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| Thread: Necropolis power deficiency ! |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 23 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 04, 2006 02:41 PM |
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Quote:
-Liches:Their shooting is good.But their size makes them below perfect shooters.They should have some zombie-specter summoning ability from dead stacks.Their aray of spells are rather weak so that they are not used.
I have to say that I like Arch Liches spells, Suffering is really usefull. Dropping Attack by 9 means a lot less damage. Oh And Decay is an exellent choice when the enemy is too far for a full damage shot. They do awesome damage. Their size is a hindrance, but they have good Defence and HP for a shooter/caster. The upgrade is expensive though, so it takes usually time to get them... At that point there might be too many Liches for the spells to be of that much use. A very strategical upgrade IMHO.
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 04, 2006 11:22 PM |
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Shauku I agree with you. I always try to get resources for upgrading liches first if you are lucky you might have archliches sometime in month 2 on heroic (if the ore supply isnt to limited). having a secondary hero fast leveled upp in necromancy and give him liches and vamps or wights, depends on how you play your main hero. Maybe ghosts also or instead. Now you can have a couple of stacks with liches. Using decay and other debuffs will take out most neutrals without any losses. And this hero simply can run around gathering skelletonarchers, well resources aswell off course but skelletons is priority nr 1. That way you get twice as many skelletons in less time. Its very easy to deal with neutral, walkers with a hero like this. Most maps doesnt allow for one hero to run around killing all the neutrals you gotta have atleast 2 off them. In my experience if necro got 2000k skelletons the other player let him go to far. Necro is most vulnerable early game and mid game. Thats why he needs as may heroes gathering skelletons as possible.
Phoenix thats a very intresting idea I didnt read it before. I agree with you. Just look at my text above, necro is about getting as many skelletons as fast as possible, wich is a bit booring.
However I think there are several strategies a necro can take skill wise. Unfortunatley they focus on archers or how to support them. As an example or atleast the two major pathways for me. Enlightment + summoning + sorcery to get better raised dead spell and to use it as often as possible. Or attack + defence + dark magic to boost your own stacks and debuff enemy.
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G3
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 06, 2006 02:01 PM |
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Zombies i find fairly useless except as meat shields for other creatures to use their retailiation on.
I disagree, IMO zombies are great - A big stack of plague zombies is nigh unstoppable with a high defence hero. Also, their weekly HP growth is simply insane being in range of 500-900 HPs per week - Throw in raise dead and you have one mean stack against melee attackers.
Their only problem is low initiative & speed which haste somewhat helps, though, big ranged stacks still make a dent to their numbers.
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Ghosts are a wonderful creature, the incorperal ability is probably one of the best things i've seen so far in H5.
Horribly unbalanced and purely a luck "skill" - Probably the worst specialty in H5.
IMO the miss-retaliate ability is soooo horribly horrible. :-)
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Vampires have been nerfed too much and die too easily, their life steal ability is almost useless.
Indeed. Vampires need to be buffed up.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 06, 2006 03:09 PM |
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Nice post there, Phoenixzs, but you forgot that with spells like animate dead and heroes like kaspar necro suffers nearly no loses early and can do much MUCH more than any other faction.. plus you can rush just with skellies and vamplords, on small maps it's INSANELY deadly! Who cares for strong lvl7 creature if the chance of obtaining frenzy - the best offensive spell in this game - is high? Just frenzy them away and watch how they kill themselves! you want no retal? cast confusion.. there you go.. and no shooting too.. Confusion, frenzy, mass slow.. who needs an army with such spells? Vamplords, archliches, maybe wrights, that's not much, leaving you with lots of gold and possibilities (let's say, taking only exp from the chests resulting in higher hero level..).
Necro is a race for ppl who don't want to get lost in millions of requirements of every unit and feature (hi academy). Necro is a race for ppl who want to a) have earlygame advantage b) crush foes quickly c) crush much stronger armies via overpowered dark magic. IMO, necro is one of the very best castles in the game.
