno u have to EXTREMLY hurry :-)
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c0ldshadow
c0ldshadow


Known Hero
666 Demons Rise from the Dead
posted September 12, 2009 09:50 PM

a user posted:
"
Some rumour says that if we have Arch Devil in our troops, we can't retreat or surrender bcoz of the great honour of Arch Devil. But I've not proven it yet."

is this true lol?
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rottenvenetic
rottenvenetic


Known Hero
Derusticated
posted September 14, 2009 01:17 PM
Edited by rottenvenetic at 13:21, 14 Sep 2009.

Hell no you can retreat with arch devils just fine.

Anyhow, farming demons out of non-inferno units seems like a totally broken (in a good way) idea, if I can get RMG templates working I definitely have to give it a go, with Marius to add insult to injury

Imps should work well when I don't have any foreign troops and my pit lords are few.

Still, inferno stinks! All that sulphur... seriously. Sulphur != perfume.

Edit: will be hard to lose stacks on purpose but isn't there a secondary benefit to demon farming that you will attack stronger neutrals who have enough punch to decimate your fodder, which will net you their better goodies?

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ohforfsake
ohforfsake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted September 15, 2009 01:34 PM
Edited by ohforfsake at 13:37, 15 Sep 2009.

My farvorite town, for a few reasons.

First of all when I occasionally play this game, I do so with friends, and my friends pretty much never choose inferno, which is why I choose it in the first place, so it won't be some castle vs. castle or conflux vs. conflux battle, etc.

Secondly, I know my friends style, they often don't go into underground passages, and teleporters because it's a limited space, or they might risk stepping on a trap, therefore it's often an advantage for me to choose an underground town, such as inferno.

Thirdly, inferno is the best choice of the 3 underground towns when you make a random map, because the vampires of necropolis and the general high power of dungeon often makes my friends going for these town when they feel like they want to be "evil", and often they will head surface right away anyway.

So about the town itself, it's not as fast as necropolis, and it does not have the same end game power of dungeon, but I believe it lies in between. All my points have really already been said, in general I do avoid what I tend to think as weak monsters that I can't use to much.

My game often goes like this:
Getting Devils week 1 and castle week 2.
Getting pit lords week 2 and start herding demons (I search a lot for diplomacy in this period of time).
Then I go for getting my first main hero type, often I'll either use efreeti sultans + armageddon + surrender with scouts and arch devils + forcefield with main.

If I can, I try to find the orb of inhibition, and also of vulnerability, together with schackles of war and the special armor that casts slow, for my main attack hero, then I'll let the demon herding end up with him (retreat and rehire him in the closest town, make certain he has town portal, give him the demons via a scout that has town portal).

Otherwise I'll use armageddon and efreeti sultans (phoenixes when I get these) to weaken the opponents army, as I use scouts and small armies it won't be any catastrophe if I can't escape, due to shackles.

What I really like about inferno however is this:
With a sufficient good demon herding, you'll have an army only to be defeated by few in the end game if you've made your main attacker well, mostly necropolis will be a problem. However unless the necro hero (who'll have low moral if so) have gathered some faster creatures, you can with merely +1 speed go first and weaken his army quite a lot. You can repeat this quite often with the right heroes.

The same you can do against 50% of all opponent towns.
The other 50% you stand a great chance against if you've aquired enough demons. Where 50% of these towns can't ressurect their tier 7 unit. Though most of all due to only 1 of these towns will have level 7 week 1 in the occasional random map. This one town which is also overpowered, but still good because you can let your weaker friends use this town then.

So all in all, I don't win every time against my friends, but my tactics works against them, and every time I've a new little detail I use, and as I use a town they don't like, I know it won't be the same towns against eachother again and again, and I like it better.

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EnCamp
EnCamp

Tavern Dweller
posted August 25, 2012 09:56 AM

I dislike Inferno for a number of reasons. Although their starting costs are pretty cheap, the town has a lot of disadvantages.

The only standout units are Archdevils and Efreet Sultans, which aren't even top of their class. Archdevils have great mobility and no retal is a huge plus, but pale in comparison to most tier 7s. Dread Knights and Naga Queens can easily take out a larger group of Archdevils. Freaking expensive upgrade too. Fire Shield kicks ass though.

Pit Lords and Demons are both average units and have terrible upgrades. Cerberus has great specials (no retal 3 way) but the damage range is waaay too big. Needs to be blessed to make any real difference. Gogs and Imps suck... Gogs are weak and have a questionable upgrade that can damage your own units and Imps are completely useless except maybe for draining mana during a siege.

