Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Best Unit in Heroes 1 or 2
Thread: Best Unit in Heroes 1 or 2 This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT»
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted March 08, 2006 08:47 AM

Best Unit in Heroes 1 or 2

Hi all.

This is a topic that I made just to see what the best unit that you think in Heroes 1 or 2.

I would like a reason why you like it aswell.

Well can't wait for your replies people

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Evil_Warrior
Evil_Warrior


Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
posted March 08, 2006 04:14 PM

GHOSTS!!

Their life drain ability is much more ExtrEmE than just Vampire Lords!!!
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted March 08, 2006 10:48 PM

ghosts are broken yes.    once you get them going, by say, slaughtering a group of peasants, they are completely unstoppable.  

but if you don't count ghosts, its a tie between black dragons and titans in h2.   black dragons because they are immune to magic.   however i like titans because they are ranged so in general you can take 0 losses in any battle (mass slow, blind, etc) whereas you could POTENTIALLY lose a dragon.   i'm not sure if you can ressurect titans, but i know you can mirror image them, for double the destruction.   i like the fact that they are immune to certain spells, specifically blind and paralyze, but you are still able to cast beneficial magic on them (bless, bloodlust, slayer, mirror image, etc)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
mvassilev
mvassilev


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 08, 2006 11:12 PM

Best of H1:
L1: Sprite
L2: Gargoyle
L3: Griffin
L4: Ghost. Otherwise, Druid (acts before Phoenix!).
L5: Troll
L6: Dragon
Overall: Ghost.

H2:
L1: Skeleton if Necro. Otherwise, Sprite.
L2: Ranger
L3: Grand Elf
L4: Roc
L5: Champion
L6: Titan or Black Dragon. They're both good.
Overall: Ghost.
____________
Eccentric Opinion

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted March 09, 2006 08:22 AM

Quote:
ghosts are broken yes.    once you get them going, by say, slaughtering a group of peasants, they are completely unstoppable.  

but if you don't count ghosts, its a tie between black dragons and titans in h2.   black dragons because they are immune to magic.   however i like titans because they are ranged so in general you can take 0 losses in any battle (mass slow, blind, etc) whereas you could POTENTIALLY lose a dragon.   i'm not sure if you can ressurect titans, but i know you can mirror image them, for double the destruction.   i like the fact that they are immune to certain spells, specifically blind and paralyze, but you are still able to cast beneficial magic on them (bless, bloodlust, slayer, mirror image, etc)



I agree with what u r saying about the Titans. You can ressurect Titans, because i have done it countless times because they are my fav unit and sometimes they have died.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 09, 2006 07:14 PM

Definitely Black Dragons. Magic was overpowered in HOMM1&2. Units had too little hit points and they cost too much, so offensive spells were much more effective. Dragons magic immunity definitely helped with this issue.

You can resurrect titans? Well, AI's favorite trick was to cast lightning on your titans just before retreating.
And before you had resurrect, you had a VERY hard time fighting the AI, because 1-2 lightnings took one titan out.

My biggest problem with titans was that AI ALWAYS casted a big offensive spell on them, then retreated.

Black dragons did't have this problem. As soon as you got 1 of 2 mass spells like elemental storm or armageddon, the game was over.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted March 11, 2006 06:14 AM

I didnt really have the problem with the AI casting lightning and then retreating.
The AI did cast lightning, but becasue my Titan numbers were big (maybe 50 and onwards), I just simply wiped them out before they could have retreated.
This worked for me alot, and it still does I suppose.

Black Dragons didn't have that problem I agree, but usually I stuck with the Titans.
I actually used to love Blck Dragons in the demo, but when I got the full version of the game, then my interest staring changing towards the Titans, and I love them.

They are powerful, tough are immune to certain spells, that the AI cast stupidly and always target the higher level units, so that is good.
They are also a ranged attacker and I love ranged attackers, because i can stay were i am and just keep hitting the computer, while they are still coming to me, and I kill them before they can do hand-to-hand combat against them.