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shassz
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 06, 2006 08:47 PM |
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-Wampires:...Thats not their fault rest of the army should be more powerfull.
The rest of the army is powerfull enough. Liches and Wraiths are toughnuts. Skele archers can break anything.
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-Wraiths:Below average creature...
I think they are great. They have avrage hp for a level 6 and good A/D. They are UNDEAD. If you meet some though level 7 unit you can split them up to 3-4 groups and theyll pose a real threat.
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-Specteral dragon kay I can understand that necro should have a weak dragon or 7th level unit...
Yea I agree, spectre drago is totally useless. Give back aging(like death knight`s special) with cumulative effect and itll make him a superstar.
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Like counter morale,for every 2 morale levels you got you decrease 1 morale from enemy.
Good idea, though a 1/1 is fair enough I think.
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Temple of conversion:It can look good on paper but still remember you have to bring back home...
Get yourself a supply hero. For buying I would only suggest level 1,4,5. 6 is too pricy other levels just dont worth wasting money on it. Join is rare but when it happens you can get lets say +200 vamps. Thats cool isnt it? 
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About raising:Sure raising is good aganist creeps but does it help aganis human players...
Raising your attackers back is great stuff, and you dont have to cast it every turn.
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Necromancy:I think its a bit lame that necro players have to rely so much on skeletons...
Id choose skele raise since I prefer them to spectres and zombies, though its a good idea.
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Plemenit
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 07, 2006 09:21 AM |
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Necropolis creatures need more (passive) abilities to make them fun to play with and to elevate tactical thinking to a higher level:
(Note: lack of new special passive abilities is a major problem in HoMM V- especially among 6th and 7th level units)
1.
WIGHTS/WRAITHS should have;
a) Dreadful presence:
Effect: -2 to initiative for enemy units on tiles adjacent to the Wights/Wraiths.
b) Doom bringer:
Every time a Wight/Wraith strikes a creature its luck is reduced by 2. It's cumulative.
c) First strike (fear based):
Wraiths/wights will retaliate before the enemy strikes them (once per round; instead of the usual retaliation).
It'll negate no-retaliation ability, jousting and rider charge!
That's becouse seeing wraiths/wights makes enemies freeze in fear so this is enough for w/w to punish them before they even act.
d) Harm touch (Wraiths only):
When an enemy stack is harm touched its negative luck (if it is negative) is transferred as positive luck to all creatures attacking it (only for that specific attack!). This 'bad luck radiance' lasts for the next few rounds.
E.g. Rakasha Rani has negative luck (-2) and is harm touched by Wraiths (it's not important when it's touched, the effect of bad luck radiance lasts for few rounds). Then Vampires attack that stack of Rakasha Rani and gain +2 to their luck for that attack.
+
All dark and destructive spells cast on the harm touched unit have a modifier of +3 to spell power.
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(Maybe) 'Negation' effect- i.e. it makes the touched stack immune to all positive spells for the next few rounds.
(That together with current harm touch effects)
e) Chaos strike:
Every time a Wight/Wraith strikes a creature, there is a chance the creature will retaliate against a random reachable (or only adjacent maybe?) ally or enemy.
The chance for a unit to become chaotic and retaliate randomly is 50% (-3 % for every level of the attacked unit above 1st).
--Optional;
d) Ethereal:
Wights/Wraiths have 60% chance to take 40% less damage from physical attacks, 50% chance to resist non-damaging special effects (such as entangling roots) and 50% magic resistance.
2.
GHOSTS/SPECTRES should have also;
Confusion;
Whenever they attack an enemy unit there is a chance they'll confuse it. (Confusion spell; power is 50%* for ghosts and 70%* for spectres).
Initial confusion chance is 50% (40% for ghosts) and is lower by 5% for every level of the attacked unit above the 1st.
I.e. Ghosts attacking priests (5th lvl) will have 20% chance to confuse them (spectres 30% chance).
* The percentage of creatures that will forget to use shooting attacks and retaliation strikes.
3.