The special buildings are o.k. except for Castle Gate, which is rarely useful. Town Portal makes it useless. Grail Effects suck too (Imp week? Really?)

The starting costs are pretty cheap and it's easy to get Pit Lords and Efreet in week 1. Forsaken Palace is very expensive though.

Heroes and Mage Guild are both average.

Overall, 6th place. It's only marginally better than Fortress.


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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted August 25, 2012 11:58 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 11:59, 25 Aug 2012.

Actually the Arch Devils beat all other upg. level 7s, except the Archangels in a stack vs. stack fight. In a real combat their low HP are problematic mostly if the opponent has powerful direct-damage spells - in all other cases their Defense is pretty sufficient to reduce the damage from the enemy attacks + nobody retaliates to them so they spare themselves some extra damage which all other level 7s (save the Hydra) receive. One of the most underappreciated creatures in the game, really.
Quote:
The special buildings are o.k. except for Castle Gate, which is rarely useful.
Uh... OK.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted August 25, 2012 12:07 PM

Well said, Zenofex.

Quote:
Dread Knights and Naga Queens can easily take out a larger group of Archdevils.

Use wait.

Quote:
Pit Lords and Demons are both average units and have terrible upgrades.

The Pit Fiend -> Lord upgrade could be argued to be the best upgrade in the game. Demons are average units for a good reason. Otherwise Inferno would be overpowered.

Quote:
Cerberus has great specials (no retal 3 way) but the damage range is waaay too big. Needs to be blessed to make any real difference. Gogs and Imps suck... Gogs are weak and have a questionable upgrade that can damage your own units and Imps are completely useless except maybe for draining mana during a siege.

Demon fodder.

Quote:
The special buildings are o.k. except for Castle Gate, which is rarely useful. Town Portal makes it useless.

No movement cost, no mana cost, works without an active hero, IIRC, or at least works with a hero only meant for defending, i.e. doesn't require any levelling.

Quote:
Grail Effects suck too (Imp week? Really?)

It's not the best grail, but it means a lot more demon fodder, I believe.

Quote:
The starting costs are pretty cheap and it's easy to get Pit Lords and Efreet in week 1. Forsaken Palace is very expensive though.

I tend to find it easy to get both Devils and Castle in week one without having to do much fighting, unless there's almost no mercury on the map. The week 1 army is usually, at least for me, just enough to take down another forsaken palace as well.

Quote:
Heroes and Mage Guild are both average.

No doubt the heroes aren't very good. Actually I think they're very bad. I'd much rather have a barbarian. However how can the mage guild be average? There are 4 types of mage guilds: Tower's +1 and level 3-5. Inferno's is not only a level 5 mage guild, but I believe you can also get armageddon there, which works wonders with efreeti sultans. Not as good as Dungeon's though.
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Living time backwards

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 25, 2012 12:56 PM

You have diffrent chances of getting certain important spells in the diffrent guilds. Inferno has an average guild but at least has a high chance of getting slow. Ramp and flux have the best guilds.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Titowam
Titowam


Hired Hero
posted August 25, 2012 06:09 PM

OFF: First post from my user, yay!

ON:
- Advantages
Pit Lords can create Demons permanently, good-looking town if your into that sort of stuff, Efreet Sultans (?) have a strong fireshield.

- Disadvantages
Devil / Arch Devil is absolutely terrible, all monsters have terrible health and attack..

- Best creature(s), with explanation why, e.g tactical usefullness
Pit Lords, due to the fact that they can generate Demons out of their dead allies.
Together with the Cerberi, which can attack up to 3 monsters at once.

- Worst creature(s), with explanation why, e.g too low stats..
Imps. Holy crap, do I have to explain? Annoying as hell if you have only like 50~ but gets good if you have around 200-300 at the start.. but that doesnt hold for long (if you have them upgraded)
Also, gogs. Magogs are good for their fireball attack but not that well. After all, they are only level 2.

- Special buildings
None, really.

- Building order (good, too slow....etc..)
Nothing special.

- Hero classes (donīt refer these classes ONLY to this specific town, but perhaps they are more usefull with other towns)
Can't talk alot about this, I don't really pay much attention for that.

- Good / Bad on what kind of maps
Can't talk about this either.

- OWN subjective rank in a townranking, from 1st (best) to 9th (worst)
I'd say about 6th or 7th.


After all, I have been playing for quite a few years (6~) but I still havent learnt all the strategies or whatever. I only just for 2 weeks ago learnt what skills are good and bad for what.
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