I still think Titans in Heroes 2 (and Heroes 3) RULE.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted March 12, 2006 11:47 PM

regarding the whole lightning bolt on titans thing, it would require a pretty high spell power for the ai to actually take down more than 1, since they have 300 hp.   by that point, you should have a pretty decent sized stack of titans, like 10 or so.   also, if you are on the attack, it shouldn't matter, because you get first move (unless your opponent has champions or phoenix), so if you really wanted to, you could cast anti magic shell on them round 1.

but yeah that's single player preference.   i never played multiplayer.  i would much rather fight a horde of titans (mass curse, mass slow, meteor shower, etc) than a horde of dragons though.  

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 13, 2006 06:22 PM

SO? A powerful spell caster (with power at laest 12), can easily take 1 or 2 titans with lightning bolt (25 x pwr of direct damage). After all, even if your big fire-breathing lizard is in h-t-h combat, fear not to cast chain lightning on a closest creature.
________________________________________
But I think that the best is phoenix or champion, cause you get to strike first, which often is vital if you want to cast a mighty spell.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 13, 2006 06:53 PM
Edited by Russ on 13 Mar 2006

Quote:
regarding the whole lightning bolt on titans thing, it would require a pretty high spell power for the ai to actually take down more than 1, since they have 300 hp.   by that point, you should have a pretty decent sized stack of titans, like 10 or so.   also, if you are on the attack, it shouldn't matter, because you get first move (unless your opponent has champions or phoenix), so if you really wanted to, you could cast anti magic shell on them round 1.

but yeah that's single player preference.   i never played multiplayer.  i would much rather fight a horde of titans (mass curse, mass slow, meteor shower, etc) than a horde of dragons though.  
I guess you haven't played many difficult maps on 200% difficulty. On my favorite maps the enemy magic heroes like warlocks (they start with 3 spellpower) start next to about 5-10 chests. After they pick it all up they have 6+ spellpower. And that's on day 1. When you are playing on 200% difficulty, you can't really build 100000000 titans on week 1. By the time you get your first titans they'll be able to kill at least a few of those with their lightnings, and lightnings aren't the worst thing that can happen! AI builds its mage guild fast as hell on 200%, so they'll often have chain lightning. AI has np suicide attacking you with elemental storm or arma if it gets those. It is even worse if the AI gets dragons + those spells.

That's one thing I really miss about HOMM2 - AI ruled in those games.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted March 13, 2006 09:43 PM
Edited by fishjie on 13 Mar 2006

yeah i've played the hardest difficulty before.    sure you wont have a titan by week 1, but you won't have black dragons by then either.   i dont remember the prices, but i'm pretty sure going green, red, then black is a lot more costly.   at the very least, it'll take you one extra turn.

i'm sure black dragons are better in multiplayer, because magic is so good, but in single player, titans suit my style of play.  i like ranged units.  they are really good in h2 (no half damage nerfing like in h3) and basically allow you to win battles with 0 losses, even against an enemy hero (given first move and say mass haste).  and once i get titans, all my lesser ranged units are protected, since enemy archers ALWAYS target the strongest ranged unit (an easily exploitable thing with the ai).  this is really helpful in siege assaults, since the towers ALWAYS hit the titans.   this protects my halflings and archmages and allows them to put the hurt on.  sure they might bolt the titans, but this lets my halflings and archmages grow to dangerous sizes, especially since halfling dwellings dont reset each week.

yeah the ai does like its elemental rain / armagedon suicides.   but titans have a speed of very fast (only champions and phoenix are quicker), so with first strike, most of the times you can prevent it. they only do that when they are gonna lose the fight, or if they are badly outnumbered.   if they are outnumbered you should be able to knock em out before they can even make a move.

but this is single player.   in mp, i'm guessing magic immunity is vital

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 13, 2006 09:55 PM

Okay, let's do a little calculations. A strong warlock hero with power of 15 and the lightning artifact (sorry, forgot the name) will deal 25 x 15 x 150% dmg. That's about 565 dmg = almost 2 titans dead.With chain lightning, you deal 1500 dmg (5 titans) if titans are the first target.

I prefer the phoenix to actually be able to cast these spells. ;-)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 13, 2006 10:53 PM

All it really needs is spellpower of 6 and enough army to survive 2 turns. If the AI mage hero has lightning you are guaranteed go lose 1 titan.