BONE/SPECTRAL DRAGONS;
a) Flying charge: (spectral dragons)
Flying over/through enemy creatures does a portion of the normal dragon's damage to them.
b) Bone dragons should also have cursing attack (a weaker version).
c) Skeletal; bone and spectral dragons take only 50% damage from ranged non-magical attacks.
--Optional:
d) Ethereal; (spectral dragons)
They have 50% chance to take 30% less damage from physical attacks and 40% magic resistance.
Bone dragons have 30% magic resistance.
4. SKELETON WARRIORS/S. ARCHERS;
Skeletal
Skeletons take only 50% damage from ranged non-magical attacks.
(5.) NECROMANCY:
Invert places of skeleton archers and skeleton warriors!
Therefore, skeleton archers would be unupgraded creatures and skeleton warriors the upgraded ones.
Becouse the main problem is that massing shooting creatures is much deadlier than massing low-health melee warriors.
Of course, their stats should be changed:
Skeleton archer:
Attack: 1
Defense: 2
Damage: 1
Initiative: 8
Speed: 4
Health: 4
Skeleton warrior:
Attack: 2
Defense: 3
Damage: 1-3
Initiative: 10
Speed: 5
Health: 7
-Nerf percentages for necromancy!
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NuWorld
Hired Hero
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posted July 07, 2006 10:05 AM |
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Quote:
However I think there are several strategies a necro can take skill wise. Unfortunatley they focus on archers or how to support them. As an example or atleast the two major pathways for me. Enlightment + summoning + sorcery to get better raised dead spell and to use it as often as possible. Or attack + defence + dark magic to boost your own stacks and debuff enemy.
Attack always, archery + battle frenzy + cold steel is too good not to use. Also, to gather a decent number of higher level creatures, route Leadership->Diplomacy->Recruitement->Herald Of Death works quite well.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 07, 2006 10:23 AM |
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wow Plemenit all those things would make necro broken ;P Wraights with 5-6 specials? lol? ;p
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Jorthax
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 07, 2006 12:56 PM |
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I'm really not sure which stance to take on the Necromancer faction. There are examples of battles such as Nicolai's army, where the correct tactic allows you to annihilate them no matter what they've got,(500 Spectral Dragons and 17,000 Skeleton Archers) or be annihilated if you use the incorrect tactic.
I do agree that some units need an extra ability, but I don't believe that they're underpowered. I believe that their general inability to partake in an evenly matched battle without resulting in significant higher tier losses that cannot be instantly recovered, is what people are really complaining about. The lack of a battle-deciding factor to take into account... by either side of the field. Pretty much the opposite reason as to why people find Sylvan to be a tad overpowered once all troop types are available. eg. Warding Arrow, Magic Resistance, multiple square attacks, casting, etc.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 07, 2006 01:34 PM |
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Quote:
Necropolis creatures need more (passive) abilities to make them fun to play with and to elevate tactical thinking to a higher level:
(Note: lack of new special passive abilities is a major problem in HoMM V- especially among 6th and 7th level units)
1.
WIGHTS/WRAITHS should have;
a) Dreadful presence:
Effect: -2 to initiative for enemy units on tiles adjacent to the Wights/Wraiths.
b) Doom bringer:
Every time a Wight/Wraith strikes a creature its luck is reduced by 2. It's cumulative.
c) First strike (fear based):
Wraiths/wights will retaliate before the enemy strikes them (once per round; instead of the usual retaliation).
It'll negate no-retaliation ability, jousting and rider charge!
That's becouse seeing wraiths/wights makes enemies freeze in fear so this is enough for w/w to punish them before they even act.
d) Harm touch (Wraiths only):
When an enemy stack is harm touched its negative luck (if it is negative) is transferred as positive luck to all creatures attacking it (only for that specific attack!). This 'bad luck radiance' lasts for the next few rounds.
E.g. Rakasha Rani has negative luck (-2) and is harm touched by Wraiths (it's not important when it's touched, the effect of bad luck radiance lasts for few rounds). Then Vampires attack that stack of Rakasha Rani and gain +2 to their luck for that attack.
