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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: A noobish thing to do is.........
Thread: A noobish thing to do is......... [ This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 (6) 7 8 9 10 11 ]
angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted September 28, 2007 07:45 PM

Quote:
My point actualy is taht I need more online gaming but without the basics when playing against expert players I wont have a chance.
correct. that's why u should look out for veterans who won't have a problem playing with newbies and teaching them some stuff. There are 2 main reasons why veterans dislike palying newbies:

1. They quit the game pretty often coz they think a veteran plays sooooo slowly. ("Press end turn! What are you doing there? Your turn already lasts 1 minute!!")

2. They often call veterans "cheaters", coz they see their main hero in tavern start week 2 with stats around 10-7-5-5, and then also leave the game.


So if u act like the "willing to learn" newbie, you will find a vet playing with u for sure. If u act like the "I can beat the comp on 200% with only using my left arm" newbie, you will prolly jump onto the "ignore list" pretty soon.

Your choice
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted September 28, 2007 07:59 PM

Quote:
Yes, there is still some strategy, but most of the game has been eliminated.
I am eager to know which "most" parts are eleminated when changing from singleplayer to multiplayer.

If u dislike chaining, play "1 hero style", "Natives" or "4 hero style". But playing with "Dimension Door" or "Fly" or "Diplo", like we all did when playing singleplayer (only because comp doesn't complain..) is about the same as if 1 player in chess finds an extra queen, while the other probably does not. Multiplayer is just more competetive. You set the difficulty on 200% in singleplayer because?.....u want a competitive game. Otherwise you would play on 80% or 100%. But how can u make a multiplayer game competetive? Trying to ban hugh luck factors, so the skill has the upper hand, is the only way (in my eyes).
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Night_Heaven
Night_Heaven


Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
posted September 28, 2007 09:08 PM

Quote:
I agree with Night_Heaven completely on this. In my opinion the way multi player games are played sucks. (different wording than NH used)

The way I look at it, if I wanted a rush rush rush game I'd play a real time game, not  a turn based game. I play turn based because I can kick back and relax. If I want to pass by that crypt just because I don't feel like moving all my troops around and messing with it, I can pass it.

And using chaining to clear the map TOTALLY SUCKS BAD. Why should I do something that sucks so bad just so I can win a game? That's not any fun, it just sucks.

As far as I'm concerned the MP style of play has taken a game with a lot of strategy and variety and eliminated half the game. The idea of rushing the opponent is taking advantage of a weakness in the game. Winning the game doesn't necessarily mean superior game play. It only means superior at one specific style of play, there's a difference. And the random maps are designed to support this style of play. The main difference between the templates is richness and size of guards.

The games are always the same thing.....build as fast as you can, break the guard as soon as possible, grab a bunch of nice arts and maybe get some troops/XP/spells from a pan box. Then attack the enemy. When you have a game where a single day's difference breaking the guard can make such a big difference in who wins, then something is seriously wrong. That's not strategy, that's called hack and slash as fast as you can. And whoever is better at hacking and slashing will win more games.

And since a straight "break the guard, get some goodies" game is too much the same even for MP players, there are templates with *TWO* ways to get to the enemy. WOW, now that's variety!!! Or maybe on one template you hire 6-7 heroes on day one, and another template you hire 3-4 heroes. WOW, more variety. But the thing is, you know ahead of time approximately how many you'll hire. The whole thing is completely mechanical. No mater which template, it's still "clear the zone, break the guard, get the goodies, then attack".

Oh, I almost forgot one. Don't let the enemy know where you are or how strong you are. Yep, take the troops and arts from your main to make your hero faster and the enemy can't see you in the tavern. That's just as boring as moving troops around to clear the map.

In my opinion the main problem with MP is not really because it's MP, but because of tournament play. Players want these short games and place too much importance on winning instead of just having fun. I don't want to make it sound like I'm cutting down all MP people because of this. If that's what they enjoy, then great. But it's not for everybody. And too many players have this elitist attitude that they are somehow better. That's a total turn off in my opinion.

The play style is like taking a game of football (soccer) and changing the rules so the first team to score a goal wins. Yes, there is still some strategy, but most of the game has been eliminated.



That is exacly my point.Thank you. Is nice to see that I found players that enjoy the good game not the rushing game for winning points.Unfortunately not all players are like you . Maybe sometimes we can have our own nice and fun homm game.