And the reason I mentioned 200% is to point out the fact that by the time you build titans, most AI heroes WILL in fact have more than enough army to survive 2 rounds of combat.

I rarely hired mages in my games, btw, because they were insanely overpriced. 20 gold per hit point - that's too much for something that can be killed with one magic arrow. Titans cost less, they are much stronger and they won't be killed by an occasional magic arrow from a retreating scout.

Dragon's Town was superior to Titans' in almost every way.
1) Your starting dungeon units allowed you to fight shooters on day 1, sometimes with no losses.
2) It had +500 gold/day structure.
3) Hydras were the strongest level 5 unit, yet they were really cheap and had an awesome special. You can't possibly hope for a better town-sitter. A magic hero to kill the shooters + a decent stack of hydras to smoke anything that dares to fly inside the walls.
4) Dragons are cheaper and stronger than titans. Titans = 5000 gold, dragons = 4000. Dragons did much more damage and unlike titans they couldn't be killed by the whimpy heroes with strong spells. So, instead of praying to the AI gods every time you fight ("please, please, please, cast steel skin instead of lightning!!!") you would be methodically smoking his stacks 1 by 1 (or even 2 at a time with firebreath!) without him having no chance whatsoever.

I've actually defeated the AI quite a few times on Broken Alliance 200%. The purple hero in the last castle was obviously not supposed to be able to reach you, but sometimes you'd have to fight a powerful spellcaster with 6 titans, DD and resurrect early week 2. (no wonder they had the word "broken" in the map's name). The only reason I was able to beat him was because I used lightning-lightning, retreat tactics on his titans. If he has black dragons I would definitely be toast.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
fishjie
fishjie


Adventuring Hero
posted March 14, 2006 02:05 AM
Edited by fishjie on 13 Mar 2006

well a lot of it has to deal with who gets the initiative.     like i said, anti magic shell works wonders if you have first move.  but i'll just break down what i'm thinking (single player)

versus wandering mobs:
titans win hands down.  mass slow, mirror image, and blind mean 0 losses always (especially since wizard gets 3 ranged units).  period.   dragons are tough but with meelee there is always the risk of losing a unit.

versus enemy heros:

if enemy hero has low spell power, titans again win because mass slow is going to cripple the computers ability to counter your titans.  they will basically be able to wipe out the entire army without taking a single loss.   again dragons are tough but meelees take losses more so than ranged.

if enemy hero has high spell power, black dragons win.  however, if you are the one who attacked, due to very fast attack speed of titans, you will get first round, so  you can fire off an anti magic on your titans.

versus each other:
who goes first is huge.   if titans go first, they can anti magic and then attack dragons, weakening them.   when dragons fly over and attack, they will get hit by retal as well, and titans have no meelee penalty.   at this point, the gap in stack sizes should favor titans.  

however if dragons go first, you can get off a Chain lightning / elemental rain /Meteor Shower/Armagedon, and then strike.   pretty devastating.   game over at that point.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Russ
Russ


Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
posted March 14, 2006 06:34 PM
Edited by Russ on 14 Mar 2006

And may I wonder where you get all those spells you've mentioned?

About anti-magic - black dragons have it precast at the beginning of the game So, a warlock will have an additional spell he can cast. And he doesn't even need to find the spell first (which isn't very easy to find).

Anyways, this whole discussion is going nowhere. I am sure you can beat the AI as the Wizard. I mean: I've beaten the most difficult maps as a Knight, so I don't doubt it is possible with a Wizard. I just noticed that after I switched from Wizard to Warlock, I started winning much much much earlier and the games went much more smoothly.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 14, 2006 07:54 PM

A lousy hero with power 8, LB, and the artifac that increases lightning damage, or with power 12 and without the artifact, can kill one titan. What's the discussion about?
EOT

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
william
william


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
posted March 15, 2006 04:27 AM

This topic is about what you all think the best unit is in Heroes 1 or Heroes 2, it isnt about spells

I still stand by my original decision of the Titan being the best unit in Heroes 2.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
ComradeX
ComradeX


Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
posted March 15, 2006 02:12 PM

For HOMM I definitly the Dragon. The game just made it to powerfull! it is hard to kill, fast, strong and has the best stats of the game. The growth rate is not high but it is quite enough. Nothing comes close to the Dragon. The Phoenix, despite being ultra fast, is weak. The Cyclop is slow and week, the Paladins, well... only the groth rate and the low price are this units advanteges. The problem with dragons, accept the fact that they are so strong that they can throw the game out of balance when in the numbers, is that it takes a lot of time and resources to reach the stage when you can build the dragon tower.
So as for HOMM I, Dragons reighn supreme.