+
All dark and destructive spells cast on the harm touched unit have a modifier of +3 to spell power.
+
(Maybe) 'Negation' effect- i.e. it makes the touched stack immune to all positive spells for the next few rounds.
(That together with current harm touch effects)
e) Chaos strike:
Every time a Wight/Wraith strikes a creature, there is a chance the creature will retaliate against a random reachable (or only adjacent maybe?) ally or enemy.
The chance for a unit to become chaotic and retaliate randomly is 50% (-3 % for every level of the attacked unit above 1st).
--Optional;
d) Ethereal:
Wights/Wraiths have 60% chance to take 40% less damage from physical attacks, 50% chance to resist non-damaging special effects (such as entangling roots) and 50% magic resistance.
2.
GHOSTS/SPECTRES should have also;
Confusion;
Whenever they attack an enemy unit there is a chance they'll confuse it. (Confusion spell; power is 50%* for ghosts and 70%* for spectres).
Initial confusion chance is 50% (40% for ghosts) and is lower by 5% for every level of the attacked unit above the 1st.
I.e. Ghosts attacking priests (5th lvl) will have 20% chance to confuse them (spectres 30% chance).
* The percentage of creatures that will forget to use shooting attacks and retaliation strikes.
3.
BONE/SPECTRAL DRAGONS;
a) Flying charge: (spectral dragons)
Flying over/through enemy creatures does a portion of the normal dragon's damage to them.
b) Bone dragons should also have cursing attack (a weaker version).
c) Skeletal; bone and spectral dragons take only 50% damage from ranged non-magical attacks.
--Optional:
d) Ethereal; (spectral dragons)
They have 50% chance to take 30% less damage from physical attacks and 40% magic resistance.
Bone dragons have 30% magic resistance.
4. SKELETON WARRIORS/S. ARCHERS;
Skeletal
Skeletons take only 50% damage from ranged non-magical attacks.
(5.) NECROMANCY:
Invert places of skeleton archers and skeleton warriors!
Therefore, skeleton archers would be unupgraded creatures and skeleton warriors the upgraded ones.
Becouse the main problem is that massing shooting creatures is much deadlier than massing low-health melee warriors.
Of course, their stats should be changed:
Skeleton archer:
Attack: 1
Defense: 2
Damage: 1
Initiative: 8
Speed: 4
Health: 4
Skeleton warrior:
Attack: 2
Defense: 3
Damage: 1-3
Initiative: 10
Speed: 5
Health: 7
-Nerf percentages for necromancy!
Ehm ... I like your ideas for specials for the Wraiths ... but 5 or 6 of them? Don't you think that's just a little bit overpowered? Just considering the combination of Doom Bringer + First Strike + Chaos Strike + Ethereal on the same creature makes me shiver ...
And also, replacing Skeleton Warriors with Skeleton Archers wouldn't work at all. I agree 100 % that a huge problem comes from Skeleton Archers being ranged - but then we should make Zombies ranged instead, and have no ranger Skeletons at all. After all, who'd ever wanna upgrade their Skeles if they lose their ranged ability!?
And btw. did anybody other than me find it strange that Zombies (and Gargoyles) have the Enraged abilit? That's a mind effect, how can Zombies and Gargoyles have a mind effecting special!?
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted July 07, 2006 03:00 PM |
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Edited by dfortae at 15:01, 07 Jul 2006.
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I think all that is required are just a couple changes (not massive amounts of changes).
1 - Skeletons loose ranged ability on upgrade. The upgraded skeletons should just be more powerful skeletons that are STILL MELEE.
2 - Give the ranged attack to Ghosts/Spectres. After all, their hit points are very low and they BEHAVE like ranged because of that. I don't know about you guys, but everytime it's my ghosts turn, I have to think EXTRA hard with how to position them BECAUSE they're delicate. The incorporal ability would just enhance them as ranged units and allow them to get more shots off before death.