And Angelito...I never quit a map. Is called fair play.Even if I am in dissatvantage or I cant win I never quit. However...you should see my point.I have seen yours. Good job experimented player

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Gallow
Gallow


Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
posted September 28, 2007 09:25 PM

And i cant even play a normal battle in MP ,i would like to know where you all play heroes III WOG,in hamachi most or gamespy?

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Homer171
Homer171


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 28, 2007 10:01 PM

Original H3 games on gamespy and WoG games on hamachi. H5 on hamachi/ubi. If you have hard time finding games check out the Meeting Players thread in ToH. Many Heroes 3 and 5 players It's been a while since my last game but TotE will bring back my blood thirst
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted September 29, 2007 09:13 AM

Quote:
I am eager to know which "most" parts are eleminated when changing from singleplayer to multiplayer.
The part after week 3-4.

I hope I didn't sound like an ass cutting down the multi players. My entire point is that MP style isn't the only way to play and different people like different aspects of the game. Personally I like fighting 7000 Azure dragons with no losses. That's fun and when I get uber fights like that, the one fight is the entire game for me. It's a challenge to do it and I literally might do the same fight 30 times until I win with no losses. Sure the AI is weak, so I make my own rules, and I usually play with no losses after week one.

To me MP games are a social thing. I like to kick back and talk a lot, and just have fun. And yea, I like to win too, but that's not why I play.
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doom3d
doom3d


Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
posted September 30, 2007 12:04 PM

If You want to eliminate luck factors from MP games, then why You have Utopias and relics in the middle? Replace them by magic wells.
Why do You have Hives? Conservatories? ..Banks?

You just run to have those arties and angels, and have main fight on week 2. The game may be decided by number of hives/cons per player, or total amount of random cash from creature banks, or random relics!
I think that luck is the main decisive factor here, not strategy or tactics.

Anybody plays here no hives, no cons, no utopias, no creature banks?

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Moonlith
Moonlith


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
posted September 30, 2007 12:07 PM

A noobish thing to do...

... Is making a topic about noobish things just to flaunt your own superior knowledge.

I fail to see the point of such topics, specificly due to the useage of word like "noob" (Self-proclaimed-Elitist language).

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted September 30, 2007 03:15 PM

Quote:
... Is making a topic about noobish things just to flaunt your own superior knowledge.

I fail to see the point of such topics, specificly due to the useage of word like "noob" (Self-proclaimed-Elitist language).
No one is forced to post in a thread he/she dislikes.
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Rhodan
Rhodan


Adventuring Hero
from Holland
posted September 30, 2007 06:10 PM

A noobish thing to do...

I got this inspiration from my friend.

Go after the archers of the enemy because they just away dealt damage to your stack of archers.

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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted October 01, 2007 07:37 AM
Edited by SAG at 07:38, 01 Oct 2007.

Quote:
If You want to eliminate luck factors from MP games, then why You have Utopias and relics in the middle? Replace them by magic wells.
Why do You have Hives? Conservatories? ..Banks?

You just run to have those arties and angels, and have main fight on week 2. The game may be decided by number of hives/cons per player, or total amount of random cash from creature banks, or random relics!
I think that luck is the main decisive factor here, not strategy or tactics.

Anybody plays here no hives, no cons, no utopias, no creature banks?


well, some people like to eliminate Utopias and relics from random maps. That's why they play on Balance random template (you will almost never see Utopias on these random maps). That's just the choice of the player. I prefer to play all types of templates - rich, average, poor.

Regarding banning Hives and Cons - MANY players (e.g. in Romanian community) do it with help of my patches. However, again, it's just the question of taste.

If you wish NOT to depend too much on 1-2 days in breaking to the treasury zone - i would advise to try Marathon template. It's LONG lasting template with late meeting (week5-6 or even later).

BTW, Angelito and Liophy - great posts We need to grow new strong players, you know...else game will fade

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Devangle1984
Devangle1984


Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
posted October 01, 2007 02:36 PM
Edited by devangle1984 at 14:45, 01 Oct 2007.

It is very wierd when people complain about cons and hives and utopias and that its all luck and no stretegy, meeting in week2 and bla bla. Ofcourse alternatives are balance and patches. But what some people don't appretiate is the level of playing has been upped very considerly. And taking a full tope in week 2 is not luck either or taking full hives in wk1 or early two either. You don't just goto the tressure zone just like tat in most cases too.There are tough gaurds to beat.

All of these factors are random and when one person lacks something, in most cases than not, he or she will have something else to offset it.