As for HOMM II, the introduction of the wizard and the Titan (my altime favorite unit) turns the tables. We all know what is the choice fo the game's best: Titan or Black Dragon. The Black Dragon's only advantegea are the high damage and the immunity to harmful spells, but I think that the Titans higher stats (even if only by 1 point), partial immunity (immunity to some harmfull spells but not to beneficial spells), and ranged attack are more than enough to compensate. Tacticaly speaking, the Titan, being ranged, is more effective, and the Black Dragon's user's favorite strategy of "smack'em with the mighty Black Dragons first" is going to turn the Black Dragons into cannon folder at large scale battles as even if you manage to kill one of the enemy's stacks the others will just swarm you before you can escape.
The Titans, on the other hand, can attack from the relative safety of your own lines, thus the are less likely to die (even if the comp uses lightning on them). Another thing is the building requirments. To get Black Dragons you have to build 3 Different towers, that get more and more expensive as you progress. To get Titans you have to build one relatively cheap cloud castle, and another expensive upg. cloud castle. Yes the upg. one is  ******* expensive but you have to build only 2, not 3.
So my choice is the Titan.

P.S: in both games the ghost can be considered best. The ghost's ability to feed on the enemies dead is one of the best abilities of the game. To bad the later games had abandoned that type of ghost.
____________
The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
supersonic
supersonic


Famous Hero
being digested. E=mc^2, s=vt
posted March 15, 2006 08:27 PM
Edited by supersonic on 15 Mar 2006

You are right, fellow. I can agree that a fast hero that casts antimagic on titans will win the battle, especially when there are huge armies. But I can't agree on one point. You said that 2 cloud castles are less expensive than 3 towers. I am sorry - they are about the same prize. Let me put it this way - each cloud castle costs 12,500 gold, 5 wood, 5 ore and 20 gems. That's 25,000 gold, 10 wood, 10 ore and 40 gems for upg. cloud castle. Now dragons - 15,000 gold, 30 ore, 20 sulphur for green tower, 5,000 gold, 5 ore, 10 sulphur for red an black. That's 25,000 gold, 40 ore and 40 sulphur in total - a bit more expensive. Now, Titan costs 5000 gold, Dragon costs 4000 gold. That balances everything. I prefer the dragons, because The whole price is nicely divided - once you have green tower, it's easy. Also, on maps with less wood, it will be harder to build titans. For dragons, you need ore. Now, old sport, let's say that your main hero happened to be barbarian - titans will definitely lose, as you don't have the antimagic and must rely on pure force. Let's also say that neither of you has any stats - no spell power, knowledge, attack and defence. As it is said on AOH - fire breathing lizards win. So it's 2:1. Titans only win when you have magic, while you opponent doesn't. OKAY EVERYBODY END OF DISCUSSION ABOUT TITANS AND DRAGONS.
PS: I still insist that Phoenix is the best - you will get to cast the spell.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
ComradeX
ComradeX


Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
posted March 15, 2006 08:42 PM

Yes supersonic, I agree that Black Dragons are a bit stronger, and statisticaly win in a one on one battle with the Titans, and yes, if you play as a barbarian hero with no magic and no stats, Black Dragons may be better, but it is not very likely that an advanced, almost fully built Wizard town will employ a barbarian hero with no stats.
As for tactical benefits, as I said before the Titans are better.
LET THAT BE THE LAST COMMENT ON "WHO IS BETTER TITANS OR BLACK DRAGONS" TOPIC, PLEASE. OTHER UNITS EXIST TO YOU KNOW!
____________
The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0676 seconds