I think these are the only 2 things needed to balance. Sure, necromancy will still produce a huge number of skeletons. But now they will be melee and not so overpowering. The ranged attack now applied to ghosts will make the army more balanced AND more powerful.
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 07, 2006 07:06 PM |
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Any Necro players in this thread?
Who are these people with all of these silly suggestions? Necropolis is FINE the way that it is now.
The only, and I mean the only suggestion that I think is worth merit is to make Liches one square large instead of 2X2 (make something else like Wraiths that large I guess) to prevent them from being blocked by high inititive units before they get a turn. They are, after all, Necro's second most powerful unit (second most powerful shooter in the game next Master Hunters).
These suggestions are off-the wall and just romanticized. Make suggestions for balance, please, not godliness.
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Klaital
Known Hero
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posted July 07, 2006 09:16 PM |
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Umm liches are necros third most powerful unit, and best shooter in the game is titan. Also wraiths are already large.
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kreszantas
Adventuring Hero
TOH Coordinator
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posted July 07, 2006 10:30 PM |
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I am glad that this is coming to light, I basically given up on this thread as it has fallen to the point of useless...
Some of these suggestions while they may be very good they are just plain balance breakers.
1) No way should a wright/wraith pose that much of threat to attack BEFORE and incoming attack.
2) Causing negitive luck/morale would be beneficial against Haven but not so much against acadamey (creates a off balance issue)
3) Now maybe Wright/Wraiths have a sweeping attack similar to the war dancers or cerebus may be feaseable (and realistic) to take advantage of the high A/D
4) Shooters, well to those who whine about having too many skel archers or opposite upgrade are plain either not thinking or just stupid. Why then would i have to PAY for the UPGRADE and REDUCE the ability of my stack? Just does not make any sense. Liches/Archliches are by far the most potent ranged unit for the cost (depending on necro skill) that you can get.
5)Diplomacy, dont discount it on heroic i have had many neutrals join and become asborbed into my army as a level whatever creature right then and there maybe play Markel some more and really try to figure him out against "LIVING" creatures.
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Professional Sarcastic, never underestimate the value of truth as being only your point of view.
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Jorthax
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 08, 2006 02:00 PM |
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Quote:
I am glad that this is coming to light, I basically given up on this thread as it has fallen to the point of useless...
Some of these suggestions while they may be very good they are just plain balance breakers.
1) No way should a wright/wraith pose that much of threat to attack BEFORE and incoming attack.
2) Causing negitive luck/morale would be beneficial against Haven but not so much against acadamey (creates a off balance issue)
3) Now maybe Wright/Wraiths have a sweeping attack similar to the war dancers or cerebus may be feaseable (and realistic) to take advantage of the high A/D
4) Shooters, well to those who whine about having too many skel archers or opposite upgrade are plain either not thinking or just stupid. Why then would i have to PAY for the UPGRADE and REDUCE the ability of my stack? Just does not make any sense. Liches/Archliches are by far the most potent ranged unit for the cost (depending on necro skill) that you can get.
5)Diplomacy, dont discount it on heroic i have had many neutrals join and become asborbed into my army as a level whatever creature right then and there maybe play Markel some more and really try to figure him out against "LIVING" creatures.
Spot on.
Something to add. Scenario 4) + 5) comes to a situation where lategame, Necro armies can wait it out on certain neutral stacks in their land. An experience mine. Worth more on a total after the length of most games than anything an enemy scout can give you, but what if you then pick them up. Sure, you could use them against Lv2 or 3 creatures earlygame, but that's the equivalent of maybe 30 weeks of standard growth... no town... no bonus. Adds up in the end.
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Plemenit
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 08, 2006 03:07 PM |
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Edited by Plemenit at 15:12, 08 Jul 2006.
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Quote:
Ehm ... I like your ideas for specials for the Wraiths ... but 5 or 6 of them? Don't you think that's just a little bit overpowered? Just considering the combination of Doom Bringer + First Strike + Chaos Strike + Ethereal on the same creature makes me shiver ...