I remember when i started, a normal jebus break was mid week three or early week4 in xl. Since then the game has been pushed so much that now the standard breaks are about early week 2 or even wk1 in very rare cases. The point is that people are more aware of the functions of the game, what they can do with what they have.A lots of factors effect this game, chainin and most importantly what choices you make and how you set your priorities. The joy in this game is not just winning or losing but the effort you put into it and seeing the rewards.I feel very good when i win and the passion i feel when i lose is much greater more often.

Temps like marathon and e2 are still met in wk5-6 because ppl don't play it often.Im sure when ppl play these temps more often, these will be removed too. The first marathon i played, we met about wk6, and this is when i think we broke(me and sag), but the next one we played i broke wk3 or 4, so as i said, its when ppl focus on it, the boundries shrink.

I played black_knight on shaffs worls and he broke early wk4 vs 10 fairie dragons, with no relic arties or anything, this is skill and knowledge about the game.This game did not have hives or cons.

ppl should stop complainin about all these silly things and should spend more time on focusing on how to improve their game than just giving up in face of competition.The most important thing is to have fun. This site gives you all the knowledge u need even for a starter to play like a vet. So thanks to all who has participated in making and updating this site.

And finally sergie your completely right, it is very nice to see new blood into this wonderful game. There are quite a few very tough players emerging and is ironic and when some greats fade, others are quick to replace them.

ps. Yo anders, when are u gonna show your self on gspy, if you do return, then rest assured i will be on weekday mornings as we used to play.

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liophy
liophy


Famous Hero
Bulgarian
posted October 01, 2007 04:21 PM

Breaking on jebus in week 1? even though hipoteticly its possible - when did that happen?

And i dont agree that the standart is breaking mid week 2. Thats the goal offcourse, but it doesnt happen all the time.

Actually i prefer to wait 1 day if the questin weather to break 1.2.7 or  1.3.1. Because in the first case you run out of mana and cant do nothing in the desert. And even more - if the oponent find you - you are very vulnareble without mana (unless you have red orb offcourse, but you cant plan your game each time on red orb). I even didnt count the pottential losses when fighting on week 2.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted October 01, 2007 06:24 PM

Breaking week 3 on E2? What movie was that?
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Devangle1984
Devangle1984


Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
posted October 01, 2007 06:29 PM

well wk2 day4-7 is average, it is an average now aand yes wk1 is possible but in very rare cases as i said. I think so far 3 people have done it. How u conserve your mana and things is entirely on your gameplay, 20 sp for me is more than enough on a wk2 meet to my knowledge, this is counting tat u have mass haste or slow.

Breaking wk3 day1 is not a bad idea, as long as you are taking a tope or something tat crucial.Its not always that the person braking first wins mostly.

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Devangle1984
Devangle1984


Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
posted October 01, 2007 06:33 PM

Dirk yes wk3 break is possible on e2, i did it couple of times, 1 with sag himself and a few more times. The gaurds are not tough like marathon or shaffs world or superslam. But ofcourse if there was sultans or aa's or titans, its a different matter.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted October 01, 2007 06:46 PM
Edited by angelito at 18:47, 01 Oct 2007.

On E2, the guard value from 2nd area to 1st desert is 80.000....on jebus, it is 45.000. The guard value between your and your opponents' desert is 160.000, which means a horde level 7 units, which raises by 10% each week. (Superslam is 120.000 btw...)

You rarely have a chance to build level 7 units first week except stronghold maybe. Money is a big issue on E2, your goldmines are far in the corner of your hugh area, and tough guarded.

So the only chance I see to break week 3 is, u found a bunch full of hives and / or cons, and had bone drags, giants or hydras as guards.

So yes, it is possible, but I guess not more than 1 game out of 20....or u are very very lucky.
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Devangle1984
Devangle1984


Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
posted October 01, 2007 06:50 PM

I did it in the last three games i played on e2, yes ofcourse i had hives but not huge quantities, i did it 2 times with strong and once with ramp, gaurds were thron champs, dreadknights and naga queens if i remember right.The first time i broke without ab's, but had external dwel ofcourse, but yea the gaurds were not high speed ones.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted October 01, 2007 08:18 PM

Level 6 guards....ok.
As long as u can use mass slow, it is fine.
Why do I never find lev6 guards on E2? I'm cursed
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Artas1984
Artas1984


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2007 10:04 AM

There are no "noobish" things, only inexperienced people.


And it's not a "noobish" thing, but only tactical and startegic mistakes those eventyaly come to a cause-failure.
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