Yes, what's wrong with having more than 2-3 specials per creture? We're used to few repetitive specials.. but that doesn't make it better or right.
Also, all these abilities individually are pretty weak compared to, e.g., jousting, rider charge, double shot etc. Thus, these abilities are only decent together in relation to the high cost of Wights/Wraiths & compared to some other 6th lvl units. Also, I wrote a note under "ethereal"-> "optional".
Anyway, I am not against stat nerfs if needed (even if it's a highly doubtful need) in favour of additional interesting abilities. But, I think that nerfing the unpredictable necromancy should do the job.
Quote:
And also, replacing Skeleton Warriors with Skeleton Archers wouldn't work at all. I agree 100 % that a huge problem comes from Skeleton Archers being ranged - but then we should make Zombies ranged instead, and have no ranger Skeletons at all. After all, who'd ever wanna upgrade their Skeles if they lose their ranged ability!?
Have you read my reworked skeleton archers stats? Damage: 1, Initiative: 8. Come on, the low initiative and damage would make them weak enough to change places with the improved skeleton warriors. Ahh, an exception of the boring & dull rule in HoMM that rangers should always be upgrades wouldn't be harmful. I would like to keep skeleton archers for the sake of diversity.
@ ZeroXcuses and kreszantas
This widespread attitude "You don't have a clue, I know it better, everything is FINE" among HoMM players makes me sick.
Everything is not fine. Some things (including creature abilities) in HoMM V need an innovative makeover. Many fans are unhappy about the lack of new abilities; especially if their favourite creatures are without ANY! Creatures without (passive) abilities are empty & flavourless; without personality. Not to mention how more creature abilities means more strategy! I know some of you guys would be very happy with complete balance such as all creatures having damage span: 1-1 and no abilities.. that's becouse you're boring people without imagination.
I would like to quote Mantra (Nival developer/tester?): "But from our regular gameplay, we indeed found that Necro is the weakest town of the 6.
Worst tier 7 unit.
Medium to weak tier 6 unit.
Tier 5 is an archer large unit, imagine how "hard" it is to block it.
Vampires are ok, but not a powerhouse.
Ghosts... you can not base on incorporeal ability.
Zombies.. meh.
Skellies are ok."
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ZeroXcuses
Known Hero
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posted July 08, 2006 11:52 PM |
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Your point is?
What a lot of these fanboys are asking for would throw the game off-balance even further than it already is. So what if Necro is weak? In every game, there is bound to be a "bottom tier" faction, and HOMM is no different. I find Necro to be an exciting challenge. Note that Necro has been consistent (in unit balance) since their conception.
-They have NEVER had a great lv 7 creature
-Wraiths are underrated
-Liches are awesome...there are only about three units that can cross the screen before they get a turn (Nightmares, Battle Griffions and...)
-Vampires are fine
-You're not supposed to DEPEND on Spectre's incorporeal ability...it's just a nice add
-Zombies are meat shields for your shooters
-Skellies are your bread-and-butter.
"Boring?" The only unit that does not have a special ability of is the Skelies. This is how it has always been.
Nothing but a bunch of fanboys who want Necro to return to their H4 glory, which only happened because vampires could be raised from Necromancary. Notice how if the units change from skellies, the game is INSTANTLY imba in Necro favor (Shadows of Death, H4).
Celestial Heavens is right. The HOMM community just can't be satisfied.
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Izzachar
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 09, 2006 12:02 AM |
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About herald of death.. I think I have creatures join my army like once every third game. Is there a way except diplomacy you can increase chances of neutrals to join you?
And about attack its nice, however cold steel I never found beneficial. Think it added 90 damage once to about 700 skelletons. I rather spend that ability some where else. Attack is a given choice if its a big map and you can get alot of skelletons. For smaller maps I dont know what is better.. Havent tested it that much to say anything more then that really.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 09, 2006 12:08 AM |
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Plemenit, much as I hate to say it, I don't think you are very ballanced, or should I say reflected, in your views. First of all, saying that some of us "wants to have perfect ballance with all creatures doing 1-1 in damage" is plain stupid (and I don't know whether I was a target or not). Second of all, you have to retain some sort of ballance - after all, you yourself bring up the problem with the Necros being the weakest (according to Nival).
Now, I think there is a general problem/miscomprehension in this thread, that makes a lot of the people here misunderstand each others and cause disagreements. I think it's important to consider.
- Based only on weekly growth, Necros are pretty badly off. They have several below average units (Zombies, Ghosts, Wraiths?, Spectral Dragons), and their weekly growth rate does not do to much to help out on this. This was the cause for the original discussion on "Necropolis power defficiency".
- Based on overall growth - weekly growth + Necromancy - Necromancers are far from badly off - actually, there might be a severe Necromancer overpowering problem.
Of course, a lot of gamers are divided on this. A good point is the comment of ZeroXcuses: "Any Necro players in this thread? Who are these people with all of these silly suggestions? Necropolis is FINE the way that it is now." For the Necro player, there is little to moan about power-ballance wise, with a good legion of skeles or more, you'll soon be nigh unstoppable.
However, many feel that the Necropolis lacks strategic options because of the sublevel quality of many of their units. This is quite correct, Zombies are so slow they will be of very little use in combat except as meat shield, Ghosts are simply too fragile and the incorporeal ability too random to make them usefull melee units, Vampires are usefull but rather easily killed when imployed against higher level units, Liches are increadibly powerfull but a large and very vulnerable, Wraiths have excellent stats but are slow and haven't got the best specials to say the least - and well, Spectral Dragons are only 2/3's of a level 7 unit, even though you do get more of them (if you can afford it!).
It would be great to change some of this - but there is no room for improvements with the huge superpower present with those Skeletons dashing out huge amounts of damage from the back. In order to make the power equation come to some sort of even, the other units have to be next to useless, and even so, it's still not too good once the Necromancer starts to get the Skeleton generation going.
One could easily leave things as they are now, yes, it's just not very ballanced - and the ones getting the worst of the deal is deffinitely not the Necromancers. By taking away the ranged ability from the Skeletons (or alternatively, by nerfing the Necromancy skill), the importance if Necromancy will be deminished severely - and that will make room for improvements - a good number of great and not so great ideas have already been put forward here. Of course, things still have to be ballanced. Granting the Wraiths 4 or 5 or 6 new superstrong specials will not do much good, but 1 or 2 would be fine. Making Liches small is probably a bad idea - they would simply be too usefull, and there is the issue of all towns having 3 large units. And Ghosts and Spectral Dragons might need an overhauling as well.
Personally, I'd like a Necromancy faction relying much less on Skeletons and much more on their full spectrum of units.
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kreszantas
Adventuring Hero
TOH Coordinator
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posted July 09, 2006 12:29 AM |
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Food for Thought
Plemenit
You are blinded by your own point of view and also failed to really look at what I proposed as solution to some the issues you raised...
Everyone discounts Dipolmacy in there overall tactics.
I was one of the top necro players in H3 and was even asked for advise on how H4 was to be developed, this was when 3do still ran the show and I was closely working with ToH (Tournment of Honor), as a game tester, the way they change H3 to H4 was SO UNBALANCED I never even installed it on any of my personal machines nor did I play a single game once the product was released.
Is that what you want? It maybe weak to some but you may have never played any version of H1 through H3.
When I did a screen shot earlier in this thread with 5 luck and 3k skellie archers did 11259 damage to Iron golems at BROKEN ARROW range and that was after they did 9219 damage to the stack of 25 titans.. you do the math and see if that not weak.
But yet again just like H3 you had to protect your skels as they were the difference of the game, they maybe unbalanced across the whole necro town but you can not have a blackdragon quality level 7 along with sheer numbers of skels that can be created, this completely destroys the balance of the game, and those at CH maybe they dont know how to play one as well? ever think about that
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Professional Sarcastic, never underestimate the value of truth as being only your point of view.
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